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should you not drink milk?

protein depression

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#31 shifter

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 01:51 AM

Its also legal in China for supermarkets to sell antibiotics to any customer without any checks or doctors advice so what's your point? Just because a government says its okay or allows something it means its the best? Government used to allow smoking in hospitals and on public transport too. I'm sure I could go to Europe to a raw milk vending machine and drink it and be fine. And for the next 100 times. But what's the point? How much better will my health be after all that dice throwing as opposed to if I had drank pasteurised milk the whole time? Chicken has protein too, maybe we should not cook it to preserve those beautiful enzymes and proteins etc. While we are trying to keep our foods as pretty as we can for our bodies, lets neutralise out stomach acid before each meal because OMG that acid DENATURES proteins and parts of food DISSOLVE  in there!

 

Psychologically I think public toilets are gross, but I know this keyboard I am typing on or the change in my wallet is even grosser. Still, I either kick the flush button to flush or use toilet paper to open the door handle. I don't want to touch that!  :) But there is a constant war going on both in and outside our bodies. Trillions of germs fighting and eating each other and its actually helpful to us. It's all about balance.

 

If you choose raw milk for yourself and you have your own reasons for it, good for you. But to suggest to someone who's country may make sourcing raw milk impossible that pasteurised milk is extremely bad for you and you should never drink it is what I find silly because frankly, pasteurised milk in the grand scheme of things of what people eat, drink and breathe in each day is harmless.


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#32 aconita

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:33 AM

But to suggest to someone who's country may make sourcing raw milk impossible that pasteurised milk is extremely bad for you and you should never drink it

 

May you kindly point me to where I actually stated that?

 

 

How much better will my health be after all that dice throwing as opposed to if I had drank pasteurised milk the whole time?

 

Are really you so smart to know for sure what the answer is?

 

By the way, are you suggesting that EU plays dice trowing with the health of its citizens?

 

I hope you are not from the US because that would make the case for a very loud laugh...

 

You are trying to defend a position with any means just for the sake of it, do you really find appropriate to compare the EU health policy with that of China?

 

Do you really think best is a government that outlaws the possibility of CHOOSING between raw or pasteurized milk banning the former?

 

Maybe in the US it is better to ban raw milk since regulamentation of farming good practice are nonexistent and God knows what might end up to be sold, or maybe in the US ESPECIALLY is a very smart choice to drink ONLY raw milk since chances are that farming practice would be better taken care of in that case because produced by more sensitive farmers (since government seems to not care at all).

 

Chickens are not created to be eaten, are meant to live their life as every living creature is, the enzymes found in chickens are there because chickens need them for their own biological processes, maybe we could benefit from them but maybe it would be irrelevant, for sure they are not there because the eventuality we may eat chicken ...

 

Milk is created as food and only as such, what for are enzymes in it?

 

By mistake, by chance, because God had some leftovers to get rid of and just disposed them in milk?

 

I think it is reasonable to think that milk enzymes are meant to be ingested along with the milk itself, the fact that we don't have a double blind research published on PubMed explaining exactly the role they have health wise is totally irrelevant.

 

Apart from mosquitoes, of which I am really unable to find a reason for existence (well...I might include some humans too, but that gets way too much off topic...), usually there is a very smart and good reason for things to be the way they are, even if we don't necessarily grasp why, I don't think it would be likely for enzymes in milk to be an exception.

 

Anyway I am not advocating raw milk as the solution to all world problems, I just suggested that, talking about milk, it might be healthier raw than pasteurized and if I do remember correctly that milk itself might be better to be avoided at all especially in countries like US where most cows are farmed under horrific conditions. 

 

The chemical cocktail of hormones, antibiotics and God knows what else ends up in milk scares me far more than the worst case scenario of a couple diarrhea days by poorly stored raw milk. 



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#33 shifter

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 07:29 AM

What I said was meant in general terms. The suggestion that pasteurised milk should not be consumed in favour for a non existent (to that persons country) raw milk. However you did say

 

 

 

Given the horrific health conditions of most farmed cows in US you might.

 

Pasteurization is another concern, raw milk would be much better.

 

Frankly I don't see how the pasteurisation process is a concern. I can see a concern though in eating many things that are raw (milk being one of them).

 

I do not live in the US so you don't need to worry about laughing too loud. I'm as far away from them as you are

 

As a kid I used to eat raw eggs. I used an electric mixer, added sugar and voila! A delicious egg nog. Perhaps you think the idea of banning raw milk where you live would be similar to the country banning raw eggs and only selling them if they are hard boiled or something because somebody may get salmonella poisoning. You could be right. If my government decided to allowed raw milk to be sold, it wouldn't bother me. I'd still make the choice for pasteurised milk because the process of pasteurisation is essentially harmless.

