14 replies to this topic

[prodigy2020]

Did anyone read the Wall Street Journal article on Friday called "Some drugs work to treat depression, but it isn't clear how" ?

It suggests that pills termed SSRIs (Selective serotonin reputake inhibitors) may be responsible for neurogensis. It suggests that a serotonin imbalance isn't what's responsible for depression, but perhaps the neurogenerative "side effect" of SSRIs can help alleviate depression, and the neurogenerative process happens to require a higher level of serotonin (or happens to boost serotonin levels as well).

The article alleges that people who take SSRIs don't see any effects for several weeks, and even then are mostly ineffective at treating depression. As I've never taken an SSRI, I don't know if this is actually true.

Does anyone know anything about this? Is this supposition that these drugs promote neurogenesis actually true?

[rfarris]

What is neurogenesis?

[exigentsky]

I understand that it is the creation of new brain cells.

[prodigy2020]

Yeah, "the birth of new neurons".

[johnmk]

This is the aricle to which he refers:

http://online.wsj.co...ml?mod=rss_free

[opales]

ads and glowing accounts in the press have turned patients with depression into veritable pharmacologists, able to rattle off how these "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors" keep more of the brain chemical serotonin hanging around in synapses, correcting the neurochemical imbalance that causes depression.

There is only one problem. "Not a single peer-reviewed article ... support[s] claims of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder," scientists write in the December issue of the journal PLoS Medicine.

hmm, this sounds awfully familiar [sfty]

but seriously, this is piece of news is actually pretty interesting.

[spiritus]

Being a user of Paxil for 2+ years now I can testament to these studies. They are extreamly effective in certain people at treating depression. As for neuerogenesis, I also beleive this is true. There was a study showing that it helped certain areas of the brain regenerate. Perhaps the creation of new neural pathways.

Either way, it's a great drug and I am battling to decide if I really want to get off it, I enjoy it so much...

[atp_none]

Did the article -or related studies- mention anything about effectiveness of SSRI's and/or subsequent neurogenesis in subjects that experienced brain damage at earlier stages (i.e. 5-10 years ago)?

[purerealm]

Isn't it believed that SSRIs work the same way as ssr accelerators (tianeptine), through neurogenesis?

[prodigy2020]

Nah, it didn't. There's a link to the article above, by the way.

It'd be interesting to see some real evidence supporting this.

[velocidex]

There's plenty of evidence around now that SSRIs cause neurogenesis in the hippocampus.

For those of you too lazy to use google, a search for "depression neurogenesis" turns up a plethora of articles, such as
http://faculty.washi...dler/hipnd.html
and
http://www.biopsychi...m/newbraincell/

[jeromewilson]

I remember I met the most amazing guy once, he was working as a locum doctor in London and was from a well heeled family. He actually took time to talk to me and listen, was understanding and gave full explanations without being patronising. It's hard to explain but I'll never forget that meeting and, unfortunately, will always judge other doctors by his standards.

The reason my ramblings are relevant is that he told me he'd been in a very bad car accident a couple of years earlier and had suffered extensive brain damage, leaving him in a near vegetative state. Presumably because of connections and a willingness to pay a great deal of money he received top class treatment in the US, the crux of which was a daily 70mg dose of fluoxetine. It had obviously been very effective because he was eloquent and, of course, working as a doctor.

Anyway, anecdotal, but I thought I'd mention it.

[~ prometheus ~]

am too lazy to look at the references, but what i've previously read, this is said to account for the slow onset of the antidepressant effect i.e. neurogenesis of hippocampal regions takes around 2 weeks to commence. also, i can't remember what it's called but there's a neuronal growth factor... knockout mice for this growth factor don't demonstrate any improvement with SSRI treatments.

[johnmk]

BDNF (Brain Derived Neutrotrophic Factor) is what you refer to, I believe, ecco. It seems that achieving Aristotle's "Eudaimonia," i.e. flourishing, can increase it. Exercise appreciably, eat healthily, feel well, constructively challenge your mind, etc. SSRI's apparently subdue the alarm bells and whistles in one's brain and allow routine maintenance, repair, and adaptation (collectively BDNF) to commence with higher priority. Particularly in combination with optimization of physical activity and diet, BDNF might be even more strongly increased. Indeed, studies bear this out.

[bipolar]

I took effexor for ten years, but finally quit about six months ago, because I was tired of the side effects. Anyway, it seems like I was at least twice as smart when I was on it, than I am now. Maybe it is just a matter of not being able to think clearly due to being too stressed out all the time now, but I swear my brainpower seemed to be much stronger on effexor. I am going to give Tianeptine a try, so maybe that will have a positive effect.