22 replies to this topic

[hyoomen]

Hello all. Seems strange that nobody has posted on here about Glucosamine & Chondroitin Sulfate for joint care. Joints wear out over time (especially for those of us pushing into exercise and body building), and maintaining proper lubrication and the like is absolutely necessary.

Does anybody have personal preferences regarding Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplements? I'm currently looking into a liquid supplement from Pureceuticals that has Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM. The common claim from these companies is increased absorption/bioavailability of the liquid state of these supplements.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[scottl]

Hello all.  Seems strange that nobody has posted on here about Glucosamine & Chondroitin Sulfate for joint care.  Joints wear out over time (especially for those of us pushing into exercise and body building), and maintaining proper lubrication and the like is absolutely necessary.

Does anybody have personal preferences regarding Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplements?  I'm currently looking into a liquid supplement from Pureceuticals that has Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM.  The common claim from these companies is increased absorption/bioavailability of the liquid state of these supplements.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM.

The common claim from these companies is increased absorption/bioavailability of the liquid state of these supplements. [wis]

[ajnast4r]

dont buy liquid, and do not buy cheap glucosamine, it MUST be a stabalized potasium salt to be effective... not just plain glucosamine or sodium based.

chondroitin is pretty worthless imo... glucosamine & MSM is what you want.

go with enzymatic therapys MSM + GS500... they were the 1st ones to introduce glucosamine to the US, and its a great product. thats what i have my mother on.


if you do want the chondroiten, go with pioneers joint forumla... which btw is also a great product

ide probably just get whatever is cheaper per dose lol

[rfarris]

Don't overlook LEFs Chondrox.

[ajnast4r]

Don't overlook LEFs Chondrox.

thats a bit pricey... i also dont trust LEF supplements after reading about them failing consumer labs assays

[rfarris]

It's expensive, but that's for 300 capsules, and taking the same quantity of ingredients as the more common products, this will last at least three months.

As to the consumer labs assays, note that the failing company was Life Enhancement which is not Life Extension Foundation. It's an easy mistake to make, though.

[ajnast4r]

nope... this has nothing to do with their chondrox product, but just shows that they are slipping on quality control. which is unacceptable considering the price of their products, and their "name"



TRIMSPA X32 and Life Extension™ Chromium 200 mcg Caps were both found to contain relatively high levels of hexavalent chromium, a potential carcinogen and toxin. To pass the testing, ConsumerLab.com required products to have no more than 0.1% of their total chromium in this form. In these two products, 0.4% and 3.8%, respectively, of the total chromium was hexavalent chromium. It is not known whether these amounts are sufficient to cause harm, but it seems prudent to avoid such exposure

[rfarris]

You are right, my friend. I was thinking about the Huperzine-A boondoggle made by Life Enhancement.

I have some LEF chromium, but not the one with hexavalent chromium.

[biknut]

i bought a bottle of natures plus liquid two weeks ago. it seems to be working as good or better than other brands i've tried. this is the first liquid i've tried.
www.naturesplus.com

ajnast4r, please explain why do you not recommend liquid? i heard it's better than pills.

[liorrh]

dont buy liquid]potasium[/b] salt to be effective... not just plain glucosamine or sodium based.

any references for that?

I have alot to share on the subject as I've researched it quite extrensively and even in the process of writing some relevant patents. its kind of my main area of expertise. but what you said is new to me.

Edited by liorrh, 08 December 2005 - 02:36 PM.

[ajnast4r]

ajnast4r, please explain why do you not recommend liquid? i heard it's better than pills.

natures plus is a great brand...


people will usually tell you liquid is more bioavailable and better absorbed, because the tablet usually takes 10-20 minutes to be broken down in the stomach...but thats BS...especially if taken with a stomachfull of food theres NO significant difference between the bioavailablity/absorbtion of a liquid and a tablet

any references for that?

not off the top of my head, when i get back from work today ill post some.

[biknut]

ajnast4r, thanks for the reply.

so basically i think you're saying liquid is ok, it's just not any better than pills?
i can believe that because i always bought pills before this and they worked well for me too. i think maybe some people might not absorb pills as well. i gave a bottle of my favorite brand to my doctor who had a recent operation on his knee, and he said they didn't work for him because they just through him and came out pretty much intact. he only weighs about 140 lbs.

the liquid tastes yuck and no matter how carefully i pour it, it still runs down the side of the bottle and i have to wash the bottle or it gets nasty. aside from that i like this liquid. i saw it online for $21. i payed msrp for 30 fl oz $41 for it at a store in dallas.

[hyoomen]

Interesting! Thanks for all of the posts so far. I'm curious about the statements regarding stabilized potassium salts. If you have more information, it'd be a great read.

