23 replies to this topic

[liorrh]

: Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2005 Oct;15(5):480-92. Related Articles, Links 


Exercise and mononuclear cell DNA damage: the effects of antioxidant supplementation.

Davison GW, Hughes CM, Bell RA.

School of Health Sciences, University of Ulster Jordanstown, Newtownabbey, Northern Ireland, UK.

The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of antioxidant supplementation on DNA damage following exercise. Fourteen subjects were randomly assigned to one of two groups and required to ingest either antioxidants (400 mg alpha-lipoic acid, 200 mg co-enzyme Q10, 12 mg manganese, 600 mg vitamin C, 800 mg N-acetyl cysteine, 400 microg selenium, and 400 IU alpha-tocopherol per day) or placebos for 7 d. Exercise increased DNA damage, PS, FRAP, and LDH (P < 0.05), but not selectively between groups. LDH and PS concentration decreased 1 h post-exercise (P < 0.05), while LH concentration decreased 1 h post-exercise in the antioxidant group only (P < 0.05). The antioxidant group had a higher concentration of LH (P < 0.05), perhaps due to a selective difference between groups post-exercise (P < 0.05). The main findings of this investigation demonstrate that exhaustive aerobic exercise induces DNA damage, while antioxidant supplementation does not protect against damage.

PMID: 16327031

thoughts on what antioxidants can protect? this is scary.
those are nice doses.

[athanatos]

What would the long term effects of this DNA damage be? Can it be healed naturally? I exercise a lot so this worries me a little.

[Mind]

Don't worry athanatos. There is a mountain (a whole mountain range in fact) of evidence that supports exercise as a method of healthy life extension. I don't know if the video of Chris Heward's Imminst conference presentation has been pposted yet, but he had some information about athletes vs. non-athletes. Athletes age at the same rate as everyone else, but they outlive the non-athletes by a significant number of years.

[biknut]

what this study, and others like it that i've read indicates, is that taking conventional antioxidants makes no noticeable change in levels of oxidative stress.
in other words, as far as reducing oxidative stress they don't work. they might help in other ways, but not in reducing oxidative stress

i know i'm going to start world war three by saying this, but this forum's been a little boring lately anyway.

there is only one supplement on the market that has been proven to reduce oxidative stress, and that is protandim. like it or lump it. their webb sight is
www.protandim.com check it out for yourself.

you can say it doesn't work all day long but as soon as the complete study is published you'll be eating your words.
you got that dancubit and scotl ?

[biknut]

this doesn't make it true, but based on my own personal experience with antioxidants that i've taken, i believe it. after months of supplementation i could never tell any difference in my health.


Experts Urge Less Focus on Antioxidants By J.M. HIRSCH, Associated Press Writer
51 minutes ago



Tired of trying to keep track of all the so-called superfoods you're supposed to eat?

ADVERTISEMENT

You know, oregano that packs 42 times more antioxidants than apples, cooked tomatoes that may prevent prostate cancer, and chocolate and wine that may or may not be health foods?

Then here's the good news — you can stop trying.

Leading researchers say all those breathless headlines, food packaging claims and seemingly contradictory studies about what antioxidants can and can't do have fostered a faulty silver bullet mind-set that can hinder health more than help.

Instead, experts advise focusing on balance, moderation and variety, and leaving the phytochemicals, flavanols and phenolic acids to scientists.

Researcher Jeffrey Blumberg acknowledges that "doesn't seem to be a very sexy message. People would rather be told there is a superfood, a term I hate because in fact there is no such thing."

Foods labeled as antioxidant-rich — everything from bottled tea to bags of frozen berries — have become a $526 million industry that continues to grow.

Even foods that otherwise have seen sales slump are getting a boost from antioxidant claims, says Phil Lempert, a food industry analyst and editor of SupermarketGuru.com. Sales of blueberry preserves, for example, are up, though overall jam sales are down.

"It's clear that regardless of whether or not people understand what 'rich in antioxidants' means, it is certainly a logo or a stamp that says 'Buy me! I'm going to help you live forever,'" Lempert says.

Maybe. Maybe not. Experts aren't suggesting antioxidants aren't important or that people shouldn't eat foods that contain them. Instead, they're saying not enough is known about how they work to justify focusing one's diet on any particular antioxidant or food.

It's all about quashing free radicals, harmful chemicals produced by the body and found in the environment that damage cells. That damage has been linked to a host of chronic conditions, from heart problems to cancer, even aging.

