6 replies to this topic

[oilfieldpilot]

Rick,
maybe you can help here, but please in terms a lowly heli -driver can comprehend!

Galantamine came up earlier on another thread, you said you may start it.
I am taking it for its claims as well as for a particular potential side effect.
You said you are interested in it for other reasons

However, I also take pir, idebenone (lick it!), vin, and theanine.

I also take the Alpha GPC, otherwise my stack seems useless...??

I've read to take a choline with the galantamine, but on my bottle of AGPC, it warns NOT to take it with galantamine!...???

Am I taking the wrong choline for the galantamine? The cheap choline did not stand up to the GPC...at least for the other noos, (pir especially)

SO why is the info conflicting? One says do, the other says don't. (sounds like married couple!)


Thanks in advance!

ofp

[rfarris]

As I understand the world of acetylcholine (which isn't much understanding), acetylcholine provides the fuel for the 'racetams.

There are two ways to make sure there is plenty of acetylcholine for the 'racetams. A straightforward way is to take a choline-donor. A-GPC, CDP-choline, DMAE, lecithin, centrophenoxine, and probably a hundred other ones. A-GPC, CDP-C, and centrophenoxine also have other benefits.

I don't really understand the acetylcholine cycle, but as I have read, acetylcholine does not last forever. There is another enzyme called acetylcholinesterase (AchE) that destroys acetylcholine. Please don't ask me why this process happens -- I don't understand it.

So, the second way to shore up the acetylcholine supply is to inhibit AchE production so that it doesn't destroy the existing acetylcholine. In the nootropic community there are two common drugs that will provide this service. One is huperzine-A and the other is galantamine. Each has other benefits in addition to inhibiting AchE. In the case of galantamine, you get that other phrase modulating nicotinic receptors that I don't understand, but I suspect that it gives you some of the benefits of smoking tobacco, without any of the (manifold) drawbacks.

Now, back to your question about which choline should be taken with galantamine. I don't think that there is any issue between the two. I think that you (for the purpose of providing acetylcholine for your 'racetams) can take choline-donors (any of them), or you can go at it the other direction and take an AchE inhibitor like hup-a and/or galantamine. In my case -- and yours -- I choose both solutions. I take A-GPC, CDP-C, and centrophenoxine to provide acetylcholine. I also take hup-a (and soon to add galantamine) to conserve the acetylcholine I already have, so that AchE doesn't destroy it. I'm taking (what is to me) monster amounts of 'racetams these days (4- to 5-g of PIR, 1- to 1.5-g OXR, 0.75- to 1.5g of ANR) so I need all the acetylcholine I can get.

I think that your confusion about which choline to take with galantamine is not a biochemistry issue, but more of a financial issue. Some of those choline-donors that we've discussed have other benefits. However, one way or another, most of those choline donors would do the job for providing acetylcholine for your 'racetams. For instance, CDP-choline suggests it may help improve memory, glaucoma, amblyopia, etc. Unfortunately, CDP-choline (aka citicoline) is far more expensive than some of the other choline-donors.

So, my point is that any of the choline-donors will work, but if you're only thinking about which choline-donor will provide acetylcholine to spur your 'racetams, then maybe you don't need to buy fancy, expensive CDP-C. On the other hand, it will do the job of supplying acetylcholine, as well as providing other benefits.

If I've made a mistake here, please educate me.

[rfarris]

P.S. Whoops! I just reviewed your original post and see that I blew right past "on my bottle of AGPC, it warns NOT to take it with galantamine." I looked around to see another reference to this, but I didn't see anything. Perhaps someone can help, but if it was a specfic problem I'd expect to see it mentioned somewhere else. Which brand A-GPC is it?

[dirac]

Mostly likely that warning is placed on the bottle since A-GPC, galantamine, and huperzine-a increase the amount of choline that one has at hand, so to speak.

[oilfieldpilot]

Okay, so we're still at square one?

I have a bottle of galantamine (8mg) that has chloline (choline dihydrogen citrate 200mg) added, and another that has no choline at all.

But yes, the AGPC (from Source Naturals) states in Warning...to consult First, if taking acetyl' inhibitors such as....Aricept (which is Rx name for galantamine)

okay, so perhaps it (AGPC) is not saying NOT to take it, but be warned about taking it with the inhibitors....


Dirac: I was told if taking a form of galant that doesn't have choline already added, to take a supp instead...I chose the AGPC
And that's when my AGPC says otherwise, in so many words...?

still confused.

Any problems with 'racetams and galantamine then? But then the issue of needing choline with the 'racetams.....hmmmm.

Rick, I gots the $s, so I's spends the $s too! When ya buy cheap, you get what you pay for, and usually have to take 10 times as much anyway...so event there I don't see the saving$. I'd rather take one than 10...I'm not fond of 'swallowing' a whole bunch... [tung]


???? [huh]

[goku]

I think the precautionary warning is just to avoid ach overload where you get the stiff neck and headaches for some. If inhibiting AchE and loading ach and don't know it, perhaps you could go overboard so the label is a contraindication caution. But we know what to expect, so it's probably different. The nicotinic activity Gal is supposed to have is nothing to balk at. I haven't taken gal yet, but that should be huge. Nicotine is incredbily stimulating. Also, gal is a regulated drug, so if I order gal as opposed to Hup A, I know I'm getting what I ordered and what the label claims.

[oilfieldpilot]

Galantamine is Not a regulated drug...they keep trying but it is not regulated. Aricept is the Rx form, but reg Galantamine is carried by beaucoup suppliers, and comes in many combinations with other stuff, or just the pure form.