[xanadu]

Glucosamine and chondroitin are great. I've been using them for years. The cheap brands work just as well as the expensive ones, don't let anyone con you. The sulphate works as well as the chloride. I'd say chondroitin is the better one of the two but both are better together than separately.

[ajnast4r]

i was incorrect... potasium salts are not better absorbed, it just that the sodium stabilized glucosamine provides a decent amount of sodium. not many people need extra sodium, so the potasium is preferable. most good brands are potasium.

cheap brands are rarely if ever as good as the more expensive ones, and glucosamine is one of those cases. cheap glucosamine runs the risk of being contaminated with lead and magnanese. do not buy cheap glucosamine

[xanadu]

"cheap brands are rarely if ever as good as the more expensive ones, and glucosamine is one of those cases. cheap glucosamine runs the risk of being contaminated with lead and magnanese."

Do you have any proof to substantiate those claims? I've been hearing the same thing said about chinese imports, almost word for word yet I've never heard of a documented case where they were found to be contaminated. All I know is the cheap brands like Sam's club and the others I've tried did the job and worked well. If someone can show proof of contamination in a certain brand or in a lot of cheap brands, I'll avoid them. If they are sure just based on faith that expensive = better and cheap means contaminated, then I'll go by my results which are good.

[ajnast4r]

"cheap brands are rarely if ever as good as the more expensive ones, and glucosamine is one of those cases. cheap glucosamine runs the risk of being contaminated with lead and magnanese."

Do you have any proof to substantiate those claims? I've been hearing the same thing said about chinese imports, almost word for word yet I've never heard of a documented case where they were found to be contaminated. All I know is the cheap brands like Sam's club and the others I've tried did the job and worked well. If someone can show proof of contamination in a certain brand or in a lot of cheap brands, I'll avoid them. If they are sure just based on faith that expensive = better and cheap means contaminated, then I'll go by my results which are good.

yes the proof is in the certificates of analysis, call your sams club brand and ask for one. ask if they use pharmacuetical grade(or better) ingredients. ask if they get INDEPENDANT heavy metal and microbial screening. ask if every lot gets a screening post production. ask if the effectiveness of the forms of each ingredient are backed by clinical studies.

the brands and products i recomend adhere to these standards. your sams club does NOT.

we just ran into this on this board with someone claiming their puritans pride(or one of those grocery store brand) fish oil was just as good as the brands i was saying were superior. so he called the company and they would not provide him with any COA's, while the brands i recomended did provide COA's... within minutes of asking

dont kid yourself into thinking cheap supplements are as good as the more expensive brands... they are more expensive for a REASON... its like comparing a kia to a mercedes.

[liorrh]

hmm.
Glucosamine is very good for the lean (and also their) joint but not the obese or oereating.
regarding sodium in glucosamine supplemets - you are correct, but for lean people sodium is a good thing and obese shouldn't touch glucosamine anyway. so I don't see it as a problem.

if you're not lean and not obese...
there is an unsalted version of glucosamine (NAG-glucosamine) which you should take a look at if you care about sodium.

[xanadu]

[quote name='ajnast4r' date='-->

QUOTE (ajnast4r)

