14 replies to this topic

[curious_sle]

I would like to add some abilities to myself that I am totaly lacking. To be precise i would like to learn play music as in musical instruments. Is there a known way to boost your ability to learn playing a musical instrument and boost your musical talents?
Besides the things that come to my mind like nootropics that are involved in memory or generation of neu neural connections like say, Ashwaghanda.

With thanks

[rhdrury]

I'd appreciate suggestions for this too. Unfortunately the best advice is probably start before 10 and play consistently for 20 years :(
Didn't work for me though.

[xanadu]

Piracetam

Or any of the racetams. It helps hand eye coordination, helps the right and left hemispheres of the brain communicate. It does things you can't really pin down. I saw a post from a musician who said when he was on piracetam he played on a higher level. It will help with memory and learning in general. There are other things that are good too like a balanced diet, vitamins, some choline and so on.

[rhdrury]

Would you recommend beginning/continuing with a musical instrument for cognitive enhancement purposes, or are there far better uses of the time?

[curious_sle]

Thank you Xanadu.

I just want to be more of what i can be. Hence the will to activate other areas of my brain and make other uses of it. Probably not exactly bad for preventing cognitive decline either :-)

[gcurrie]

Would you recommend beginning/continuing with a musical instrument for cognitive enhancement purposes, or are there far better uses of the time?

I have a bias, since I am a lifelong musician. However, I think there is a lot of research into general creative pursuits and their stimulating effects on brain development and health.

If you have a serious interest in music, and more than a passing desire to learn an instrument, go for it. Otherwise, it might just be frustrating - and no nootropic will help with that. Learning an instrument is NOT fun until you gain a certain level of mastery. The vast majority of people give up before that point. (I used to teach guitar, and saw how truly difficult it was to stick with it. You have to have some passion or other strong motivation to keep you climbing the mountain.)

I have not noticed an effect on my playing due to nootropics. However, I see a big increase in enjoyment and analysis of music.

I think Xanadu may be on to something in recommending piracetam, or even aniracetam. I would add that pyritinol might help in integration of new concepts.

I myself would use vinpocetine before any performance, but this doesn't have anything to do with learning.

[xanadu]

Vinpocetine should be used daily. It's like ginkgo but without the side effects. Very true about the fact no drug will make you put in the discipline it takes to learn something. That has to come from you. The piracetam will just make it easier and more enjoyable.

[stephenszpak]

I would like to add some abilities to myself that I am totaly lacking. To be precise i would like to learn play music as in musical instruments. Is there a known way to boost your ability to learn playing a musical instrument and boost your musical talents?
Besides the things that come to my mind like nootropics that are involved in memory or generation of neu neural connections like say, Ashwaghanda.

With thanks

Being a amateur musician I can add a little here.
Plan on 1000 to 3000 hours to get good at just about anything.
Regarding music... if you really want to do this...are we talking
about making melodies/harmonies or playing the drums etc. ?

What instrument?

If you want to flow with the music, I'd stay away from sheet
music for a long long time. At least until you know how to play.

Find a great teacher.

qcurrie had some good comments as well.

If all this wasn't hard enough, what about Non 12 EDO music?
(That is non-Western music.) It is possible to play it. Some people
use a computer.

This guy knows what he is doing:

http://www.akjmusic.com/works.html

Assuming it opens for a non-member:

http://launch.groups...MakeMicroMusic/

Regards,

Stephen Szpak

[curious_sle]

Um, i was considering learning wind instruments... particularly Quena or Siku/Jacha siku we'll see and the music is i think pentatonic and "regular" tonality :-) so yes not exactly the same stuff. Rhytms are odd four westerner ears (Huayño, cueca etc).

Did that help some?

[kerastasey]

thats very similar to what I want to know rhdrury.
I'm 30 and used to play the 'cello but had to give up because I lost part of a finger climbing at uni.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with the piano - just need to shift and rotate the hand more but it's entirely possible to reach all the positions, unlike with the 'cello.

And of course, beginning a new instrument, you learn in such things from the beginning so it's not really different to anyone else - I knew someone who learnt the violin by playing it on his right shoulder with his right hand and bowing it with his left, just to prove that it's arbitrary and has nothing to do with right/left-handedness (he was a bit of a weirdo...). All the left-harnded players found it impossible to imagine being able to play his way as he did imagining being able to play it their way... But he proved it, that it's all subjective.

I'm also having the dilema - Its a hell of a long way to go and a committment to make it worthwhile, specially if youve got quite good at something else.

