10 replies to this topic

[ta5]

Let's say I need to supplement a certain amount of iron in order to keep my ferritin in the normal range.

 

What's the best or healthiest way to take it? Like, to minimize peroxidation, or other negatives.

 

Single or divided doses?

Time-Release?

Best time of day?

With food or on an empty stomach?

With Vitamin C or not?

With or without anything else?

Best form? Examples:

• Ferrochel (Bisglycinate)
• SunActive (Ferric Pyrophosphate)
• Citrate
• Bile Salts
• Bovine Ferritin
• IronAid (Iron Protein Succinylate)
• Ferrous Fumarate
• Iron Carbonyl
• Curry Leaf Extract
• Spatone (Iron Sulphate mineral water)
• Red Meat
• Blackstrap Molasses
• Other food sources?

[Dorian Grey]

Most in the know believe natural heme iron from red meat is the best source and best method to boost iron.  

 

From what I've read, iron (particularly non-heme) is only absorbed in the acidic part of the duodenum, so I can't see how time released might work.  Once past the duodenum, iron becomes an inflammatory toxin to the colon causing many of the side effects reported by pregnant females who are all too often prescribed high doses of non-heme iron found in prenatal vitamins.  

 

Adult males (and post menopausal females) are rarely deficient in iron, so when iron deficiency anemia occurs in these populations it is important to look for any source of bleeding that might be going on, usually in the GI tract.  Colon cancers in particular are known to slowly ooze blood into the colon, hence the "occult blood" fecal testing for colon cancers.  

 

Adults who find themselves anemic should also look to the anemia of chronic disease also known as the anemia of inflammation as a possible cause.  Inflammation causes the liver to dump hepcidin into the blood which stops ferroportin from transporting dietary or supplemental iron from the GI tract to the body in a desperate attempt to sequester iron, which the body seems to "know" is highly inflammatory.  

 

When the anemia of chronic disease / inflammation is occurring, iron supplements are of little help and only irritate the GI tract, & iron infusions (IV) are often needed to work around this type of anemia.  

 

PPI meds (proton pump inhibitors) are also known to inhibit mineral absorption, and not just iron, but most all minerals.  Acid dissolves minerals and when you shut down stomach acid production mineral absorption is greatly inhibited.   When this type of inhibition is occurring, chelated minerals may be helpful as they are not as dependent on stomach acid for absorption.  

Edited by synesthesia, 16 April 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[vader]

> Adult males (and post menopausal females) are rarely deficient in iron

 

checkout letsrun.com, plenty of males are anemic from exercise

 

tbh i havent eaten red meat for years, while running, eating subcaloric diet, almost vegan and drinking pots of coffee

 

my ferritin was 10 and after 2 weeks of supplementation it got boosted to 43, but then i forgot about it

 

year later my ferritin is 26 (i stopped running and started cycling instead), but now i take iron booster pills again

 

best way to increase iron is imho divide those pills and take 40mg tops at one time and judge by stool color if this is even absorbed (black = low absorption)

 

if you test low then pills can boost your ferritin up very fast, in a month even to >50 so its prudent to take a bloodtest

 

also its important to supplement some liver protection while the body infuses with iron, i recommend ppc and maybe milk thistle

 

red wine boosts iron absorption 3 times, so drink it with iron heavy meals and also try to always add some meat to iron heavy meals (enhances absorption too)

 

cocoa is a good source of iron, but it turns poop into mud, so its better to eat other beans like red beans (+10 mg / 100g of iron). be weary of pectins which block absorption so much that even vitamin c cant overcome it

 

i think the kicker is coffee and exercise, both which decrease iron a lot, coffee decreases absorption by almost 70% and exercise increases body need for iron 1.7x times

 

now for vegans its recommended to eat 2 as many iron as meat eaters, so to add up

 

8mg daily is the RDA, so by my calculation you would need at least 35mg of iron daily to be replete

[ta5]

It's good to know that red meat is best. Thanks for the info.

 

My lowest ferritin test was 17 ng/ml. In that test the reference range went down to 10, so technically that test was not "low". In other tests the range went down to 25 and said I was "low". My other tests and colonoscopy were normal, except for WBC. My hematologist is unconcerned about my low WBC since I don't have any infections. My hematologist didn't have any more ideas and suggested I take iron. That's what I thought was most likely from the beginning, but wanted to get everything checked out to make sure.

