36 replies to this topic

[notshorty]

Typing "nicotine vasopressin" on Google scholar or "nicotine cognitive enhance" on Google will give you more info than you'd care to read regarding memory enhancement.

Rather than paying about $60 (after shipping) and waiting several weeks to get a hold of a Desmopressin spray, I took a few puffs of a friend's cigarette (I'm a non-smoker) at about 11am. It provided the brain-clearing freshness, so often described in Vasopressin spray testimonials, into the early afternoon.

Now, although it is stimulating the release of ADH which my body has already made rather than providing an external source - would occasional (2 or 3 x per week) use of tobacco be a sufficient means of obtaining the memory-enhancing effects of Vasopressin that many of you are familiar with?

Yes, nicotinic receptors up-regulate easily, so nicotine use would have to be done with care to avoid/minimize addiction...

NS

[ajnast4r]

. It provided the brain-clearing freshness

also provided alot of cancer causing carcinogens

dont smoke anything, ever... let alone cigarettes. the positive effects of nicotene arent worth the damage it causes

[notshorty]

The carcinogens are a given. I didn't think I needed to mention this, but thanks for stating the obvious...

As I said, I'm talking about 2 or 3 cigarettes PER WEEK. I'm exposed to carcinogens on a daily basis (I live in a major city), and considering that my use (not ABuse) is for academic purposes, I am willing to accept such minimal risk.

Especially since paying for Vasopressin from an international source would cost dearly, and limit the amount of other nutritional supplements I could afford. I am looking into obtaining a prescription for Vasopressin so that I may have affordable access to it.

COMPLIANCE is one of the major dilemmas of healthcare providers. If a patient can't afford a treatment, what good will it do them?

*To state my original question differently; will the use of nicotine to promote the release of vasopressin simply deplete my supply of ADH more rapidly, or will it serve as a welcome boost on a PRN basis?

NS

[ajnast4r]

a few cigs a week is enough to do damage... i would think living in a city would be exactly the reason you wouldnt want to expose yourself to any unnecessary toxins.

smoke away [thumb]

[rfarris]

Why would you use cigarettes to get nicotine when there are plenty of other media. To say nothing of galantamine...

[purerealm]

the added stress of smoking cigarettes will outweigh your memory enhancement

[notshorty]

Galantamine is intriguing. I never considered an ace inhibitor with nicotinic action, that's something I'll have to explore further... Thanks for the tip, rfarris.

NS

[rfarris]

I thought of galantamine at the last minute -- actually I was thinking of patches.

(P.S. You can call me Rick!)

[sub7]

nicotine gum?
wouldn't that be better?

[notshorty]

nicotine gum?

Good idea. Further revising my question:

Assuming that cigarettes/chewing tobacco is too dangerous, and Galantamine is too expensive (for me anyway. I'd like to try ALCAR and ALA in the near future, and my budget is spiraling out of control as it is), would nicotine gum [let's say the 2mg sized Nicorette, 2 or 3 times per week] be an effective means of eliciting ADH release for the purposes of preparation for final exams?

Thanks for the interesting input so far!
NS

p.s. FYI:

How is Nicorette's nicotine safer than the nicotine I get from smoking cigarettes?
When you use Nicorette® stop-smoking gum, you only get nicotine, not the thousands of other toxins and chemicals (of which 69 are known or suspected carcinogens) found in tobacco smoke. This is why Nicorette® is safe enough to be sold without a doctor's prescription and why it's proven in helping millions of smokers quit safely. With Nicorette® gum you get nicotine delivered in a controlled manner instead of the rapid spike and drop-off that you get when smoking a cigarette.

p.p.s.

While it is tempting to respond to this as a "it's bad for your health" issue, I see it as a "quality of life" issue. I have about 1.5 years of school left, and would better serve my loved ones and society at large as a degree-holder. Tinkering with our bodies and minds (which is what we are all doing, by the way) carries certain inherent risks. As an informed adult, I choose to do so as responsibly as possible.

[8)] -off soap box-

[johnmk]

I think the evidence shows that nicotine itself isn't dangerous. I'd say it's as harmless as caffeine, and caffeine actually has neuroprotective properties, which might or might not also be true of nicotine. Of course, the delivery method of nicotine is a big concern. Patches and gum are probably the best.

[purerealm]

But then you go back to 1st base with cost. Patches and gum are pretty expensive I think, and do you think they'd be as effective as an actual nootropic?