Diets rich in antioxidants — which are in countless foods — seem to minimize this damage. What's not clear is whether that benefit is due to the antioxidants themselves or to the overall diet and the way the antioxidants and other nutrients in it interact.

The evidence increasingly suggests the latter, says Howard Sesso, a professor of medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. That means eating patterns make a difference, but probably not eating particular foods or taking supplements.

Diets rich in beta carotene, for example, have been found to help prevent heart disease and cancer, but studies of beta carotene supplements alone have been mostly disappointing. And there is little evidence that one antioxidant is better than another.

Also unknown is whether quantity counts. Manufacturers brag about the amount of antioxidants in their products, but studies have yet to establish that more is better, or whether the body can even absorb the amounts contained in most foods.

Blumberg, a scientist at Tufts University's Friedman School of Nutrition, worries that the hype about antioxidants creates a false sense of security. Eating a daily handful of almonds — believed good for heart health — won't make up for a diet otherwise laden with saturated fat and cholesterol.

So how should people work antioxidants into their diets? Think big picture.

Healthy diets are like healthy investment portfolios — diversified, says John Erdman Jr., a professor of internal medicine at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Eating a variety of produce and whole grains ensures the best mix of all nutrients.

There's probably not much harm in eating a lot of blueberries, but that can't be said of all antioxidant-rich foods. The calories in fruit juice and alcohol, for example, add up quickly and obesity negates the benefits of even the healthiest foods.

Even people trying to address specific health problems would do better to eat a broad mix of foods than to tailor their diets around certain ingredients, the experts say.

"When people get prostate cancer, all of the sudden they make all the changes in their diet," Erdman says. "We don't even know if those changes make a difference then. But we know that if people eat that diet before getting cancer, you don't tend to get it."

Consumers also must be critical of companies' health claims about antioxidants, many of which are unregulated and unsupported by science. And studies often are funded by the industries that benefit when products are dubbed superfoods.

Bottom line — eat a balanced diet and don't get hung up on the particulars.

http://news.yahoo.co...idant_confusion

[canz]

Hmmmm, interesting.........

[xanadu]

Can a mod or admin delete some of hazar's repetitive posts? The novelty has worn off from seeing the same thing over and over.

Antioxidants have been proven to improve health. Many studies have been done on vit c, e, co q 10 and many other substances. I don't think this one narrow study is going to disprove all the others. It doesn't even claim to do that, it just focuses on one tiny area.

[liorrh]

Umm Guys

I am NOT trying to disprovbe or deny the aforementioned antioxidants benefits.
its just that I wonder in the specific case of exercise induced damage what CAN I do about it.

lynx, life mirage, others?

[JonesGuy]

Doesn't Duke Nukem have a theory about exercise boosting the body's defense from oxidative damage?

[london710]

This suggests that upregulation (with Glisodin) of the bodys own anti-oxidants, SOD, Catalase and Gluthatione peroxidase, adds a strong, measurable defense against oxidative stress:

"Human Research


In a study published in Free Radical Research in September 2004, GliSODin® was shown to protect against oxidative stress damage in a dramatic human model. In this double-blind placebo controlled trial, healthy volunteers were given pure oxygen in a hyperbaric chamber which increased atmospheric pressure to 2.5 times normal, inducing intense oxidative stress. The GliSODin® group had significantly lower cellular DNA damage as evidenced by the comet assay[2]. Further, these findings coincided with reduced blood isoprostane levels, another marker of oxidative stress. Interestingly, GliSODin® is the first compound to ever demonstrate this protective benefit in this model. Vitamin E and N-acetylcysteine, for example, did not.


Influence Of An Orally Effective SOD On Hyperbaric, Oxygen Related Cell Damage





Free Radical Research 38:9 (2004) pp. 927-932


Extreme exercise is another model for induced oxidative stress. Several markers of this stress are serum total antioxidant status and plasma lactic acid. In a compelling study, healthy volunteers supplemented their diets with 1500 mcg of GliSODin® for four weeks. Prior to GliSODin® use, the volunteers participated in strenuous exercise and baseline measurements of serum total antioxidant status, plasma lactate accumulation and several other markers were measured for each participant. After supplementation, the extreme exercise was repeated and the oxidative stress markers where measured once again. GliSODin® supplementation resulted in a significant change in oxidative status and a significant decrease in exercise-induced lactate release, suggesting the damage caused oxidative stress was significantly inhibited[3].


GliSODin’s benefits protecting cells against oxidative stress are also supported buy two studies looking at the effects of UV rays on the skin.