 

My lowish ferritin is probably from my diet. I eat no red meat, and very little other meat. Total protein is around 1.2g/kg. I consume high doses many iron chelators, like green tea/EGCG, turmeric/curcumin, milk thistle, rutin/quercetin, grape seed, pine bark, and other polyphenols and flavonoids. Plus I eat tons of oxalates. 

    

For me, 18mg per day of Ferrochel iron is effective. In fact it increases ferritin more than I want, and I'm in the process of figuring out the minimum I need to stay above ~25. Now I'm trying 9mg Ferrochel (1/2 dose) in the morning, an hour before other supplements. But I'm wondering if other forms or schedules would be better, or less hazardous, which is why I started this thread.

 

I tried cacao for awhile, and at first it seemed to increase my ferritin, but then it didn't. There are studies that say cacao should provide bioavailable iron, but then most polyphenols and flavonoids inhibit iron absorption, and cacao has lots of those. This cocoa drink inhibited iron absorption 71%.

Edited by ta5, 21 April 2016 - 01:23 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Adding Vitamin-C to meals greatly increases absorption of available dietary iron...  I've read adding lemon to ice tea is enough to overcome the anti-iron effect of the flavonoids in the tea (sorry I don't have the source).  I expect this would be particularly true with any iron fortified food like cereal, bread, rice or pasta.  

 

A pill cutter might come in handy for supplemental iron.  Better to take a small amount with each meal, than a thumping big dose once a day?  

[ta5]

I'm afraid of taking Vitamin C with iron.

 

Nutr J. 2004 Jan 16;3:2.
Iron supplements: the quick fix with long-term consequences.
Fisher AE1, Naughton DP.
Author information
Abstract
Co-supplementation of ferrous salts with vitamin C exacerbates oxidative stress in the gastrointestinal tract leading to ulceration in healthy individuals, exacerbation of chronic gastrointestinal inflammatory diseases and can lead to cancer. Reactive oxygen and nitrogen species (RONS) have been ascribed an important role in oxidative stress. Redox-active metal ions such as Fe(II) and Cu(I) further activate RONS and thus perpetuate their damaging effects. Ascorbic acid can exert a pro-oxidant effect by its interaction with metal ions via a number of established RONS generating systems which are reviewed here. Further studies are required to examine the detrimental effects of nutraceuticals especially in chronic inflammatory conditions which co-present with anaemia.
PMID: 14728718

[ta5]

I should add... I have been taking over a gram of Vitamin C per day in divided doses for many years. So, for me, Vitamin C combined with my usual diet is not enough to normalize my ferritin.

[Dorian Grey]

That's a good find ta5, & this is something that should be more widely known.  A lot of iron supplements contain Vitamin-C to boost absorption, and a lot of doctors advise this too.  It's no wonder so many report GI side effects with supplemental iron.  

 

Don't know much other way around this other than to boost heme iron, which is far less reactive.  I believe liver is the best source of heme iron.  If you don't want to eat red meat, would a braunschweiger/liverwurst sandwich a couple of times a week work for you?

Edited by synesthesia, 21 April 2016 - 03:16 PM.

[vader]

How is your hair ta5? I generally want to boost my ferritin, because a) it's implicated in diffuse thinning hair, b) supposedly it can cause adhd / depression / low dopamine & rls, all of which i have.

 

Btw, because iron is basically a free radical, that's why we have ferritin and transferrin, so increasing radical creation in presence of vitamin c, means more of the iron will be trapped into storage form.

 

Heme iron comes from organ meats, which have it's problems too, like toxic amount of vitamin A or generally all the nasty shit in meat being concentrated into organs.

 

From my reading the only way to reduce radicals from iron is to take iron chelators, ie. reservatol, quercetin, fiber, oxalates, calcium. Imho replenishing iron should be more of a short term measure, no more than a month or two.

[ta5]

My hair is the same as always. Slowly progressing MPB, NW3. I haven't noticed any difference with increased iron, but hair changes so slowly, it's hard to tell, and ferritin has been fluctuating. I'm sure my hairline won't change, but maybe overall would thicken a little. That would be cool. 

 

I've been tracking my ferritin for about 2 years now, and I know I have to keep taking the iron or it falls too low. After taking 18mg/day for a few months, my ferritin got up to 50, then I stopped iron for 6 weeks and ferritin was down to 25. Now I'm taking 9mg and will see how that works.  

[kurdishfella]

Taken it bisglycinate with vitamin C helped me the best. I think sulfate forms are absorbed better than other because they are more water soluble so they get absorbed in other regions of the gi tract than small intestine better.