14 replies to this topic

[mnosal]

I am leaving my job in January and going into my Nursing program fulltime. Money will be tight since my scholarship only
has a miniscule stipend. Wifey will be trimming my allowance to less than zero, so I need to find some cheap alternatives.

Would 1200mg of Choline Bitartrate be sufficient to cover the 600mg of Alpha GPC I currently use?

I take 4g of Piracetam daily w/ 150mcg Hup-A (in divided doses). Both of these are dirt cheap, so I want to use a less
expensive choline source. Anyone know about the comparative strength?

[dimjimm]

Unfortunately GPC/CDP appear to be BY FAR the best methods of supplementing acetylcholine

-Acetyl LCarnitine, increases acetylcholine synthesis, however I doubt that the ACHe increase equals that of GPC. Note ginseng, deprenyl, hydergine, and a few other smart drugs also increase ACHe synthesis.

-Not sure about Phosphadityl serine, but the stuff is pretty expensive anyway.

-Choline bitartrate/citrate/etc. are essentially useless for ACHe, because on a healthy diet, its the acetyl-ization moreso than the choline level that determines the amount of ACHe.

-Lecithin is only a little better, as phosphadityl choline passes the blod-brain barrier, but again it just increases choline concentrations.

Anyway You could try ALCAR + a B-vitamin with your huperzine, keeping in mind that you may need to cut your piracetam dose.

[xanadu]

4gm of piracetam a day sounds like a lot. You could save a little there by cutting back to 2gm and seeing how you do. Lecithin is a good source of choline and can be gotten cheap in bulk. Buy a capping machine, a tamper and some caps if you haven't already. It's a great investment. I got mine from bulk nutrition.

[rfarris]

Bulk piracetam is only about $20/kg. It is hard to imagine taking more than $50/year worth. I don't think you can save very much money by cutting back your piracetam.

(Let's see. If you took 10g/day, then you'd use about 3kg of piracetam a year. Ok, it's hard for me to imagine spending more than $60 bucks. )

[xanadu]

I didn't say he could save a lot, I said he could save a little. 10gm a day of pir is way way too much. Just use as much as you need. I love the effects but have kept it to 1 and a fraction grams a day. Capping up your noots is the best way to save money.

[rfarris]

Exactly. I think, as you pointed out, somewhere between one- and two-grams a day means that $20 worth of piracetam would last you between 18-months and 3-years.

[haveblue]

Four grams is not so much if thats the only -racetam he's taking. I take Piracetam 4.8g and Oxiracetam 800mg per day and do just fine with 500mg of A-GPC, 1g ALCAR. I do also eat 2-3 eggs a day and drink organic grape juice though, which are both good natural sources of choline.

[notshorty]

...do just fine with 500mg of A-GPC, 1g ALCAR. I do also eat 2-3 eggs a day and drink organic grape juice though, which are both good natural sources of choline.

Wow, that's good to know. I eat 3 eggs a day, and would love to stretch out my supply of Alpha GPC (i.e. cut back from 1g to 500mg). Thanks for the tip...

NS

[rfarris]

Wow, that's good to know. I eat 3 eggs a day, and would love to stretch out my supply of Alpha GPC (i.e. cut back from 1g to 500mg).

I also eat three eggs a day, and it does add to the choline supply, but I don't think it has the same benefits as Alpha-GPC. I don't have my notes here, but I think that eggs are more like taking choline bitartrate than like taking A-GPCholine...

[mnosal]

Thanks to dimjimm, haveblue and rfarris for defending me in absentia

I have been using P'tam for many years, 4g is the ideal dose for me thru trial and error. 2g 7Am & 2g 3Pm covers work hours and evening classes well.

I don't use any other racetams because I never noticed any effect that was superior to good old fashioned Piracetam. (I've used Anir/Oxir etc). Not saying they don't work, just not for the budget I'm working with.

I'll pick up some bulk ALCAR for the Acetyl group and the LCarnitine benefits. That will be less expensive than A-GPC and kill two birds with one stone. The supplementary Choline will fill in holes left by diet.

[notshorty]

I also eat three eggs a day]does[/b] add to the choline supply, but I don't think it has the same benefits as Alpha-GPC.  I don't have my notes here, but I think that eggs are more like taking choline bitartrate than like taking A-GPCholine...

Probably true...bioavailability and whatnot. But I guess it does give me one more thing to consider, like maybe I could put off my Alpha GPC dose until the afternoon since I at least get some choline in the morning.

Oh yeah, this is the "Choline on a Budget" thread. Did anyone come up with an optimal "budget" dose of Choline - one that includes a moderate dose of Alpha GPC, along with a cheaper form to help cut the cost? (sorry if it's in the thread, I haven't read the whole thing in a while).

NS

[mitkat]

What are everyone's thoughts on using centrophenoxine as a choline donor? Wouldn't call it on a budget, per se, but I came into a bunch recently. I take piracetam and aniracetam, and I've dropped the bitartrate, and felt nothing lacking since I added centro.

[rfarris]

...maybe I could put off my Alpha GPC dose until the afternoon since I at least get some choline in the morning.

That's what I do. If I'm not having eggs for breakfast I take my A-GPC with breakfast (which would probably mean a banana and raw cream in my coffee). If I'm having eggs (almost always) I save the A-GPC for lunch. Note that you're supposed to take A-GPC with a meal.

[gcurrie]

I think centrophenoxine is a great supplement, and apparently has a few choline attributes. I'm pretty sure I read here that it is not as effective *just as a choline source* for use with racetams.

However, it has other positive aspects (for me, mental energy/focus).

I ran out very recently and have been too busy to order more and cap it.

I find it synergizes well with alpha GPC and racetams. What a great combination.

[triffidfood]

GPC/CDP appear to be BY FAR the best methods of supplementing acetylcholine {...}

-Choline bitartrate/citrate/etc. are essentially useless for ACHe, because on a healthy diet, its the acetyl-ization moreso than the choline level that determines the amount of ACHe.

-Lecithin is only a little better, as phosphadityl choline passes the blod-brain barrier, but again it just increases choline concentrations.

Okay, I'm bumping this up to ask a question...

I've recently been taking Lecithin granules (usually mixed with cranberry juice!) plus Vitamin B5, B6 and a multi-vitamin/ multi-mineral supplement, to try to increase my Acetylcholine levels.

The main reason I'm doing this relates to (lucid) dreaming ~ Acetylcholine is apparently the neurotransmitter when it comes to dreaming, being essentially the only neuroransmitter firing (at levels anywhere above trace) during REM sleep.

Anyway, I was interested in the sentence I've highlighted above. Sorry if this sounds like asking someone to spell out the blatantly obvious (? ), at least to everyone else, but is the point here that it's the brains ability to convert choline (etc) into Acetylcholine that's crucial, in otherwise healthy individuals, rather than the amount of choline swishing about per se?

If so, what supplements or substances are most effective in this respect?

Are we talking about Galantamine -type substances here, or something else? Or is this precisely what Alpha GPC does? (I hadn't heard of A-GPC before finding this forum, I have been using 'search' here but I'm finding it hard to pin down exactly what A-GPC does). Is Alpha-GPC generally considered the most effective way of increasing "acetyl-ization" then?

Thanks in advance for any replies..

Edited by triffidfood, 12 July 2006 - 02:00 AM.