18 replies to this topic

[kneel]

I know the best way to get vitamin D is from the sun. But the fact is I am a habitual night owl and frequently miss the sunlight/days. Especially in the wintertime when the sun is not out for very long. So I have a few questions regarding vitamin D supplementation.

1. I recently bought some cod liver oil realizing it was probably one of the best supplement s for vitamin D. However it also packs a mean vitamin A punch. Which I don’t really need. So what is a safe dosing method for using this supplement? By the way I have Carlson’s Norwegian Cod Liver Oil if that matters to anyone who’s used this brand.

2. I also have a multivitamin with at least a 400IU dose of vitamin D. By the way one teaspoonful of Carlson’s Cod Liver Oil has the same amount. Which is the recommended serving. The Vitamin A in the Cod Liver Oil can be any where from 500 to 1200IU per serving. There is no Vitamin A in the multivitamin. Brand name Every Man’s One Daily by New Chapter. Which would you recommend taking?

3. Is there any other vitamin, mineral, herb etc? That I should be concerned about taking when I’m constantly missing the sunlight/daytime?

4. So if you like the Cod Liver approach how often should I use it? Also should I get my vitamin D levels tested before I begin just to make sure?

5. I mean I have no problem popping back the water-soluble vitamins. But when it comes to taking something that can be healthy in the right dose. But toxic in the wrong dose or when used too much. I tend to be concerned. Am I right in feeling this way?

6. Any other supplements you would recommend that I might not be familiar with?

Thanks in advance to all who response to my post. I’ve bought a lot of supplements in the past and I am now making sure to do my research and ask questions before I fork out the dough.

[brizel]

1. I recently bought some cod liver oil realizing it was probably one of the best supplement s for vitamin D. However it also packs a mean vitamin A punch. Which I don’t really need. So what is a safe dosing method for using this supplement? By the way I have Carlson’s Norwegian Cod Liver Oil if that matters to anyone who’s used this brand.

Vitamin A consumed in doses up to 5,000 I.U is perfectly safe. Vitamin A toxicity may occur in adults taking in excess of 50,000 I.U per day for a extended period of time. Safe dosing would be up to 4 teaspoons a day. Hypertoxicity from Vitamin A is rare but does occur on occasion. Most notable is the Eskimos whom eat seal as a mainstay in there diet.

2. I also have a multivitamin with at least a 400IU dose of vitamin D. By the way one teaspoonful of Carlson’s Cod Liver Oil has the same amount. Which is the recommended serving. The Vitamin A in the Cod Liver Oil can be any where from 500 to 1200IU per serving. There is no Vitamin A in the multivitamin. Brand name Every Man’s One Daily by New Chapter. Which would you recommend taking

?

Teaspoonful of Carlson’s Cod Liver Oil
Vitamin A= 1100IU
Vitamin D=400I.U
EPA=500
DHA=460

If you are using two or three teaspoons a day then between the multivitamin and the cod liver oil you should be getting 1200- 1600 I.U of Vitamin D per day which is more then ample.
In my practice I base the amount of Vitamin D I give to a patient after I get 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood levels. Recent medical literature has been suggesting that we have been to conservative with Vitamin D supplements and daily dosage suggestion have been pushed up from 400I.U a day to 1000 I.U per day. Obviously if a Serum blood test show you have a deficiency the amounts given are greatly increased.

3. Is there any other vitamin, mineral, herb etc? That I should be concerned about taking when I’m constantly missing the sunlight/daytime?

The only thing that comes to mind is if you are awake all night long and sleeping mostly in the daylight hours a disruption in normal circadian rhythms and the sleep/wake cycle occur which can effect your melatonin production. Make sure when you finally do get to sleep it is in a completely blacken out room to make sure you have adequate melatonin production.

4. So if you like the Cod Liver approach how often should I use it?

I prefer the use of highly concentrated fish oil which provides 2600mg of EPA/DHA per teaspoon serving significantly more potent allowing the use of higher doses also usually has much less of a fishy taste.

Also should I get my vitamin D levels tested before I begin just to make sure?

Would be of interest to get your 25-OH Vitamin D levels checked normal range is 20-100 ng/ml. Levels over 35 are optimal. When treating my patients I use pure encapsulation Vitamin D 5000 I.U per capsule and depending on the levels vary the dose taken on a weekly basis..

5. I mean I have no problem popping back the water-soluble vitamins. But when it comes to taking something that can be healthy in the right dose. But toxic in the wrong dose or when used too much. I tend to be concerned. Am I right in feeling this way?

Always better to be safe and cases of hypervitaminosis do occur in overzealous supplement users

[Paul Idol]

Two possibilities spring to mind: high-vitamin cod liver oil or Carlson's vitamin D supplements isolated from fish oil if you want to limit your A or PUFA.