The first study was conducted by researchers at Center Hospital University, Besançon, France, and was presented at the CARD (Annual Congress of Dermatological Research) meeting in Brest on May 28th.

In this randomized double-blind study with 50 participants, UV skin burn (actinic erythema) was induced on the inner-forearms of healthy subjects before supplementation with GliSODin or placebo, and each week for four weeks during supplementation. The color of the skin was measured by chromometry, and changes in skin due to inflammation were assessed by videocapillaroscopy, which calculates the congestion of small blood vessels.

According to the researchers, “This study confirms the efficacy of GliSODin in the prevention of the consequences of oxidative stress resulting from exposure to the sun. This efficacy is of particular interest for phototypes II (fair-skinned) that represent a major part of the consultations in dermatology.”



The researchers also noted the GliSODin was extremely fast-acting. The GliSODin and placebo supplementation were started just two to three days prior to the first UV irradiation, and despite such a short period there was a noticeable difference between the two groups.




From the study:



GliSODin supplementation resulted in significantly greater UV exposure needed to induce a burn (up to 8x more than placebo in fair-skinned participants), and


the redness induced by the oxidative stress decreased more quickly in the GliSODin group

The second study, an open clinical trial conducted by French dermatologists showed significant protection against the deleterious effects of the sun with GliSODin. Conducted over a 60 day period, 150 volunteers susceptible to flushing and burns, sun allergy, and other reactions such as pruritus, solar eczema and rashes participated in this open trial.



In the study, 86% of the participants experienced significant protection. The report concludes, “GliSODin usage prepares the skin for exposure to the sun and undeniably improves the condition of both the patient's skin and general condition.”



Led by Catherine Laverdet, M.D., a team of 40 French dermatologists evaluated the effects of GliSODin and sun exposure in 150 patients (130 women and 20 men).



The patients were given 500mg of GliSODin a day 15 days prior to and during sun exposure. The patients sunbathed as usual and continued to use their regular sun screen (Index 20 to 100).



Enrolled patients were split into three different groups and evaluated after 60 days.



Group 1: 75 patients who suffer flushes as soon as sun exposure begins or following more or less serious sunburns. In this group, 85% of the patients (64) had no sunburn, 8% (6) had diminished episodes, and 6% (5) experienced sunburn


Group 2: 60 patients who experience sun allergic reactions. In this group, 73% of the patients (44) did not experience allergic reaction, 10% (6) had a reduced reaction, and 16% (10) experienced an allergic reaction


Group 3: 15 patients with other reactions such as pruritus (severe skin itching), solar eczema and rashes. In this group, 100% of the patients were free from negative reactions


The participants also completed a questionnaire and reported the following:



110 patients believed that their skin was well prepared for exposure to the sun
76 patients reported that they tanned more with less exposure to the sun
62 patients felt that taking GliSODin speeds up the tanning process




The patients were asked to report any quality of life issues that they associated with GliSODin usage. Eighty-eight patients declared their quality of life to have been improved, citing among other benefits, increased vitality, improved quality of sleep and alertness, and improved muscular comfort.



What is GliSODin®?


After decades of research, a team of French scientists at Isocell finally developed a unique oral delivery system that combines gliadin (a wheat protein extract) with a 100% vegetarian form of SOD, which comes from cantaloupe melon rather than the usual bovine source. Called GliSODin®, researchers demonstrated that the combination of the gliadin polymer and SOD protected the SOD from stomach acid and intestinal digestive enzymes and delivered SOD intact to the cells of the body, where it could be effectively used in a variety of antioxidant defense and immune support mechanisms. Furthermore, these studies showed that blood levels of SOD were markedly increased after ingesting GliSODin®, which indicated that the antioxidant enzyme, SOD, was effectively absorbed and utilized from the intestines.


GliSODin® is covered by several U.S. patents: 6,045,809 and 6,426,068B1, with additional patents forthcoming.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] GliSODin® has been shown to modulate levels of SOD, Gpx and Cat in multiple animal models and in humans with depressed SOD levels due to compromised immunity or environmental stress factors.



[2] Muth, et. Al. " Influence of an orally effective SOD on hyperbaric, oxygen related cell damage” Free Radical Research 38:9 (2004) pp. 927-932.



[3] Y. Kong,et al., Korea Cancer Center Hospital, “Influence of an orally effective superoxide dismutase (GLISODin)® on strenuous exercise-induced changes of blood antioxidant enzymes and plasma lactate” AACC Poster, Presented July 2004.



