10 replies to this topic

[Paul Idol]

AORSupport's arguments against taking R-DHLA seem sound unless there's some new information I'm missing.

K-RALA is 20% "inert binder", whatever that is, and it's peaky.

Geronova apparently doesn't make a time-release R-ALA that doesn't contain R-DHLA, not to mention that R-ALA Gel is incredibly expensive.

And AOR's sustained release R-ALA is impossible to find — I can't even unearth a price at the moment. Not to mention that even if I could find it, it's probably very expensive, it's in a vegicap (meaning it won't be absorbed so well courtesy of our vegetarian friends) and it has undesirable fillers.

So what are the best available options when considering all factors, namely avoiding accidental pro-oxidation effects, maintaining even blood levels, maximizing absorption, avoiding digestive tract irritants, and not breaking the bank when taking large doses in conjunction with ALCar and PLCar?

I've run out of Geronova's R-ALA Gel and K-R-ALA powder and I frankly have no idea what to replace them with.

[rfarris]

GeroNova's R-Plus has no R-DHLA.

(Did I just say that? I'm an idiot. Of course it has R-DHLA. It doesn't have toctrionols, or however you spell it...)

[ajnast4r]

K-RALA is 20% "inert binder", whatever that is, and it's peaky.

krala pills are listed in elemental value, 100mg pill = 100mg k-rala

Geronova apparently doesn't make a time-release

their r-la gel is sustained release

it's in a vegicap (meaning it won't be absorbed so well courtesy of our vegetarian friends)

i dont know where you got THAT rediculous idea... unless your a CAT you can digest veggie caps just fine.





IMO geronova RLA gel is the way to go

[Paul Idol]

ajnast4r-

rala pills are listed in elemental value, 100mg pill = 100mg k-rala

Duh.

That has nothing to do with the fact that KRALA is only 40% RALA by weight. 20% is K, 20% is "inert binder". I don't presently know what that inert binder is.

their r-la gel is sustained release

I would appreciate it if you refrain from altering the meaning of my statements by partial quoting. I said this:

Geronova apparently doesn't make a time-release R-ALA that doesn't contain R-DHLA

Plainly I understand that R-ALA Gel is sustained release. My problem with it is that it contains R-DHLA.

i dont know where you got THAT rediculous idea... unless your a CAT you can digest veggie caps just fine.

If you want, I'll provide you with references. But only if you'll actually read what I say.

[kerastasey]

I think the main problem with R-DHLA is that it can reduce free iron from Fe3+ to Fe2+ which accelerates iron-dependent OH. generation and lipid peroxidation.
(I think it may also generate reactive sulphur-containing radicals that can damage certain proteins).

But this is a typical example of AOR being dishonest with their selective-fact sales pitch, as this is only a problem with R-DHLA taken in isolation.

R-LA is a powerful scavenger of hydroxyl radicals and inhibits Fe-dependent OH. generation and peroxidation by binding to the iron ions and rendering them redox-inactive.

Which is why R-DHLA in isolation (the LEF product) is bad.
But the combination is not. In fact, I think overall it's supposed to be better than R-LA on it's own.
NB. R-LA is reduced to R-DHLA intracellularly anyway...

[Paul Idol]

I think the main problem with R-DHLA is that it can reduce free iron from Fe3+ to Fe2+ which accelerates iron-dependent OH. generation and lipid peroxidation.
(I think it may also generate reactive sulphur-containing radicals that can damage certain proteins).

But this is a typical example of AOR being dishonest with their selective-fact sales pitch, as this is only a problem with R-DHLA taken in isolation.

Is there documentation available to this effect? And is there a known minimum ratio of R-ALA:R-DHLA, for example, which is required to prevent the problem?

But the combination is not.  In fact, I think overall it's supposed to be better than R-LA on it's own.

Better in what way?

NB. R-LA is reduced to R-DHLA intracellularly anyway...

True. AORSupport's argument, though, was that the reduction process is actually beneficial in this case, and that by taking reduced R-ALA, we're bypassing that beneficial pathway.

I don't pretend to have the answers to this, but I'd sure like to see some convincing ones.

[kevink]

I don't pretend to have the answers to this, but I'd sure like to see some convincing ones.

Geronova's got a whole page on R-DHLA and references many studies...

http://www.geronova.com/dhla.htm

[ajnast4r]

If you want, I'll provide you with references.  But only if you'll actually read what I say.

i will read it.

i know my vegecaps are nearly completely broken down in just WATER, within 10 minutes... i test every bag i buy to make sure they disolve properly.

i dont see how simple plant cellulose isnt going to break down in the digestive tract, or how it would in any way hinder absorbtion.

20% is K, 20% is "inert binder". I don't presently know what that inert binder is.

probably maltodextrin, call them.

Plainly I understand that R-ALA Gel is sustained release. My problem with it is that it contains R-DHLA.

yea thats my bad, i though rala gel was just r-la


you also need to calm down guy... no need to get all defensive [thumb]

[kerastasey]

if you want a guy with a defensiveness problem, check out xanadu on this post http://www.imminst.o...st=0#entry89984

Geronova's the main source, but I can email you (Paul Idol) the references and documents I've collected (and mostly forgotten).
I know practically nothing about everything else everyone here is talking about on this forum except R-lipoic which I credit with stopping the joint inflamation which threatened to end my piano recitals.

I think the ideal is 50% each as they form a redox couple, and R-DHLA goes straight in carrying it's reducted (anti-oxidant) state with it. I'll look it up if you want...
What briefly were AOR Support's arguements against R-DHLA, out of interest?

[xanadu]

kerastasey, can you disprove anything that was said in that post? Or do you just prefer to take little potshots?

[caver]

i dont know where you got THAT rediculous idea... unless your a CAT you can digest veggie caps just fine.

HAHAHA!
0o0oo0000ooo...

So, Geronova's k-rala: ~How much need be taken to "ensure" a reasonably beneficial (ie:health improving/life extending) dose. If you have an aproximation please share...

Share the love yo...