[tham]

You may consider the metabolites of D3 :

First metabolite, Alfacalcidol, chemically 1(OH)D3. The original
brand name is One Alpha by Leo of Denmark.

The third metabolite, calcitriol, chemically 1,25(OH)2D3,
more active and expensive than alfacaldol. Original is
Rocaltriol, by Roche.

Both are commonly prescribed for osteoporosis at typical
doses of 0.5 mcg to 1 mcg daily, and have differentiating
action in cancer at high doses. Calcitriol has also been used
in psoriasis.

One 0.25 mcg tab of either one daily should be sufficient
for general supplementation and possible prevention of
osteoporosis and cancer.

Deficiencies of D3 has also been implicated in congestive
heart failure, and I give 0.25 mcg of alfacalcidol daily to
my father to support this condition as well as osteoporosis.

Some life extensionists apparently take either one as
part of their regimen.

It is generally not advisable to exceed 0.5 mcg chronically
to avoid hypercalcemia. You should also exercise
caution if you have kidney or thyroid problems.

Both are not exactly cheap. You would need a
prescription to get them in the States.

An alternative would be offshore pharmacies like this :

http://www.healthych...pha. AlfaD)&T=m

I can actually buy them over the counter here in Malaysia,
though they are not cheap either.

[ajnast4r]

theres no need for a healthy person to take alfacalcidol/calcitrol... standard cholecalciferol supplementation is fine for 90% of people.

2-3 teaspoon of carlsons is perfect, and you wont need any additional vitamin D pills. you can also get a full spectrum light(a REAL full spectrum light... make sure you check with whatever company, as theres no legal definition of 'full spectrum' and alot of them are just tinted lightbulbs).

i highly suggest you get a lightbulb/lightstack that will allow your body to produce its own vitamin-D in addition to your supplemental vitamin-D. "real" light has alot of other benefits you dont wanna miss out on.

also consider switching over to nordic naturals cod liver oil... the price is around the same, and its got alot less pcb/mercury

[xanadu]

Good point about the benefits of light. It does make a difference what spectrum you are exposed to. There are many studies showing things like s.a.d. are cured by exposure to full spectrum light. There is speculation that the pineal body responds to light and is involved in health.

[tham]

The above vitamin D analogs exhibit unique immunomodulatory
properties not found in plain vitamin D3 or D2.

Rocaltriol in particular appear to inhibit or regulate the inflammatory cytokines TNF-alpha, IL-1beta and IL-6,
associated with osteoporosis and autoimmune diseases,
as well as regulate countless other genes involved.

Since inflammatory cytokines rise in aging, and we grow
increasingly subsceptible to immune dysfunction and
breakdown with increasing age, and because they also
have benefits in the prevention of cancer and heart
failure as well, I think that alfacalcidol and rocaltriol
can be considered antiaging drugs and small doses,
such as 0.25 mcg a day or perhaps on alternate days,
of either should be included as part of a serious life
extension regimen.

This may well even be more true of the newer analogs,
such as doxercalciferol (Hectorol, a D2 analog), which
minimizes the risk of hypercalcemia.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Edited by tham, 09 February 2006 - 10:37 AM.

[syr_]

Recent medical literature has been suggesting that we have been to conservative with Vitamin D supplements and daily dosage suggestion have been pushed up from 400I.U a day to 1000 I.U per day.

So, which would be the recommende dosage of vit D supplementation? My Multivitamin has already 400IU. A multimineral I'm considering has other 400IU, which would make to 800. Probably not enough, should I get a specific vit D supplement?

[dayfly]

So, which would be the recommende dosage of vit D supplementation?

It all depends on your vitamin D levels in your blood. It's best to have them checked both, 1,25 Dihydroxy D3 and 25-Hydroxy D3 and set them in relation to eachother. The following link offers a good overview:

http://www.marshallp...forum2/366.html

I had my Vitamin D levels checked recently and although it's wintertime my levels are far too high. I would never take additional Vitamin D in a supplement!

[tham]

I had my Vitamin D levels checked recently and although it's wintertime my levels are far too high. I would never take additional Vitamin D in a supplement!

Your high D levels might well mean you have substantial
protection against cancer and other diseases of aging.

Vitamin D3 is the top on the list of nutrients in LEF's anticancer
protocol for inducing differentiation of cancer cells at
relatively high doses, 1,000 to 4,000 i.u. with some risk of
hypercalcemia.

That's why there has been a lot of research in recent years
to find a D3 analog which has potent differentiation action
with minimal hypercalcemia toxicity.

The only new orally active D3 analog (which minimizes
hypercalcemia) in the market in recent years is falecalcitriol
(Hornel, Fulstan) made by Taisho of Japan. The other two,
22-oxacalcitriol (Maxacalcitol) and paracalcitriol (Zemplar)
are injectable forms.