[4] M. Mac-Mary, J. Sainthillier, P. Creidi, J.P. Series, F. Vix, Ph. Humbert, “Evaluation of the Effect of GliSODin on the Intensity of Actinic Erythema,” presented at the CARD (Annual Congress of Dermatological Research) meeting in Brest, France, May 28th 2005.



[5] “GliSODin and Exposure to the Sun,” an open study conducted in France on 150 patients by 40 dermatologists following a protocol compiled by Catherine Laverdet, M.D., Nadine Pomarede, M.D. and Catherine Oliveres-Ghouti, M.D. Sponsored by ISOCELL Nutra, France. March 2005.




All from the distributor of Glisodins website http://www.plthomas....ds/glisodin.htm, so believe what u will , studies look valid to me.
also:
"The potential benefits to health of antioxidant enzymes supplied either
through dietary intake or supplementation is still a matter of
controversy. The development of dietary delivery systems using wheat
gliadin biopolymers as a natural carrier represents a new alternative.
Combination of antioxidant enzymes with this natural carrier not only
delayed their degradation (i.e. the superoxide dismutase, SOD) during
the gastrointestinal digestive process, but also promoted, in vivo, the
cellular defences by strengthening the antioxidant status. The effects
of supplementation for 28 days with a standardized melon SOD extract
either combined (Glisodin) or not with gliadin, were evaluated on
various oxidative-stress biomarkers. As already described there was no
change either in superoxide dismutase, catalase or glutathione
peroxidase activities in blood circulation or in the liver following
non-protected SOD supplementation. However, animals supplemented with
Glisodin showed a significant elevation in circulated antioxidant
enzymes activities, correlated with an increased resistance of red
blood cells to oxidative stress-induced hemolysis. In the presence of
Sin-1, a chemical donor of peroxynitrites, mitochondria from
hepatocytes regularly underwent membrane depolarization as the primary
biological event of the apoptosis cascade. Hepatocytes isolated from
animals supplemented with Glisodin presented a delayed depolarization
response and an enhanced resistance to oxidative stress-induced
apoptosis. It is concluded that supplementation with gliadin-combined
standardized melon SOD extract (Glisodin) promoted the cellular
antioxidant status and protected against oxidative stress-induced cell
death. 2004 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.


PMID: 15742357 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm......ve&db=pubmed...



>From full text:


"The results of this
animal study were dual: the Glisodin® dietary supplementation
not only promoted the circulating and
tissue antioxidant defences (increased SOD, Gpx and
catalase activities) but also improved cell resistance to
oxidative stress. In the circulation, RBC from animals
receiving Glisodin® were less susceptible to oxidativestress-
induced hemolysis. In addition hepatocytes from
animals receiving Glisodin® dietary supplementation
were resistant to peroxynitrite-induced apoptosis and
mitochondrial depolarization."

"Table 2. Effect of a supplementation with SOD-gliadin combination
on circulating antioxidants


Supplementation


Control Glisodin®
Antioxidant status (mmol/L) 1.39 ± 0.03 1.98 ± 0.06
SOD (U/g Hb) 1720 ± 125 3250 ± 255
Gpx (U/g Hb) 800 ± 33 1210 ± 89
Catalase (kU/g Hb) 35 ± 5 95 ± 6


Animals were fed every day with control diet or with control
diet supplemented with 1 mg/mouse/day of Glisodin® for
28 days. Blood samples were collected and SOD, Gpx and
catalase activities were evaluated in erythrocytes. Data represent
the mean ± SD of ten animals/group from one representative "

-btw i take 250 mg Glisodin a day. kas

[scottl]

Doesn't Duke Nukem have a theory about exercise boosting the body's defense from oxidative damage?

[scottl]

Umm Guys

I am NOT trying to disprovbe or deny the aforementioned antioxidants benefits.
its just that I wonder in the specific case of exercise induced damage what CAN I do about it.

lynx, life mirage, others?

If you go back to the thread where spook asked us what we wanted him to write about, I posted a related abstract there. I don't know that anyone fully understands what is going on in this area (believe that study was with weight training).

"exhaustive aerobic exercise"

How many of us do **exhaustive** aerobic exercise, ever?
As I recall that kind of exercise supresses the immune system which can be reversed/prevented by glutamine.

[biknut]

i'm not very impressed with Glisodin. is this the best they can say about it?