 

Does the EU roll the dice with its citizens? It's a calculated risk. Much like my priorities as a kid wanting a delicious egg nog (cant make that with a hard boiled egg!). I cross the street later tonight, it's a risk. I personally would not choose the risk of raw milk with other options available to me. My choice. You want raw milk? Your choice. But the misinformation about pasteurisation should not be spread as fact.

 

The rise of raw foods etc has become a trendy millennial hipster fad based on pseudo science. As said earlier, raw food has its benefits but no where in any literature I have seen promoting these diets does it mention about AGEs anyway. In fact, cooking food can break down cell walls and unlock more carotenoids and nutrients for your body. You obviously don't want to over cook things but cooking is not bad in itself. It is argued that it is when primitive man used fire to cook food that our intelligence and brain size really took off so perhaps raw foodies might want to think about that. Also enzymes from plants do nothing for humans so feel free to boil or steam them until they are delicious. And all enzymes regardless from plants, animals or raw milk are essentially destroyed when they come in contact with stomach acid anyway. Do you really want those enzymes to make it through your GI tract? You could say we have stomach acid for a reason and one of those reasons is to break apart proteins and enzymes so there is no chance they will get into our blood intact.

 

If you don't like the idea of eating a chicken (which are usually bred these days to be food on our dinner plate and face facts, all animals are usually the prey of another animal so are food) cooked or raw, perhaps you would like to eat a cow or lamb raw.  Do you consider them as food? Or do you think every animal was meant to live its life and not be eaten by other animals. Humans are animals too and we are on top of the food chain.

 

Raw cows milk has enzymes for the infant calf it was designed for. Does an adult human need these enzymes intact prior to ingestion? I think not. From my perspective, the enzymes have already done their job in the milk before I get to drink it

 

Mosquitoes are actually pretty important for a number of reasons for many different species but that's going off topic :)

 

 

 

 

 



#34 niner

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 04:15 AM

 

We are talking about heating the milk to a little over 70 degrees for 4 seconds

 

If it is irrelevant it doesn't prevent bacteria from be harmful (which in fact is the case, at least sometimes), if it does the job it is enough to destroy some proteins and enzymes too.

 

No, it doesn't destroy proteins.  They are a lot more rugged than that.   Heat will cause a protein (enzymes are proteins) to unfold, but that just makes it easier to digest.  It doesn't change the molecular connectivity.  Unfolded proteins will usually spontaneously refold when the temperature is reduced, at least in the case of pure proteins.  Proteins in complex matrices like food are probably less likely to refold, but that doesn't matter if we are going to eat them.
 



#35 niner

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 04:36 AM

Here's a paper on human breast milk and the gastrointestinal innate immune system.  Some enzymes in milk, like lactoferrin, lysozyme, and others have antimicrobial properties that are important in neonates.   Whether or not they are important in adults is a question, but this answers my question of how enzymes in milk can be good for humans.  The enzymes don't act systemically, but are active in at least some parts of the gut.  Bovine lactoferrin is very similar to the human version, and has been shown to be helpful for infants when supplemented.



#36 shifter

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 09:45 PM

Here is something I could be tempted to try if it were not more than 5x as expensive than regular milk. I'm sure it will be popular with the hipsters though

 

www.canberratimes.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/coldmilk-raw-milk-method-wins-regulatory-approval-20160601-gp8r76.html

 

The benefit/cost ratio to get a fraction greater of a few nutrients far from stacks up especially when I already take good quality multi vitamins/minerals that cost far less. How much do people drink a day? 250ml? Is it really a major source of your nutrition? I would not be surprised to see a clueless hipster pouring this 'raw' milk in the latest 'deconstructed coffee' trend. (where you wait 20 mins for a coffee to be delivered to you on a wooden paddle with 1 'science' beaker of boiled coffee, 1 of milk and 1 of water to make yourself). lol 

 


Edited by shifter, 01 June 2016 - 09:48 PM.


#37 Nate-2004

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:57 AM

Regarding "the China Study" I mentioned in my first post as far as casein proteins are concerned.



#38 nickdino

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:46 AM

Does the fermenting of any milk (a1/a2/pasteurized/etc.) with kefirgrains destroy the culprits such as bcm7, galactose, etc.





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