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Korea


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#61 Lazarus Long

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 06:13 AM

It is basically our fault and I hope this goes towards demonstrating domestically how incompetent this administration, and the Republican majority have been in their policies.

This did not have to happen. We gave up control of the situation for political props and then couldn't back it up. Yes there will be a response, no it won't be militarily for now, and you are correct it will likely not be of any real import.

This was a test of the ability not a bomb for the record. The device supposedly weighed in at 10 tons but it is more than likely going to start an Asian nuclear arms race. Japan will likely go nuclear and change their Constitution.

There is not much anyone can do as we have already pushed them pretty far but let's watch the Chinese, as they, S Korea and the Russians are in the best position to do something. All we can do is blockade and that is not going to be easy.

For the record they expect that after 6 months or a year that the world will just have to accept that they have joined the club. The Koreans are saying exactly as I predicted after the axis of evil speech that they are doing this because they were included in that speech, they think that if Saddam had had the bomb we would not have invaded, and we are the ones that demonstrated an altered policy to preemptive strike so we have given them no reason to negotiate. They assume that like Pakistan the world must accept a fait accompli.

I hope everyone is satisfied with the return to MAD as policy. You might as well get comfortable as the last time we entered a Cold war it was 50 years before it was over. This time it will be more confusing.

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 06:27 AM

Iran will shortly follow.

These are the consequences of not engaging such regimes diplomatically.

#63 attis

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 07:11 AM

I think the bigger problem is that such regimes were spawned by the 'West' insomuch that the 'West' did not consider leaving well enough alone, allowing people to fall under the shadow of socialism to learn the hard way that such command economies don't work. And more so, to show respect for national sovereignty and the democratic self-determination of people. Yet, the 'West' decided it knew best for everyone and decided to prop up regimes that were so violent, that the alternative looked great by comparison.

But for North Korea, this is a classic case of self-imposed isolation, the people of North Korea really believe their leader is ineffible, in fact they are taught this in school at an early age. To tell such a person their leader is effible and limited like the rest of us is like telling a devout Catholic that the Pope does not represent God's will on Earth, in that it has the same shocking effect. I hope though, that the PRC has good sense to keep North Korea in line and not let old Kimmie push any big red buttons on anyone, but I have my doubts that their intentions to do as such [I think they're the ones that want to happen, all the more to have the excuse to invade Taiwan and Japan.].

Ultimately, I think this signals a coming dark age and that our wishes to live longer may become a necessity just to keep the spark of civilization alive... But that's just me.

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#64 zoolander

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 08:04 AM

What about this....

Posted Image

North Korea reports success in first nuclear test

North Korea has conducted its first nuclear weapons test, according to an announcement released today by the state-run Korean Central News Agency. The country is now the eighth in the world to have acquired these capabilities. Here is the text of today's announcement:

    The field of scientific research in the DPRK successfully conducted an underground nuclear test under secure conditions on October 9, 2006, at a stirring time when all the people of the country are making a great leap forward in the building of a great, prosperous, powerful socialist nation.

    It has been confirmed that there was no such danger as radioactive emission in the course of the nuclear test as it was carried out under scientific consideration and careful calculation.

    The nuclear test was conducted with indigenous wisdom and technology 100 percent. It marks a historic event as it greatly encouraged and pleased the KPA and people that have wished to have powerful self-reliant defense capability.

    It will contribute to defending the peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula and in the area around it.

Link. DPRK = Democratic People's Republic of Korea, KPA = Korean People's Army. Here's a related NYT article by David Sanger.


someone with 2 brains checked if there was a nuclear bomb set off in korea

If North Korea did manage to blow up a nuke of any sizable yield, it would show up as an earthquake on the various monitoring sites. Sure enough. There is a quake in NK at about the right time. Shows as a magnitude 4.2 blast.

Posted Image

linky


Damn it! I better switch off the iron and tell the missus

#65 jaydfox

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 03:41 PM

Another dramatic failure for the simplie-minded, "you can't send mixed messages" philosophy of the current leadership. We sent a clear message alright. Arm yourself before it's too late.

#66 attis

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 04:28 AM

I prefer a straight jacket, jayd. ;)

#67 Matt

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:57 AM

I'm suprised no one here is talking about this, unless I've missed it. But heres the latest I've seen about the situation with N korea. You reckon there will be war?

Bush urges stiff sanctions; N. Korea threatens "war"

WASHINGTON – President Bush called today for stiff sanctions on North Korea for its reported nuclear test. Earlier, North Korea had warned that further sanctions would be consider an act of war. In a Rose Garden news conference, Bush said the United States asserted that the United States has "no intentions of attacking" the reclusive regime and remains committed to diplomacy, but also "reserves all options to defend our friends in the region." He also vowed increased military cooperation with allies, including bolstering ballistic missile defenses in the region and increased efforts to prevent Pyongyang from importing missile and nuclear technology.

As Bush spoke, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged the United States to hold one-on-one talks with North Korea, something the U.S. has refused to do. Bush rejected criticism from Democrats that his administration had not paid enough attention to the brewing North Korean nuclear crisis, saying that Pyongyang had turned its back on a 1994 deal negotiated by the Clinton administration. "It is the intransigence of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong Il, that led to the current situation, he said.