"The GliSODin® group had significantly lower cellular DNA damage"

"studies showed that blood levels of SOD were markedly increased"

"animals supplemented with Glisodin showed a significant elevation"

all they are saying is "significantly" and "markedly" and "significant"
why don't they say how much. could it be because since nothing else improves oxidative stress levels at all, any improvement no matter how small would be considered "significant". i doubt there is really much improvement or they would be bragging about it.

[eternaltraveler]

Can a mod or admin delete some of hazar's repetitive posts?

done

[hazar]

Dear Xanadu

Sorry for the repetitive posts as i have never joined a health forum before and and it was my first time here so i felt that i had some good websites at hand and other stuff to share that may be of use to every one in some way. so i relentlessly posted that info on as many topic as seemed fit to me. I assure you that my intention is always pure and self less. I didn't know that people here are already very positively aggressive about sharing ideas and information. I feel really bad now that i have disturbed you with my repetitive posts and hope that i will be very careful in the future.
Have a great day!

Hazar

[xanadu]

Hazar, I didn't mean to get on your case or give you a hard time. It's just that copying the same long post a dozen times serves no purpose. Welcome to the forum.

[hazar]

Hey Xan
Appreciate the welcome I understand your frustration buddy but what can i say i was also new to this forum business! it was like being in a dark room and frantically bouncing off the walls while irritating others in the room who already know their way around too well by now Good analogy uhh! Well now i understand how it work specially the thread stuff, see i am catching up. Well thanx for your reply and feel free to download the ebooks if you find them useful!

Enjoy!

Hazar

[london710]

biknut, read the last Table, Glisodin supplementation resulted in an increase in circulating SOD of 90%, an increase in Gpx of 50% and in Catalase of almost 200 %. I'd say that qualifies as a "significant" effect.

compare this to protantim, from their website:
"After 23 days, the mice showed a dose-dependent increase in SOD in red blood cells of up to 25%"
and
"At 30 days, red blood cells analyzed for SOD, CAT, and the antioxidant uric acid showed a small increase in SOD of 6% (not statistically significant), but showed a substantial increase in catalase of 29 ± 7%"

Now, for upregulation of these enzymes i believe Glisodin is more effective, based on available information. And for one fifth of the price

Also, deprenyl, centrophenoxine and bacopa alone has this effect, i believe.

The optimal ratio of these enzymes for life extension, thats another story.

[biknut]

hi london 710,

i don't know much about glisodin. i'm trying to study up on it now so i can have a intelligent conversation about it. i'm open minded, which is more than i can say about some people. first i looked at the glisodin web sight. not much help there. about the best i can find them saying about there own product is "significant".
same goes for this study you site PMID: 15742357 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
i can't get this one to open, http://www.ncbi.nlm.....eve&db=pubmed..
maybe you could copy it and send it to my email biknut@hotmail.com
i'm curious about this line from the table you site.
Antioxidant status (mmol/L) 1.39 ± 0.03 1.98 ± 0.06 what's this mean? it's the only numbers i see that might be close to anything on the protandim webb sight.
the rest look like apples and oranges.

[biknut]

hi london710,

after "significant" study i find that the table and study you site cannot be found. i find it very interesting that the glisodin webb sight does not site your study or table. they only state that the improvement is "significant". they do mention future studies are coming, but don't offer any reviews unlike the protandim webb sight. this doesn't mean glisodin doesn't work, it just seems that there is no way to tell how well at this time. there also is no way to tell from there webb sight.

[power.bulls.x]

Antioxidants definitively a good subject to share experience on.

What is the deals about resveratrol i cant remember the trade mare that were used used to the trials on resveratrol. Because others reveratrol sups are infective
http://www.resveratrolnews.com/


found the trade name it is longivex : http://www.imminst.o...t=0

also is reveratrol woth buying ?

resveratrol research grade: price found on the web:
10 mg $7.00
50 mg $21.00
100 mg $35.00
500 mg $140.00

Edited by pbx06, 27 December 2005 - 03:40 AM.

[london710]

hi biknut

The Glisodin website does site this particular study.
heres some other working links:
pubmed abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=15742357

link to similar discussion, with Table: http://groups.google...21fac93473077f6

Table also here: http://www.youngagai...m/glisodin.html

dont get me wrong, i would love to see protandim turn out to be a serious lifeextension supplement, i just dont think its good value for money. I would also love to see a mammal lifespan study of both protandim and glisodin.
glty, kas

[Shepard]

Protandim doesn't look very good to me. It is just compounds that should be supplemented with anyway, IMO, but in small doses and too expensive.