Sadly I think a problem with hanging around here is that you ge the impresion that there's a nootropic for everything. Unfortunately they doesn't take away the need for a lot of effort and time and hard work. I don't think they even take away the pain and frustraton :{
Perfectionism isn't a character flaw unless it becomes obsessive. But it can be hard to deal with, and take away pleasure if you can't enjoy something unless you do it perfectly.
I didn't have that problem - I was happy to play no matter how badly

I've been debating whether to start for a while. Another problem is that if you play when you're young you wake up one day at 20 and suddenly find you can play really quite well. Somehow all the struggle is forgotten (for exams and everything - childhood is a bit of a fog) and you only have the result. Starting now, all the hard work is a very real thing.

[johnthornton]

rhdrury & kerastasey -

If you start now you will be able to do it well in 10 years, whereas if you don't start now you will probably find youself saying in 5 years time (like me) if only I'd started 5 years ago I'd be half way there now.

But I would probably advise you not to do it unless you will enjoy the process. It's a massive committment (for it not to be wasted) for you to be able to play some nice pieces in the future, which you could always listen to. You need to weigh that against your frustration with not being able to do it, which is probably fairly momentary when it happens.

As for cognitive benefits, directly, for adults, there is not much.
Studies have shown that people who play musical instruments are less likely to develop degenerative mental diseases, but then the same has been shown for playing card games like bridge - the issue being mental stimulation.
I don't think it's a good use of time for an adult to start a new instrument for cognitive reasons.

I'd be interested to hear what the lifemirage expert thinks about the best non-supplement things to for mental health.
Personally I'd really love him to say - yes, other than supplements the next best thing to do is llearn an instrument - because that might get me to do it.

[dtompkin]

I take it this is about playing the piano?
Unfortunately the piano is not really any easier than things like the violin.

You don't need to worry about the tuning with the piano, and you can't put in a lot of the same types of expression (vibrato) that you can with stringed/wind instruments, but that's why people make a lot of false progress with the piano -

Pitch is the one and most obvious thing you don't need with the piano that you need for other instruments, but although you don't need to be able to tune it, if you don't have the musicality such that you could if you needed to you won't progress beyond a certain point at the piano.

It's no less frustrating in it's way, although if you are hypersensitive to pitch it would certainly be the better choice.
But at that age, I don't know - I wouldn't bother. You'll probably not stick at it enough for it to be worth the time and effort you'll put in before you give up that too.
And that would be worse than not starting...

[stephenszpak]

Um, i was considering learning wind instruments... particularly Quena or Siku/Jacha siku we'll see and the music is i think pentatonic and  "regular" tonality :-) so yes not exactly the same stuff. Rhytms are odd four westerner ears (Huayño, cueca etc).

Did that help some?

curious sle

Not much really. I'm not familiar with these instruments. Don't really know too much about tuning
theory either. (That Yahoo group is where you should be if you want help in that. {or its sister
group}) Obviously, if you are blowing into something you can *not* sing at the same time, if
that is something you want to do.

Someone posted this:

You don't need to worry about the tuning with the piano, and you can't put in a lot of the same types of expression (vibrato) that you can with stringed/wind instruments, but that's why people make a lot of false progress with the piano -

With a synthesizer (which is a keyboard based instrument) you should be able to introduce vibrato. I think it is
just the addition of a 3 or 4 cycle wave on top of the original tone, of let's say 440 cycles (or whatever). I'm really
don't want to say too much since I haven't done it. I just set my keyboard to piano and go. But a synthesizer
can make any wind instrument sound. That is if it is *just* the sounds of these instruments that are applealing to you.

You may be able to make enough progress quickly enough to get some satisfaction out of playing in a short time. I don't know.


A great teacher is worth far more than any supplement or drug.

Regards,

Stephen Szpak

[ricardfenton]

Id go for starting the piano and the flute (or whatever curious_sle) you two, but only if you have other peolpe to play with. It makes all the difference. Otherwise very lonely.

[curint]

Vinpocetine should be used daily. It's like ginkgo but without the side effects. Very true about the fact no drug will make you put in the discipline it takes to learn something. That has to come from you. The piracetam will just make it easier and more enjoyable.

What are the side effects from ginkgo that you don't get with vinpocetine? I didn't think there were any with ginkgo.
Is there any point in taking both?
And are you talking about for learning instruments, which I will take it for, or for general cognitive protection?