14 replies to this topic

[presently]

I'm very sensitive to supplements and try to be careful with initial doses. Based on the large doses that some people were taking with no ill effects, I thought 1g of piracetam with 450mg Alpha GPC choline would be safe to try.

Within an hour of taking this combination, I was seeing pixelation in my visual field, and about 8 hours into it, I felt like I was on Ecstasy, totally in love with the beauty of life and the richness of the moment. Not what I signed up for, but not a real problem so far. However...

Falling asleep that night I had a couple of discontinuities in my consciousness which felt like tiny seizures. I woke up the next day with many symptoms of acetylcholine overload - sore muscles, nausea, diarrhea, dizziness - and as the day went on, I had more symptoms - deep headache, vomiting, severe chills, sweating, stomach cramps. I took my temperature and it was normal, so I don't think I've had the flu. Almost 48 hours later I'm feeling mostly better, but only after taking some benadryl last night, which has anticholinergic effects. As the benadryl wears off, I'm noticing the headache, stomach pain and sore muscles coming back gradually.

After this happened, I noticed some other reports online of similar reactions, so I'm recording my experience here in hopes that people who know they are sensitive to supplements will be careful with this combination. These two compounds really potentiate each other. I took piracetam in the 1980s in dosages as high as 3g, and noticed almost no effect when taking it by itself.

[purerealm]

cool!

[prodigy2020]

450mg of AGPC is quite a bit. I'm not particularly sensitive to supplements, but I often feel like I've had a choline-overload (depending on what I ate that day) on only 300mg after taking 3.2g of piracetam. I only notice muscle stiffness in my neck and shoulders though. Vomiting and chills are a very bad sign. 8 hours is a long time for it to last, too. Usually effects die down for me after about 4 or 5 hours.

The general rule of thumb for AGPC is about 150-200mg per 1.6g of piracetam. Might wanna try taking a bit less next time [wis]

[vegeto]

I'm very sensitive to ZMA, at less than the reccomended dosage, with ZMA, I can't tell the difference between awake and dreaming! (like narcoleptic awake-dream transitions)

I haven't had effects like yours from piracetem and alpha gpc though.... Bump for you, how is it going now?

[presently]

I'm doing much better now, but I felt pretty out of it for almost a week. I tried Benadryl after reading online that it is anticholinergic, and it helped.

A couple of weeks later now, I've tried putting the smallest amount of piracetam and Alpha GPC I can fit on the end of a spoon into 8 oz. of water and taking a sip of it every other day. On the days when I do that, I get a headache, and on days I don't, I have no headache. My body either doesn't like this stuff at all, or my brain is exactly at my highest comfortable level of acetylcholine, so that even a tiny bit more puts me over. Strangely, picamilon has the same headachy effect on me at such tiny doses.

The most helpful thing I have found so far for my own chemistry (which tends towards drowsiness, brain fog, depression and social anxiety) has been l-theanine.

[someonestolecc]

lol I feel strange if I take 1 cap of alpha GPC with 4 caps of piracetam.

Why don't you try AGPC every now and again, in smaller doses and take piracetam as you would normally (perhaps not 1g at a time)?

[bgwowk]

Patient says to doctor, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

Doctor: "Then don't do that!"

---BrianW

[jegrx]

Wait, is a deep headache a sign of too much choline or not enough???

I've taking taking around 1.6g pirac/300-400mg A-GPC, 2-3 times a day. Is this too much choline? Should I take the pirac and A-GPC in the morning, and just pirac later in the day?

[mitkat]

They say too much choline can give you neck tension, while too little choline, especially when taking a racetam) can cause a headache. This seems to really vary from person to person, like I barely took any choline at all, except some lecithin, and now I just take centro.

Plus some people have a diet with enough choline present already, like rfarris and da_sense. If you think you might have a sensitivity to it, think about ingesting foods with more choline in them than supplementing.

[fitnecise]

just wanted to share my experience, which was pretty much the same as presentlys. Monday at about 3pm I took 1 gram of piracetam with 1 gram of choline citrate (it was recommended in a couple places to do this). was studying till 4am, felt fine, went to bed and woke up a little dizzy (about 9am). Went to my first class, still felt dizzy and had a slight headache. Next class (50 minutes later), starting feeling nautious, and starting sweating like crazy, then 10 minutes later was cold. Was more dizzy at this point, came back to my apartment and laid down, was very cold. A few hours later I vomited, had diarrhea, all that good stuff. Ended up vomiting once more that day (Tuesday). It is now wednesday, and I went to see the school nurse but she couldnt really diagnose anything (prolly assumed it was flu, as did I). Today I woke up and felt similar to yesterday but am getting better now. Had the symptoms that were listed above- sore muscles, nausea, diarrhea, dizziness, headache, voming, chills, and sweating.

Too much choline citrate?

[gcurrie]

There is some virus currently going around that has almost those exact same symptoms.

When it first came on for me, I woke up in the morning feeling like I had a mother of a hangover. Yet I had not had any alcohol for 72 hours. I was unbelivably dizzy and too bilious to eat. Things got worse from there.

I didn't eat solid food for 5 days.

[fitnecise]

hm I wonder if its just a coincidence. ive already lost 10 pounds and still have no appetite

[gcurrie]

Well, about 1 in 4 people at my workplace have been hit with it since early January. It's been pretty devastating to productivity.

The reason I mention it is that such severe and long-lasting reactions seem to be extremely rare with most of these substances, especially at these typical dosage levels. An atypical response suggests either an "allergic" type of reaction or some other unknown/coincidental factor.

[karitas]

this may be not the right thread to post this, but I don't want to fill up the board by starting another.

I have the opposite 'problem' to you (presently & others). I seem to be, subjectively, totally unaffected by these things.
For example, I am now up to 9mg Hydergine (4.5mg FAS morning and evening), with no (noticeable) effect.

I take 1g Centrophenoxine (no noticeable effect), which I thought should suffice for my choline needs, so decided to try 6g Piracetam on an empty stomach this morning (up till now I have been taking 3g in water spread over 8h, for antiaging purposes).
I'm not joking - absolutely no effect. Noticed nothing at all.
I then tried 800mg Aniracetam for lunch. Again - nothing.

So, really, I'm interested in suggestions as to why, and what to do about it (if need be).

Also, I'd like to know if anyone thinks there are any meaningful conclusions to be drawn from this, (other than 'we're all unique' sort of thing). Particularly with regard to benefits.
For example, I assume that if you don't feel the effects of Piracetam/Aniracetam then the cognitive enhancement in going to be much lower.
Would this apply for the antiaging benefits too?

[johnthornton]

I have a similar problem.
But I think that's an advantage:

The amount of things needed for antiaging is less than for cognitive enhancement, but whereas for cognitive enhancement the amount needed varies significantly for each individual, you need a certain amount for antiaging.

Take hydergine, if you don't feel any negative effect at 9mg, then you're getting far more antiaging benefit by being able to take 9mg than someone who can't take more than 1 or 2.
That's what I think, but I may be wrong. But I don't see how.

I go with it. You can get more health benefit before being limited by how much you can take before it starts to freak with your mind.