<!--QuoteEBegin']"cheap brands are rarely if ever as good as the more expensive ones, and glucosamine is one of those cases. cheap glucosamine runs the risk of being contaminated with lead and magnanese." Do you have any proof to substantiate those claims? I've been hearing the same thing said about chinese imports, almost word for word yet I've never heard of a documented case where they were found to be contaminated. All I know is the cheap brands like Sam's club and the others I've tried did the job and worked well. If someone can show proof of contamination in a certain brand or in a lot of cheap brands, I'll avoid them. If they are sure just based on faith that expensive = better and cheap means contaminated, then I'll go by my results which are good.[/quote] yes the proof is in the certificates of analysis, call your sams club brand and ask for one. ask if they use pharmacuetical grade(or better) ingredients. ask if they get INDEPENDANT heavy metal and microbial screening. ask if every lot gets a screening post production. ask if the effectiveness of the forms of each ingredient are backed by clinical studies. the brands and products i recomend adhere to these standards. your sams club does NOT. we just ran into this on this board with someone claiming their puritans pride(or one of those grocery store brand) fish oil was just as good as the brands i was saying were superior. so he called the company and they would not provide him with any COA's, while the brands i recomended did provide COA's... within minutes of asking dont kid yourself into thinking cheap supplements are as good as the more expensive brands... they are more expensive for a REASON... its like comparing a kia to a mercedes.[/quote] So your whole argument is that the manufacturer doesn't have each and every one of those tests done to your satisfaction? And how do you know this about Sam's club? Have you checked them out or is it your faith again? I'd bet it was faith. You simply have ben sold a bill of goods. How do you know the COA your supplier tells you about is legit? I have not heard of one case of contaminated glucosamine or chondroitin, which by the way is as good as glucosamine for arthritis whether you choose to believe it or not. Not one case of contamination but you are sure that if they don't have all the certificates, or claim to have them, that the stuff is contaminated for sure. Even when you don't know if they have them or not, you tell us they don't. Sams is a huge company, part of the largest retailer in the world. But according to you they don't have any certificates because they are "cheap" Could be but I have to see some proof besides your say so. All I know is their stuff works just as well as the overpriced other stuff. I've tried combinations that had only a little chondroitin and it did not work well for me. Gl is fine for certain things but for arthritis you need ch also. Back to top #20 ajnast4r Guest, F@H 3,925 posts 147 ₮ Location:USA NO Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:01 AM So your whole argument is that the manufacturer doesn't have each and every one of those tests done to your satisfaction? And how do you know this about Sam's club? Have you checked them out or is it your faith again? I'd bet it was faith. You simply have ben sold a bill of goods. How do you know the COA your supplier tells you about is legit? I have not heard of one case of contaminated glucosamine or chondroitin, which by the way is as good as glucosamine for arthritis whether you choose to believe it or not. Not one case of contamination but you are sure that if they don't have all the certificates, or claim to have them, that the stuff is contaminated for sure. Even when you don't know if they have them or not, you tell us they don't. Sams is a huge company, part of the largest retailer in the world. But according to you they don't have any certificates because they are "cheap" Could be but I have to see some proof besides your say so. All I know is their stuff works just as well as the overpriced other stuff. I've tried combinations that had only a little chondroitin and it did not work well for me. Gl is fine for certain things but for arthritis you need ch also. its not faith to know sams club type brands dont adhere to what i consider acceptable standards, its expirience. i sell supplements, and my boss has been in the industry for 30 years. between my expirience with ALOT of different companies, and what ive learned from my boss... i think i have a pretty good grasp on what companies do and do not do. i know my COA's are legit because they are always performed and independant FDA registered labs. theres no faking that. to my knowledge, sams club is part of walmart... the cheapest pile of corporate greed in existance in this world today. dont kid urself into thinking that company has your best interest in mind, they would and do cut every corner possible... even when its your health and wellbeing thats at risk. i dont care if you THINK cheap brands are as good as the more expensive brands...you go right ahead and get me a COA for sam clubs glucosamine & chondroiten, and ill get you a COA for one of the brands i like.... and we'll see whos has more contaminents. Back to top #21 xanadu Guest 1,917 posts 8 ₮ Posted 12 December 2005 - 06:25 PM ajnast4r, you say you aren't operating on faith but then you say: "to my knowledge, sams club is part of walmart... the cheapest pile of corporate greed in existance in this world today. dont kid urself into thinking that company has your best interest in mind, they would and do cut every corner possible... even when its your health and wellbeing thats at risk." You don't know if they have them (COA's) or not but you tell me you are sure they don't based on your opinion, apparently, of walmart. You reveal that you sell supplements so you have a financial interest in knocking other brands. Sorry, but none of that is proof of what you say. It's like your statements on microwaving, long on belief and nonexistent on proof. Sorry to be a stick in the mud but I need proof of the things you say and you've shown none. My experience has been that sam's club supplements work. I know they work. "you go right ahead and get me a COA for sam clubs glucosamine & chondroiten, and ill get you a COA for one of the brands i like.... and we'll see whos has more contaminents." You said sam's was contaminated with lead and other things. It's not up to me to prove you wrong. You have the responsibility to prove your statement in the first place. Otherwise, I could say G Bush is an alien and it would be up to you to disprove it. The one making a claim has the onus of proving his statement. You haven't even offered any evidence let alone proof. Don't take this as a personal attack, I have nothing against you. It's just in the realm of facts and evidence. Back to top #22 ajnast4r Guest, F@H 3,925 posts 147 ₮ Location:USA NO Posted 12 December 2005 - 06:48 PM and i work at a place that sells supplements, i dont own it... i dont gain anything financially from recomending one brand verses another. ask anyone on this board if you have any questions about my integrity i didnt say sams club was for SURE contaminated, i said that cheaper brands run the risk of contamination because they dont adhere to stringent quality control standards... and they dont. they skip alot of expensive testing, which is one of the reasons why you get a supplement that is so cheap... along with them usually using cheaper forms of the ingredients. if you dont believe me, i dunno what to tell you... i dont care?. you obviously dont know what your talking about. untill you can post or fax me a COA proving your 'sams club' supplements are on par with the better brands, im not even gonna reply to you in this thread anymore. Back to top sponsored ad Advert Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above). #23 liorrh Guest, F@H 388 posts -1 ₮ Posted 12 December 2005 - 06:53 PM back to the topic of glucosamine... ;-) Back to top Back to Supplements 1 user(s) are reading this topic 0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users Reply to quoted posts     Clear     LONGECITY → Science & Health → Supplements site rules Change Theme IP.Board 2015b IP.Board Mobile 2015a Mark Community Read Portal Forums Members Blogs Downloads Gallery Join Links Tracker Videos Testimonials Mark all as read Help     advertisers CodingJungle Provisionists Community Forum Software by IP.Board Licensed to: ImmInst.org Hosted since 2002 by canaca.com - always great service and support!              Global Forum Sponsor 2015/16: crackaging.com - telomerase activation supplements Ad Notice You Are Using Ad Block Plus or some other advert blocking software. 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[ajnast4r]