D2 also has good cancer differentiation activity.
The only new D2 oral analog which has lowered hypercalcemia
risks is doxercalciferol, 1-alpha(OH)D2 (Hectorol).

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Thus if one had cancer, the above two would be the
drugs of choice to take.

Edited by tham, 25 May 2006 - 05:01 PM.

[tham]

Further links on D3 :


http://www.knowledge...i...ill For All

http://www.scienceda...51228012407.htm

http://exchange.heal...00/vitamind.cfm

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Edited by tham, 15 March 2006 - 06:02 AM.

[syr_]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

Sardi advocacy seems confirmed by the above study - the safety upper level of Vit D3 intake is much higher that what was recommended before (ex. by LEF, 1400 IU) and the ideal dose would be placed between 2400 and 4000 IU.
The need of analogs which minimize hypercalcemia seems restricted to very high doses required for cancer treatment (10.000+IU).

[tham]

So, which would be the recommende dosage of vit D supplementation? My Multivitamin has already 400IU. A multimineral I'm considering has other 400IU, which would make to 800. Probably not enough, should I get a specific vit D supplement?

Taking an extra 1,000 i.u. would push your total D3 to
1,800 i.u., closer to the new recommended protective range.

http://betterlife.co...sp?prod_id=9203


Here's one with 2,000 i.u. :

http://betterlife.co...p?prod_id=23692


Further studies by Dr Vieth :

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum


I did write to Dr Vieth a few years ago and posted his comments
in the LEF forum, but apparently Tom Matthews, the well-informed
moderator at that time, did not agree with me.

http://forum.lef.org...&g=20141#m20141

[syr_]

I did write to Dr Vieth a few years ago and posted his comments
in the LEF forum, but apparently Tom Matthews, the well-informed
moderator at that time, did not agree with me.

http://forum.lef.org...&g=20141#m20141

LEF opinion is very conservative on vit D3 supplementation, or at least it was at the date of the articles I read on their site.

Until i find a study that reports hypercalcemia resulting from vit D3 supplementation of healthy people, I tend to consider that as concurrent secondary cause for it, not certainly primary. Also, the "massive" amount of cholecalciferol employed are not published in the extracts, but I bet were over 3-4000 IU.
Your references on LEF forum are a great source of information, thanks.

BTW, I consider myself at risk for skin cancer. I changed the dosing of my multimineral which provides only 200 IU of D3. 400 from the multivit lead to 600 IU. I'm taking 2 caps of AOR D3 1000 IU (NOW is very cheap, but i cant take softgels), totalling 2600 IU, which is above the 2400 new recommended protective range, but far below the 3000 and 4000 range considered now the upper limit.
I also plan to cut the extra 2000 IU during the summer or more specifically the weeks when I can sunbath.
I will eventually have a blood test if i find a decent lab able to provide reliable results and It should be a routine test in my yearly bloodtests.

[DukeNukem]

In the last six months, I've raised my D3 intake from roughly 600 IU to 2000 IU daily. Consider that 15 minutes in the sun can create 8000+ IU. As with vitamin C (I'm at 10-12 grams daily), vitamin D appears to be very strongly associated with cancer prevention.

RDA levels of C and D are merely to prevent fatal deficiencies. They are not useful as a life extension recommendation.

Just happened across this:
http://www.knowledge.....0Artery Walls

or

http://tinyurl.com/fs8xd

(Another study showing high dose vit. C is reverses arterial plaque.

Edited by dukenukem, 22 February 2006 - 05:15 PM.

[tham]

NOW is very cheap, but i cant take softgels

May I ask why you can't take softgels ?

[syr_]

May I ask why you can't take softgels ?

Yeah, I dont swallow, only pills and small caps. No coated tabs and softgels.

[syr_]

In the last six months, I've raised my D3 intake from roughly 600 IU to 2000 IU daily.  Consider that 15 minutes in the sun can create 8000+ IU.  As with vitamin C (I'm at 10-12 grams daily), vitamin D appears to be very strongly associated with cancer prevention.

RDA levels of C and D are merely to prevent fatal deficiencies.  They are not useful as a life extension recommendation.

http://tinyurl.com/fs8xd

(Another study showing high dose vit. C is reverses arterial plaque.

I'm not sure what that "high dose" was, but I would like to know.

Vit C at high doses gives me transient diarhea, which is not so transient. I cant go above 3g/day, but split in 3 doses is about fine. I also prefer buffered, since my stomach really dont like ascorbic acid.
I'm not sure how can you stand 10+g, I sort of envy you. BTW 5 grams did good enough to help me fight a cold recently.
Sardi recommends 2.5g to be the minimum for an adult. I'm pretty sure 3g is enough, unless you are fighting a cold or a virus.

BTW, out of curiosity, did you raise your calcium intake when you raised your vitamin D dosage?

[scottl]

2000 iu/day...may be ok, but at that level blood testying might not be a bad idea.