19 replies to this topic

[mitkat]

I've been reading online about the practise of injecting certain vitamins. All the research I've read is pretty much split down the middle - some disregarding it as a detrimental act, some reporting with gleaming praise (including Dr. Phil's front row sitting wife, heh). Before everyone jumps on this as supplement abuse, some doctor's recommend it, and even teach patients to do it at home. Does anyone have any opinions?

I'm interested in B12 specifically. Is it worthwhile? Obviously this would be an intramuscular injection.

[ajnast4r]

no, its not worthwhile at all... unless you have some sort of malabsorbtion. there is NO reason to inject vitamins. injecting daily runs a large risk of infection and a healthy body has no problem absorbing them orally, even only moderatly healthy.

sublingual methylcobalamin produces nearly the same serum levels as injection i believe

[mitkat]

Definately not daily! That would be totally ridiculous and unsafe for sure. I've just been reading a lot of conflicting reports, some saying one shot of B12 would be enough for a month. I'll dig up those links.

I've also been reading about sublingual b12 having a pretty high absorption, and that you'd just urinate the excess out anyways. awwww yeah

[scottl]

I suppose if you need practice with the injections...

[mitkat]

Come over and you can help dr. scott! Maybe you could prescribe it to me.

[brizel]

I have been using intravenous nutrient therapies in my practice for a number of years. There are definite advantages to using intravenous route of administration for various nutraceuticals. The most common is the use of IV Vitamin C therapy, 10 gram dose of vitamin C given intravenously produces bloodstream concentrations more than 25-fold higher than concentrations achieved from the same oral dose. Oral dose of vitamin C are limited to digestive ability. This ultra high serum concentration that is achieved by IV administration can be use therapeutically for the treatment of viral illness (e.g. Hepatitis C), Lymes disease and cancer. The potential mechanism for IV Vitamin C therapy appears to be formation of hydrogen peroxide, a chemical that can kill cells. (Study, published in the Sept. 12-16 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) 1. The use of Reduced Glutathione (GSH) is another example where IV administration has a tremendous range of therapeutic effects in the use of neurodegenative disordes e.g. parkinsons and ALS and oral absorption is so poor that increase serum levels can’t be detected. (2).
B12 on the other hand recent studies have shown oral vitamin B12 supplementation is a safe and effective treatment for the B12 deficiency state. Even when intrinsic factor is not present to aid in the absorption of vitamin B12 (pernicious anemia) or in other diseases that affect the usual absorption sites in the terminal ileum, oral therapy remains effective.


1) http://www.pnas.org/...ournalcode=pnas
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[xanadu]

I have to agree with ajnast on this one. Unless there is an absorbtion problem or some overwhelming reason to do it, why do it?

[wannafulfill]

Ajnast4r, I and everyone else I imagine appreciates all you bring to the forum, and I agree with your sentiments here, but you're being dogmatic when you claim a large risk of infection with daily sub-q shots. That's just ignorant.

[liorrh]

I'm interested in B12 and carnosine injections as I've heard great feedback about both. anyone has feedback or data on the subject? where can I ge them reasonabley priced?

[ajnast4r]

Ajnast4r, I and everyone else I imagine appreciates all you bring to the forum, and I agree with your sentiments here, but you're being dogmatic when you claim a large risk of infection with daily sub-q shots. That's just ignorant.

thanks

and i dont agree... injection runs the risk of infection, no matter how sterile you are. my sister for example, just got an infection in a vein from an IV that was put in in a good hospital. it just happens sometimes.

daily injections, and daily puncture wounds increase your risk of infection.

[xanadu]

Absolutely correct! People get infections in hospitals all the time and injections are one route they arrrive by. The medical profession will tell you it's a safe procedure if done correctly. Even if done correctly, and that assumes a lot, there is a risk with each procedure. They find deadly bacteria, staph and other bacteria with resistance to multiple antibiotics right on hospital walls and in the air. Anything that goes into your vein has bypassed over 95% of your body's defenses. Remember the story of the trojan horse? It was brought inside the gates and lead to the demise of the city.

I think you have to balance risk vs reward. If your doctor says you need an injection, take it. Even then you have to decide if it's important enough. If he says he'll give you b12 by injection, you have the option of preferring to take it by pill which is much safer. Getting a "better" level of vitamins in your system does not sound like a big enough reward to risk your life on, particularly when it will be an every day occurrance. A 1 in 1000 risk if taken daily means in a few years you have an excellent chance of an infection.

I would consider a subcutaneous injection under circumstances that I would refuse an IV injection. The risk is lower than IV but still higher than taking pills.

[raptor]

I have been using intravenous nutrient therapies in my practice for a number of years. There are definite advantages to using intravenous route of administration for various nutraceuticals. The most common is the use of IV Vitamin C therapy, 10 gram dose of vitamin C given intravenously produces bloodstream concentrations more than 25-fold higher than concentrations achieved from the same oral dose. Oral dose of vitamin C are limited to digestive ability. This ultra high serum concentration that is achieved by IV administration can be use therapeutically for the treatment of viral illness (e.g. Hepatitis C), Lymes disease and cancer. The potential mechanism for IV Vitamin C therapy appears to be formation of hydrogen peroxide, a chemical that can kill cells.  (Study, published in the Sept. 12-16 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) 1.  The use of Reduced Glutathione (GSH) is another example where IV administration has a tremendous range of therapeutic effects in the use of neurodegenative disordes e.g. parkinsons and ALS and oral absorption is so poor that increase serum levels can’t be detected. (2).
B12 on the other hand recent studies have shown oral vitamin B12 supplementation is a safe and effective treatment for the B12 deficiency state. Even when intrinsic factor is not present to aid in the absorption of vitamin B12 (pernicious anemia) or in other diseases that affect the usual absorption sites in the terminal ileum, oral therapy remains effective.


1) http://www.pnas.org/...ournalcode=pnas
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

A well written and on the point reply. There really should be no need to inject B12 for most people.

[scottl]

I have no doubt of the validity of injected vit c for many serious diseases. But that is not revant to most people here, and even for those with serious diseases should not be attempting it themselves.

[mitkat]

I never asked about the risk factors because it seemed so blatantly obvious to me. Thanks all, the info and arguments are always valuable!

edit: who ever even mentioned taking injections daily?

Edited by mitkat, 09 January 2006 - 03:27 AM.

[kurdishfella]

is sublingual b12 not pointless since you need intrinsic factor for it to be absorbed which dont exist in the gum?

[nickthird]

Hitler's doctor swore by this. He gave Hitler an injection a day of vitamins and other "stuff"...

[Galaxyshock]

Hitler's doctor swore by this. He gave Hitler an injection a day of vitamins and other "stuff"...

 

Actually I think it was up to 20 injections a day. Methamphetamine, opiates, barbiturates, atropine and bunch of other stuff including some vitamins.

[kurdishfella]

every1 shoud be on vitamin/mineral injection (daily or weekly?) because of the poor quality of food lacking nutrients and taking toll on the gut due to chemicals used etc further decreasing absorption and the rda should be doubled.

Edited by kurdishfella, 16 December 2020 - 11:14 AM.

[kurdishfella]

Its the hardest thing ive tried to do. Almost impossible for me unless your an expert. reddit.com/r/biology/comments/n6sb8i/injections_meant_for_animals_on_humans/

[kurdishfella]

Nutrients aren't worthwhile to inject for the normal person. You don't wanna hit an artery even though they are very flexible and move out of the way you can feel it more so than regular small veins depending on the location. If you do inject pick an smaller needle so incase you do hit an artery it will do the least amount of damage.