28 replies to this topic

[manowater989]

[mellow] I'm sorry to sound so pessimistic, but I just....this can't really work, can it? I mean, I just don't picture it ever really happening, even if scientifically it seems like it should be possible, I just can't picture it ever actually happening. Please, someone, convince me I'm wrong.

[John Schloendorn]

There is only one way to find out.

[JonesGuy]

Well look, either aging is natural or it isn't.

We have full dominion over the natural world. There is nothing that's 'natural' that we cannot eventually effect.

Aging is a huge problem, uploading is a huge problem. But, we're getting better and better. As well, because of compounding returns, eventually the investment will pay off.

If you want a million dollars when you retire, it's easiest to begin a savings plan early.

Manowater: how long do you think you have before you can expect to die of old age? Take that number, and look back that number in history, and see the changes that have been made.

What do you think our greatest barrier is?

[Mind]

I am a rational optimist. It is going to work. I see profound discoveries in diverse fields of inquiry everyday. The aging problem is one of them. Aging will be conquered.

[th3hegem0n]

I just can't picture it ever actually happening

If "picturing" something was a necessary prerequisit for something happening, then how much would really happen?

How clearly do you have to "picture" something before it is "allowed" to happen?



Did you picture the 100 people that died in the 1 minute it took me to write this post?

[manowater989]

You're right, of course, logically. I'm just feeling....pessimistic.

[th3hegem0n]

If your pessimism is a product of boredom, then perhaps you should try to come up with something to occupy you that can advance the cause of immortality, transhumanism, or singularitarianism. If you can't think of anything, then simply keep harrassing everyone around here until someone gives you an answer.

If your pessimism is a product of simply not believing the technical aspects, the only way to cure this pessimism is to either declare the ideas as impossible or not impossible arbitrarily, or to persue a long and arduous education of the field in question until such a point that you can carry on an argument with someone for or against the technical feasability of immortality, etc.

If your pessimism is a product of some vague and misunderstood subjective feeling then you should either simply annihilate that feeling arbitrarily, or attempt to identify this feeling in a more concrete way and determine why you feel this way and how you should feel in the given situation.

etc.

[spiritus]

Pessimism is an outlook of faliure.
Optomizim is an outlook of success.

The latter is only the better of two bads.

-

We are going to do this. It is going to be rough, yes. But it will begin with a significant life extention technique that will allow us to live until further advances are made.

You should try to be active, at least contact 1 local lab. If everyone did this on this forum, a couple labs would take it up.

Keep fit and healthy, take those supplements and take care of yourself. You will see the advances. Stay tuned here to be the first to find out about the breakthroughs you will need to apply to stay alive.

I have no doubt in my mind that right now I am immortal because my future will insure that.

[brandonreinhart]

Strive to develop an optimistic view of the world. Fight cynicism and negativity. This does not mean to lose a healthy skepticism, it means to pursue achievement and success. You must anticipate victory to achieve victory. "Fuel action with positive expectation."

[spiritus]

Indeed if we are to achieve immortality we shouldn't hope or pray. We should command and demand and expect nothing but the best in achievements and advancements and never, not even for one second doubt that we will be achieving this goal soon, when God grants it to us.

[manofsan]

Well, it makes me wonder whether the key hurdles in significant life-extension aren't so much technical as financial. When we see things like the X Prize, we can see that there are ideas and solution proposals out there, but they just lack the seed money to get their ball rolling.

It makes me wonder whether someone shouldn't propose venture capital funding related to life-extension work. This would then help to organize capital around accomplishing the mission of life-extension.

If we are technologically on the cusp of something amazing as life-extension, then the power of money will certainly help to push us over that cusp sooner.

And why wouldn't life insurance companies be peripherally interested in anything that delays the event that cashes in a claim?

Perhaps we need to invite onto this board people who are more investment savvy, and who while not being technically skilled enough to advance the field in a hands-on way, can nevertheless contribute financial muscle, which is incredibly important regardless of the endeavor.