So your whole argument is that the manufacturer doesn't have each and every one of those tests done to your satisfaction? And how do you know this about Sam's club? Have you checked them out or is it your faith again? I'd bet it was faith. You simply have ben sold a bill of goods. How do you know the COA your supplier tells you about is legit?

I have not heard of one case of contaminated glucosamine or chondroitin, which by the way is as good as glucosamine for arthritis whether you choose to believe it or not. Not one case of contamination but you are sure that if they don't have all the certificates, or claim to have them, that the stuff is contaminated for sure. Even when you don't know if they have them or not, you tell us they don't. Sams is a huge company, part of the largest retailer in the world. But according to you they don't have any certificates because they are "cheap"

Could be but I have to see some proof besides your say so. All I know is their stuff works just as well as the overpriced other stuff. I've tried combinations that had only a little chondroitin and it did not work well for me. Gl is fine for certain things but for arthritis you need ch also.

its not faith to know sams club type brands dont adhere to what i consider acceptable standards, its expirience. i sell supplements, and my boss has been in the industry for 30 years. between my expirience with ALOT of different companies, and what ive learned from my boss... i think i have a pretty good grasp on what companies do and do not do.

i know my COA's are legit because they are always performed and independant FDA registered labs. theres no faking that.

to my knowledge, sams club is part of walmart... the cheapest pile of corporate greed in existance in this world today. dont kid urself into thinking that company has your best interest in mind, they would and do cut every corner possible... even when its your health and wellbeing thats at risk.

i dont care if you THINK cheap brands are as good as the more expensive brands...you go right ahead and get me a COA for sam clubs glucosamine & chondroiten, and ill get you a COA for one of the brands i like.... and we'll see whos has more contaminents.

[xanadu]

ajnast4r, you say you aren't operating on faith but then you say:

"to my knowledge, sams club is part of walmart... the cheapest pile of corporate greed in existance in this world today. dont kid urself into thinking that company has your best interest in mind, they would and do cut every corner possible... even when its your health and wellbeing thats at risk."

You don't know if they have them (COA's) or not but you tell me you are sure they don't based on your opinion, apparently, of walmart. You reveal that you sell supplements so you have a financial interest in knocking other brands. Sorry, but none of that is proof of what you say. It's like your statements on microwaving, long on belief and nonexistent on proof. Sorry to be a stick in the mud but I need proof of the things you say and you've shown none. My experience has been that sam's club supplements work. I know they work.

"you go right ahead and get me a COA for sam clubs glucosamine & chondroiten, and ill get you a COA for one of the brands i like.... and we'll see whos has more contaminents."

You said sam's was contaminated with lead and other things. It's not up to me to prove you wrong. You have the responsibility to prove your statement in the first place. Otherwise, I could say G Bush is an alien and it would be up to you to disprove it. The one making a claim has the onus of proving his statement. You haven't even offered any evidence let alone proof. Don't take this as a personal attack, I have nothing against you. It's just in the realm of facts and evidence.

[ajnast4r]

and i work at a place that sells supplements, i dont own it... i dont gain anything financially from recomending one brand verses another. ask anyone on this board if you have any questions about my integrity

i didnt say sams club was for SURE contaminated, i said that cheaper brands run the risk of contamination because they dont adhere to stringent quality control standards... and they dont. they skip alot of expensive testing, which is one of the reasons why you get a supplement that is so cheap... along with them usually using cheaper forms of the ingredients.

if you dont believe me, i dunno what to tell you... i dont care?. you obviously dont know what your talking about. untill you can post or fax me a COA proving your 'sams club' supplements are on par with the better brands, im not even gonna reply to you in this thread anymore.

[liorrh]

back to the topic of glucosamine...

;-)