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New Forms Of Ice With Implications For Cryonics


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#1 Bruce Klein

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Posted 26 August 2002 - 02:22 PM


-- thought this was interesting...

Scientists Discover New Forms of Ice with Implications for Cryonics
By Simon Smith
Betterhumans Staff


Article

[Saturday, August 24, 2002] An accidental discovery of three new types of non-crystalline ice could lead to improved cryopreservation.

Under normal conditions on Earth, ice usually forms with a crystalline structure that ruptures cells and damages tissues. Crystal formation is therefore one of the biggest problems facing cryonics organizations, which currently work around freezing by using toxic cryoprotectants.

Non-crystalline ice, also called amorphous ice, doesn't damage cells upon formation.

A joint Canadian-US team that included researchers from Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Argonne National Laboratory, National Research Council of Canada and University of Guelph discovered new forms of this ice unexpectedly while studying another form. They reported their results in yesterday's issue of the journal Science.

High pressure

While amorphous ice exists in space, such as in comets, it exists only in research laboratories on Earth, as it takes tremendous pressure and extremely low temperatures to produce.

Scientists produce it by taking regular ice and subjecting it to 13,000 times atmospheric pressure and temperatures of -196 degrees Celsius.

The high pressure required to make the ice makes the process difficult to apply in cryonics laboratories, but the researchers believe their findings could ultimately lead to improved preservation of organs and embryos and insight into reducing cellular damage during cryopreservation.

#2 Lazarus Long

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Posted 26 August 2002 - 03:05 PM

This is a very good direction for pursuit. It is also being approached obliquely by nano.

It appears that there is a kind of alteration possible of the cyrstalline formation possible by altering quantum realtionships at the subatomic level that may achieve this same result without the overt pressure containment necessity.

There have been a few different articles to this effect from a variety of sources. One such follows and I will start scanning the Nanotech Realities listings for some others but don't hesitate to post the relavent ones waiting for me. In fact I have to dissappear for a while again. ;)

http://www.nature.co...1/020101-1.html

New state of matter made
Physicists have created a patterned liquid.

3 January 2002
PHILIP BALL

Posted Image
Supercold atoms trapped in a laser mesh.
© Nature

Physicists in Germany have made a new type of matter by trapping globules of an unusual liquid in a regular array of dimples. They call their creation a patterned fluid.

Simply trapping a normal fluid wouldn't transform it - water in the wells of an egg carton is still water. Immanuel Bloch of the Ludwig-Maximilians University in Munich, Germany, and coworkers worked with something far more bizarre: a quantum liquid1.

Such liquids exist only at very low temperatures, when atoms' thermal jiggling quietens down enough for them to reveal their wave-like properties.

Bloch's team started with a quantum liquid called a Bose-Einstein condensate. This is a vapour of a hundred thousand or so rubidium atoms confined to a small volume by a magnetic field and cooled to just a few billionths of a degree above absolute zero (-273 °C).

All the atoms in a Bose-Einstein condensate behave like a regiment of soldiers on parade. They are said to be coherent, acting like a single giant particle. One consequence of this is that the vapour becomes a superfluid - if it moves, it does so en masse. A superfluid has no viscosity because you can't slow down one atom without slowing them all.

The researchers placed this superfluid in an optical lattice - the interference pattern between several laser beams. The atoms moved easily around the lattice's 150,000 valleys - as if water were to flow up and over the mountains from lake to lake.

As the optical lattice was made more intense - deeper valleys and higher peaks - there came a point where the fluid got stuck. It ceased to be a superfluid, and the localized blobs of rubidium vapour were no longer coherent with one another.

Mott - just

This trapped state is called a Mott insulator. A similar effect can occur in an electrically conducting substance such as a semiconductor, which can be transformed to an insulator if the lattice of atoms becomes too disorderly. The British physicist Nevill Mott first discovered this effect in the 1960s.

The transition is reversible: if the strength of the optical lattice is reduced, the Bose-Einstein condensate reappears. The sharp change between a coherent condensate and a non-coherent Mott insulator state is loosely analogous to a kind of freezing. A better comparison is the way a magnet can become non-magnetic when heated.