And let's face it, rich people tend to be more interested in living longer lives, because they have more to live for. It's a lot more satisfying than doing a few orbits around planet earth. There's a big complementarity of interests that needs to be matched up here. There are people who while they may not be medical researchers themselves, nevertheless are people with financial means who have a strong desire to go on living, and there are those who are more directly involved with the hands-on research around anti-aging, who deserve to get support for their work, which would ultimately allow all humanity to benefit.

We need to talk about raising/attracting capital, because once you have that, then you can bring in the R&D managers and the technically skilled workers necessary to get the job done. Or at least, you can link up with those already doing the technical work, and amplify their efforts.

For instance, I was reading about the idea of Accelerator Funds

http://www.maxlife.o...rator_Fund.html

[Matt]

Anyone want to give Richard Branson or Bill Gates a call... =/

In terms of funding for this kind of resarch, are very rich people like those i mentioned unwilling to donate some money to extending life because of public perception.... I mean wouldn't there be a lot people asking questiosn like, why not donate to all those starving children or to some other charity...

I'm sure those two and many other billionaires, millionaires have heard of anti aging research and even the mprize. but still only a few wealthy people havve stepped forward to donate.

Since watching a few videos of aubrey at conferences dating back a few years... it's always been 10 - 15 years... and it's still 10-15 years away because the funding still isn't there. WIll it carry on like this for another 5 years? or more?

The message is getting out there but as they say "it's going in one ear and out the other". Something has to change soon.

[John Schloendorn]

Something has to change soon.

It is changing all the time. But it is necessarily being done slowly and gradually. TV presentation follows conference, follows research result, follows a little donation, follows TV presentation... As Nick Bostrom put it, we need to "gnaw and pull", bit by bit, all the time.

[th3hegem0n]

It's funny because in fiction the plot tends to be the richest of the rich investing millions and billions into some scheme that grants them immortality. But in reality, this just isn't true, yet.

[justinb]

There is only one way to find out.

[justinb]

There is only one way to find out.

[justinb]

There is only one way to find out.

[justinb]

There is only one way to find out.

[justinb]

There is only one way to find out.

[th3hegem0n]

lil excited there buddy?

hehe

[bgwowk]

Matt wrote:

Since watching a few videos of aubrey at conferences dating back a few years... it's always been 10 - 15 years... and it's still 10-15 years away because the funding still isn't there. WIll it carry on like this for another 5 years? or more?

I've been watching this go on for 30 YEARS. Circa 1980 I told my own parents that they had a shot at immortality via "escape velocity" (although that term hadn't been invented yet). I remember my exact words over dinner one night, "It all depends on what happens in the next 15 years."

In 1986 I told 40-something cryonicist Thomas Donaldson in an email (yes, there was email in 1986) the same thing. He replied that there was "an excellent chance only very young children might see immortality." Less than two years later he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. He ended that email of 20 years ago by saying that interest in immortality comes and goes like the tide. "But sooner or later something's going to happen. It's got to."

---BrianW

[apocalypse]

It's funny because in fiction the plot tends to be the richest of the rich investing millions and billions into some scheme that grants them immortality. But in reality, this just isn't true, yet.-th3hegem0n

That we know, I certainly wouldn't invest publically if I was one of the top billionaires. It's practically an existencial risk, envious individuals would probably just try to nail you for doing so.

I second prometheus on the rate of advance, I've always been trying to keep up with the latest advances and it's just mindboggling, I often can't even read all that's happened in a single day worth of news(tech/aging/biotech ones mostly) within that same day(and I sometimes give up to 5-6+hrs to such endeavors.). I said it before and I'll say it again I believe that in less than 30yrs we should have a firm grasp of the nature of aging and ways to substantially or indefinitely postpone it, once it becomes evident to the masses the beast can be slayed(as proof of principle examples in other species are shown in addition to the solid data..), funding will pour in massively.