[xanadu]

Nicotine is dangerous by itself. They have done studies that showed arterial damage. For one thing, it causes blood vessles to shrink and that's bad by itself. Sounds like yo have made up your mind you are going to use this and are looking for reinforcement. Sorry.

If you want memory enhancement on a budget, try piracetam. Vinpocetine is good too as is alcar and ala or rala.

[notshorty]

Sounds like yo have made up your mind you are going to use this and are looking for reinforcement. Sorry.

Very astute [thumb]

Actually, I've got some Ginkgo, ALCAR and r-ALA on the way. I'm already taking Piracetam, Alpha GPC, and Tyrosine with a B-complex (and a probiotic, Flax Oil, a multivit, minerals, eliminated refined sugar and flour). That's about as much as my budget can handle.

With all that, I doubt I'll need anything else besides adequate sleep. Thanks for steering me clear of an addiction (imminst saves another one)!

NS

[exigentsky]

Nicotine is a dangerous and addictive toxin. I think it would be a terrible idea to go through with your plans.

[notshorty]

Was I too cryptic? I decided not to use nicotine. Sheesh.

NS

[rfarris]

Don't take it too hardly. Some people don't read the entire topic before making their own comments.

[notshorty]

Thanks Rick.

Sorry, exigentsky. I forgot how difficult it can be to discern "tone of voice" when typing. No offense

NS

[notshorty]

Ok, sorry to dig this one up again...

I know that the following is an editorial, but it has made me think that a nicotine patch is worth more investigation (assuming I am not able to get a prescription for Vasopressin).

http://www.jefallbright.net/node/1852

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm being belligerent - really that's not my intent. In the interest of cognitive enhancement, I am exploring the possibility that nicotine (an addictive alkaloid, just like caffeine) may have redeeming qualities.

If you find this topic offensive or contradictory to the "mission" of imminst.org, please just ignore this thread. Thanks.

NS

[exigentsky]

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, only the first few posts.

[hiredavidrnow]

Hey 'Notshorty'

Why not just chew some nicorette or something else that contains nicotine?

Regular cigarette have so much more then just tobacco... if your gonna pick up a new habit, pick up a cigar or get some nicotine gum. The standard cigarette has SO mcuh more then the standard tobacco.


peace

Typing "nicotine vasopressin" on Google scholar or "nicotine cognitive enhance" on Google will give you more info than you'd care to read regarding memory enhancement.

Rather than paying about $60 (after shipping) and waiting several weeks to get a hold of a Desmopressin spray, I took a few puffs of a friend's cigarette (I'm a non-smoker) at about 11am. It provided the brain-clearing freshness, so often described in Vasopressin spray testimonials, into the early afternoon.

Now, although it is stimulating the release of ADH which my body has already made rather than providing an external source - would occasional (2 or 3 x per week) use of tobacco be a sufficient means of obtaining the memory-enhancing effects of Vasopressin that many of you are familiar with?

Yes, nicotinic receptors up-regulate easily, so nicotine use would have to be done with care to avoid/minimize addiction...

NS

[notshorty]

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, only the first few posts.

No problem, there seems to be alot of that going on in this thread. Ahem, hiredavidrnow, ahem...

NS

[mitkat]

^Indeed!

notshorty, I think this is an intriguing idea for sure. I'm going to look into it a little more. Smoking obviously would ruffle everyone's feathers (you want to do WHAT?), but it's worth a thought. I don't smoke, my girlfriend does, and as much as I pressure her to stop, I find myself also using nicotine - as a pesticide, nicotine sulfate!

[robbie7]

(notshorty)

nicotine gum

While it is tempting to respond to this as a "it's bad for your health" issue, I see it as a "quality of life" issue. I have about 1.5 years of school left, and would better serve my loved ones and society at large as a degree-holder. Tinkering with our bodies and minds (which is what we are all doing, by the way) carries certain inherent risks. As an informed adult, I choose to do so as responsibly as possible.

[8)]  -off soap box-

Hi mate,

If you're really determined to achieve good exam results (and obtain a degree) i'd suggest focusing more on whatever it is you are studying than researching the possibility of nicotine patches for cognitive enhancement. It may be an interesting idea, but there are plenty of others which are highly documented and proven to aid memory function.