As to direct talks with North Korea, as the U.N. secretary general and many other diplomats have urged, Bush suggested that direct Clinton administration contacts with the communist regime showed they were unprofitable. "It didn't work in the past. ... I learned a lesson from that. You have a better diplomatic hand with others sending the message," Bush said. He supports a resumption of six-way talks among North Korea, South Korea, China, Russia, Japan and the United States.

Such talks have been suspended for more than a year. North Korea stoked tensions by threatening more nuclear tests and saying additional sanctions imposed on it would be considered an act of war, as nervous neighbors raced to bolster defenses and punish Pyongyang. South Korea said it was making sure its troops were prepared for atomic warfare, and Japan imposed new economic sanctions to hit the economic lifeline of the communist nation's 1 million-member military, the world's fifth-largest.

North Korea, in its first formal statement since Monday's claimed atomic bomb test, hailed the blast as a success and said attempts by the outside world to penalize North Korea with sanctions would be considered an act of war. Further pressure will be countered with physical retaliation, the North's Foreign Ministry warned in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency. "If the U.S. keeps pestering us and increases pressure, we will regard it as a declaration of war and will take a series of physical corresponding measures," the statement, said without specifying what those measures could be.

North Korea's No. 2 leader Kim Yong Nam threatened in an interview with a Japanese news agency that there would be more nuclear tests if Washington continued what he called its "hostile attitude." Kim, second to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, told Kyodo News agency that further nuclear testing would hinge on U.S. policy toward his communist government.

"The issue of future nuclear tests is linked to U.S. policy toward our country," Kim Yong Nam was quoted as saying when asked whether Pyongyang will conduct more tests.

Along the razor-wired no-man's-land separating the divided Koreas, communist troops were more boldly trying to provoke their southern counterparts: spitting across the demarcation line, making throat-slashing hand gestures, flashing their middle finger and trying to talk to the troops, said U.S. Army Maj. Jose DeVarona of Fayetteville, N.C., adding that the overall situation was calm. On the streets of North Korea's capital, it seemed like business as usual. Video by AP Television News showed people milling about Kim II Sung square in Pyongyang and rehearsing a performance for the 80th anniversary of the "Down with Imperialism Union."

South Korean Defense Minister Yoon Kwang-ung said that Seoul could enlarge its conventional arsenal to deal with a potentially nuclear-armed North Korea. Scientists and other governments have said Monday's underground test has yet to be confirmed, with some experts saying the blast was significantly smaller than even the first nuclear bombs dropped on Japan during World War II. North Korea appeared to respond to that Wednesday, saying in its statement that it "successfully conducted an underground nuclear test under secure conditions." In rare direct criticism of the communist regime from Seoul, South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun said the security threat cited by North Korea "either does not exist in reality, or is very exaggerated," according to South Korea's Yonhap news agency. He spoke even as South Korea's military was checking its readiness for nuclear attack, Yonhap said. The Joint Chiefs of Staff recommended improving defenses, possibly with state-of-the-art weapons to destroy nuclear missiles, the report said.

The top U.S. general in South Korea said American forces are fully capable of deterring an attack despite the North's still-unconfirmed nuclear test. "Be assured that the alliance has the forces necessary to deter aggression, and should deterrence fail, decisively defeat any North Korean attack against" South Korea, U.S. Army Gen. B.B. Bell said in a statement to troops. "U.S. forces have been well- trained to confront nuclear, biological and chemical threats." About 29,500 U.S. soldiers are deployed in the South, a remnant of the 1950-53 Korean War that ended in a cease-fire, not a formal peace treaty. Bell said seismic waves detected after the claimed test were still being analyzed and it had not been yet determined if the test was successful.

Japan took steps to punish North Korea for the test, prohibiting its ships from entering Japanese ports and imposing a total ban on imports from the impoverished nation. North Korean nationals are also prohibited from entering Japan, with limited exceptions, the Cabinet Office said in a statement released after an emergency security meeting late Wednesday. "We cannot tolerate North Korea's actions if we are to protect Japanese lives and property," Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said after an emergency security meeting late Wednesday. "These measures were taken to protect the peace." A total ban on imports and ships could be disastrous for North Korea, whose produce such as clams and mushroom earns precious foreign currency on the Japanese market. Ferries also serve as a major conduit of communication between the two countries, which have no diplomatic relations. Two dozen North Korea-registered trade ships are moored at Japanese ports, according to public broadcaster NHK. Local traders already were refusing to unload shipments to protest the alleged test, and the boats were expected to be ordered out, NHK said. Tokyo already has halted food aid and imposed limited financial sanctions against North Korea after it test-fired seven missiles into waters between Japan and the Korean peninsula in July, including one capable of reaching the United States.

Continued here:
http://seattletimes....ebnkorea11.html

#68 Lazarus Long

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 03:15 AM

For the record a state of war has existed with the DPRK for over 50 years.

And yes we did mention it but few picked up on it. It is this thread, Korea .

#69 Mind

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 07:04 AM

North Korea could start a war, but it would never win a war. The country is not big enough nor does it have enough resources to fight a major war for more than a week. It would be a great tragedy, but not armageddon.

[Edit(Matthias): merged the last 3 posts from another topic into this one]

Edited by Matthias, 17 October 2006 - 01:18 AM.





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