But heat plays no part in the change in the quantum fluid - it is driven by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. This stipulates that when atoms get trapped in particular valleys, they must lose their coherence. Their wave-like quantum state is no longer like the rippling surface of a single ocean - instead it is like many independently rippling little lakes.


References
Greiner, M., Mandel, O., Esslinger, T., Hansch, T. W. & Bloch, I. Quantum phase transition from a superfluid to a Mott insulator in a gas of ultracold atoms. Nature, 415, 39 - 44, (2002).

#3 Lazarus Long

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Posted 26 August 2002 - 03:22 PM

And another: ;)
LL


http://www.nature.co...5/020325-8.html

Cool ice simulation
Computers finally catch up with freezing water.

28 March 2002
MAGDELENA HELMER

Posted Image
Cracking ice took six years and a supercomputer.
© Nature


Beneath the familiar business of water freezing to ice lies a process so complex it has taken Japanese researchers six years to make the first realistic computer simulation of it1.

Iwao Ohmine and his colleagues at Nagoya University pinned down water's capricious path from liquid to solid using a supercomputer. They calculated changes in the relative orientation of water molecules from the forces acting between them. After many such calculations on 512 water molecules and "a long, long wait", they finally spotted one freezing event.

The team found that the spontaneous appearance of several unusually long-lasting hydrogen bonds between water molecules in one location is the crucial first step in forming ice. This nucleus slowly changes shape and size until more stable bonds rapidly spread throughout the system, turning the liquid to ice.

Just a phase

The process of a liquid becoming a solid is called a phase transformation. At high temperatures, thermal energy pushes individual molecules or atoms around. As the temperature falls, that energy diminishes, so the molecules or atoms move less and less.

At the freezing point, the interaction between the molecules or atoms is larger than the thermal energy. So the most stable state is solid matter, with a regular, crystalline structure.

Posted Image
Freezing is a bonding experience.
© GettyImages



In simple liquids such as molten metals or salts, this transformation proceeds smoothly. But in water, it is as though the molecules are lost in mountainous terrain without a map - they wander many valleys and passes before finally finding home.

The problem is that water molecules have a penchant for fleeting, orientation-dependent interactions with their neighbours. This means that liquid water can adopt many different microscopic structures separated by only small energy barriers.

Water can move between these without reaching a configuration that triggers the transformation to solid ice. This behaviour also explains 'supercooling' - water's propensity to remain liquid even when cooled well below its freezing point.


References
Matsumoto, M., Saito, S. & Ohmine, I.. Molecular dynamics simulation of the ice nucleation and growth process leading to water freezing. Nature, 416, 409 - 413, (2002).


© Nature News Service / Macmillan Magazines Ltd 2002

#4 Lazarus Long

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Posted 26 August 2002 - 03:25 PM

and for my next trick...

ICE NINE!!! [ph34r]

LL

http://www.nature.co...3/010823-4.html

Water turns to jelly under pressure
Syrupy squeezed water could affect proteins and plate tectonics.

17 August 2001
PHILIP BALL

Posted Image
At a pinch you can make jelly from water alone.
© Photodisc



Water squeezed between two surfaces turns to jelly, US physicists have found1. This behaviour could affect proteins interacting in cells, sediments aggregating in rivers and rocks moving deep in the earth.

Confined between two mineral layers, a water film just a few molecules thick can have a viscosity many times greater than normal, say Yingxi Zhu and Steve Granick of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. This stickiness depends on the orientation of the surfaces relative to one another - rotating one alters the water's viscosity significantly.

This dependence on the surfaces' twist caught the researchers unawares when their initial experiments with oscillating slivers of mica - a clay-like mineral that can be cleaved to extremely flat sheets - generated seemingly irreproducible results. The more viscous the intervening layer of water, the greater the 'shear force' on the sheets.