Also, at the end of the day you've gotta stay healthy, energetic, non-stressed, determined and motivated. Above all, remember to invest time studying the material, to get a good grade. I think alot of people can overestimate underestimate willpower / motivation. It's like people who want to lose weight, if they really have a burning desire to do it, they will. I say be diligent in your studies, less partying, motivate yourself and you will get there in the end, nicotine or not.

Nootropics etc. can help, sure, but if you lack motivation or are tired, it doesn't matter how many pills you take or what's in them.
If you're low on cash, I suggest aiming in this direction a bit more.

Rob

Edited by robbie7, 14 December 2005 - 05:41 AM.

[rfarris]

It's like people who want to lose weight, if they really have a burning desire to do it, they will.

Yeah. And if you stupid people really have a burning desire to be smart, you will. And the flightless folks that have a burning desire will by flapping their arms and flying around like a bird.

[notshorty]

Rick gets it [thumb] .

I think alot of people can overestimate willpower / motivation.  It's like people who want to lose weight, if they really have a burning desire to do it, they will.

I think you meant underestimate, but never mind. I just think your stance is total bollocks. Saying that someone can lose weight if they really want to is just as ridiculous as saying that I could GAIN weight if I really wanted to... I'm a pretty slim guy, and it's just not gonna happen! My metabolism won't let it.

Similarly, the metabolism of my brain has shortcomings. I've come to accept that as a last resort (I won't bore you with the many "natural" ways I've attempted to overcome this).

With that as a given, I am now exploring the many chemical options available. Since I don't have the time/money/desire to do a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on myself with every nootropic substance known to man, I settle for hypotheses, research and experimentation (and more exercise, the support of friends and family, and a better diet).

The imminst forums have been valuable b/c all of you seem to be the most well-informed self-medicators on the internet. Thanks.

NS

[keeton1]

NS, I respect all of your posts that you have put on this board(yea im a new poster, but avid reader(since i discovered this great place a week ago)...I have to say, you are obviously an intelligent individual, but you must not have much information pertaining to the bb/diet department. It almost aggravates me how so many people in america simply say they cannot gain/loose weight. The power of will(in this case applied knowledge of diet and exercise) can and will in most cases break the barrier of the easly stated "I can't." If you would like to base the situation off simplicity.....(this is intended for a understading [DONT ACTUALLY DO THIS ].....drink four large bottles of vegtable oil a day for two months..... the caloric (measurment of energy) intake would be stored as fat(weight)....to make a long story short, you would be very fat(also unhealthy,if not dead)There is no one on earth (at least I hope) that can pass tens of thousands of calories throught their bodies with no weight gain. (again don't do that....veryyy bad)...Same as large people, (no offence...and yes I understand under certain medical conditions this is very very hard) if they droped their callories to say 400/d (again do not do) and also properly exercised, with the correct diet of foot and supplements, they would indead shead weight(a lot) (you could actually base our known laws of physics these two instinces).....you would be buring more engergy than you were consuming, therefore if a person under these circumstances would not gain/loose weight, then I can warp time/space with a flux capacitor, and must live in a different dimension....

[rfarris]

So what is it, exactly, that makes you an expert?

[keeton1]

I'm sorry, who exactly who are you referring to, rfarris? I'm sure you know that you don't need to be labled an "expert" on any field, in order to provide a valid sided argument. ....Just because you have stumbled upon relative instinces, it does't mean that they can be compared(as everything is relative). My reply was ment to supplement Robbie7's responce, not to state than I am a "expert." Again, simply stated...if you burn more energy than you intake, you are FORCED to loose weight. If you raise you caloric intake high enough, beyond a set metaboic bar, you are forced to gain weight....very simple to understand...If you are burning 3 psi/m of propane, but are adding 6psi/m of propane, you end up with a greater amount of stored propane(of course our bodies are much more complex). Again, you don't need to be an expert to understand any subject, as "expert" is just a non-concrete label for high-skill.....which is a variable opinion, unless set in some sort(such as paper...masses minds)....anyways, I do not wish to anger you or anyone else, so please, if you are taking it differently then I feel that it should be taken, please realize, I don't mean to in any circumstance sound mean, rude, upsetting, snide, or whatever you wish to call it, because there is no reason for that ...and besides, I like the contribution you give, and your wish to help others

[keeton1]

...and if you guys wish to read information on the field which would state the point, you can search on bodybuilding.com, bulknutrition.com, probably here, and also search on google.com (skinny guys who feel they cannot gain weight are called "hard gainers") [thumb]