[bgwowk]

prometheus wrote:

An estimate of 50 years to come up with widely available, radical life extention treatments would be a highly conservative estimate at this time.

Yes, I would be surprised if aging isn't taken care of by the mid 21st century.

---BrianW

[manofsan]

And yet we can't afford to end up unpleasantly surprised. I feel we really need to take matters into our own hands, to help the process along. There are people who don't want the earth to overheat from global warming, but they're not just sitting on their hands waiting for technology to eventually solve the problem. People have organized themselves into environmental lobbies, pressured their politicians into launching govt-funded programs, set up investment mutual funds -- they've created a green market, under a green brandname.

In order to bring to bear intellectual capital towards dealing with the aging problem, we need to do all the same things. We need to muster private financial capital, lobby for political support by making this a public policy issue, and marketing the anti-aging mantra far and wide.

Think of the incredible voting power of the AARP(American Association for Retired People) in the US. Politicians can't afford to scrap the expensive Social Security program even though they know they can't fulfil it, for fear of antagonizing the huge voter constituency that the elderly represent. The outgoing US Fed Reserve Chairman had recommended that the mandatory retirement age consequently be gradually elevated repeatedly in the future.

The only way to avoid a fiscal meltdown is to come up with technological band-aids. Anti-aging research is the only way to avoid breaking fundamental social contracts that are part of the bedrock of society, just like alternative energy research is the only way to stop global warming. So we should be willing to use alarmist language like 'ticking time-bomb' just as environmentalists have, in order to get the requisite attention. Life-extension is not just a convenience or luxury, it's a necessity.

But while the elderly suffer from physical aging, they are uniquely abundant in experience, and we need to tap it for our cause. The elderly also do a lot of social networking and we need to leverage that too.
Has anybody heard of SCORE (Service Corps Of Retired Executives) for example?

http://www.score.org/

They're a non-profit group made up of retired businessmen who give free advice to people starting or running businesses. I've been individually emailing people from SCORE to solicit advice on the workings of venture capital, and also to proselytize on the anti-aging movement.
We don't have to look for Bill Gates/Paul Allen/Dennis Tito/Jeff Besos' email address when there are already plenty of not-quite-so-famous people available in large numbers.

We're going to have to increasingly delve into the world of capital -- an interesting world in its own right -- to bridge the gap between bioscience's promise and social reality.

[John Schloendorn]

Anti-aging research is the only way to avoid breaking fundamental social contracts [...] use alarmist language like 'ticking time-bomb'

Well said, I love the idea! Is the aging "ticking time-bomb" suitable as a title/theme of book2? It would also be a good title for a journal article. Or can someone with time try to make a cartoon depicting this, similar to environmentalists' earth with a burning fuse?

[boundlesslife]

We're going to have to increasingly delve into the world of capital -- an interesting world in its own right -- to bridge the gap between bioscience's promise and social reality.

The book "Three Billion New Capitalists" and others like it point to surges of development that (especially in the case of China) suggest a solution to the "What do we do about an aging population?" question by way of eliminating both birth and death... From that point on, expansion of population could be related to measures of sustainability, thus challenging technology to provide for it by approaches such as Paolo Soleri suggested 35+ years ago in his book, Arcology - City in the Image of Man.

Humankind, on the other hand, might elect to support and foster wars, fundamantalist religions, primitive urges leading toward overpopulation, and (consequent) environmental destruction to the end of obiteration of itself as a species. We can't predict the future, or control it fully either. However, we can attempt to break down conceptual walls which lead to mass-misvisualizations of reality, and in the end this might "make a difference".

boundlesslife

(Links to sources cited. "Arcology - City in the Image of Man" available at "Arcosanti" site.)

Three Billion New Capitalists

Solari Website Page re: Arcology - City in the Image of Man

"Arcosanti" Website (Main)

[justinb]

lil excited there buddy?

hehe

That, and the point was in the quantity.