The orderly arrangement of atoms at the mica surfaces affects the character of the film trapped between them, suggest Zhu and Granick. If the rows of atoms in one mica sheet are aligned with those in the other, this may encourage the water molecules to take on a similar configuration, like eggs in an egg carton. Otherwise, the water molecules may remain disordered.

Theorists have predicted this ordering effect of a crystal surface on the structure of a liquid layer adjacent to it. But contrary to these predictions, the water doesn't seem to adopt a strictly regular molecular structure, as they would when freezing to form a thin layer of ice. Instead, the molecules remain more mobile, like those in a gel.

Zhu and Granick reach this conclusion rather nervously. They are mindful of the 'polywater' scandal of the late 1960s, in which Soviet scientists claimed to have found a new, gel-like, polymerized form of water in thin glass capillaries. The claims ended in ignominy when the 'new' state was found to be the result of impurities.

However, the viscous films cooked up in Illinois are much thinner than those in 'polywater' samples, and have ample support from theory.

The films' influence on the interactions of biomolecules and minerals is not going to be easy to predict, given that the lateral atomic structure of the surfaces seems to influence how ordered the water film is.


References
Zhu, Y. & Granick, S.Viscosity of interfacial water. Physical Review Letters, 87, 096104, (2001).


© Nature News Service / Macmillan Magazines Ltd 2001

#5 caliban

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Posted 29 August 2002 - 12:59 AM

All nice and well, but its use for life extension seems doubtful?

1) The pressures that are necessary to attain the state of amorphous ice would surely destroy the brain?

2) In any event one would still have to go through the crystalline modification stage I ?

I'm not a physicist, so please help me here.

For those who are struggling as well, three further educational links
(in -what is to me- increasing complexity)

#6 Lazarus Long

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Posted 30 August 2002 - 07:08 PM

I haven't gotten to the lnks yet Caliban so I can't comment on them other to say coming from you they're highly recommended.

In regard to cryogenics I haven't been able to stop thinking of them as corpsicles yet. I have however wondered quite often and for many years about the principles of suspended animation and how Adaptive Hibernation could be made possible. The problem for me is that stasis is best entered live, and the better your health going in probably the better your chances of survival. It is only logical.

I think it is crucial to get the storage temps and conditions higher up the scale. I also think that there may be various levels of hibernation possible. We already know how to induce coma pharmacologically. I think that pretty soon we will understand much more about naturally occurring metabolic suppressants that work for species that have evolved hibernation ability of various kinds.

For example I think we will have better luck tricking the body into a kind of Spore than a Crystal. But temperature is a vital issue. So is humidity, and pressure, and catalyst interactivity, steady state nutritive/toxin levels and possibly complex telemetric monitors and computer controls for these.

But that is just MHO ;)

#7 Lazarus Long

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Posted 30 August 2002 - 07:28 PM

Oh and BTW,

Socrates didn't DO question and answers like the Oracle at Delphi, He is the acknowedged father of the dialectic method of philosophy in the West.

He took various propositions, their counter aguments and alternatives and synthezied understanding. He is the person who coined the now clichéd "That which I know is that I know not" He was considered the wisest of ancient philosophers and a true patriot of principle. ;)

One stubborn old codger and a real curmudgeon who was such a Royal Pain in the Ass they ordered his death. He was so pissed off at the hypocrisy of it he made them go through with it. [ph34r]

They've been stuck with the Socratic Method ever since.

It has been known to ruin a tyrant's day more than once.

#8 caliban

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 05:48 PM

Hm... with this one we could do with a Socrates of Chemophysics.

Don't you we have a member who can advise on cryonics in the the "advisors" scheme? I should think an "immortalist" forum would need one.
:(

#9 Bruce Klein

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Posted 05 September 2002 - 06:11 PM

Caliban, we're seriously lacking in many areas of expertises.... as we're still young and growing.. to be expected.

We do have Lionel Vougt, he's an expert on the cryonics front.... haven't heard from him lately.... looks like i'll have to do a little arm twisting.


BTW, would you like to be upped to Navigator Status? I think your participation and help have more than justified the merit. Let me know if you'd like to take on the glorified position. lol




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