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#31 xanadu

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 07:07 PM

My pound of xylitol arrived today. I mixed 1/2 tsp with my glass of water. The taste wasn't that noticeable, I'm sure I'll get used to it. I'll report back in a few days or so on how it seems to affect plaque. Ajnast, what benefits have you noticed or is it hard to tell?

#32 ajnast4r

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 07:10 PM

ive been brushing 3x a day with the spry toothpaste, using the spry mouthwash 1-2 times, and chewing the spry gum 2-3 times a day.

maybe its all in my head... but i swear my teeth are less gritty after a meal or snack. they just feel smoother and cleaner all the time.

#33 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 07:21 PM

I think its probably in your head -- I don't think you'd be able to feel bacteria as grittyness or the lack of bacteria as smoothness. They probably feel smooth and clean all the time because you are brushing 3x a day. ;)

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#34 ajnast4r

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 08:07 PM

I think its probably in your head -- I don't think you'd be able to feel bacteria as grittyness or the lack of bacteria as smoothness.  They probably feel smooth and clean all the time because you are brushing 3x a day.  ;)


i normally brush after every meal... but sometimes i snack mid-day, usually a sweet. i notice my teeth being less gritty after sweets than normal when using the xylitol stuff.

unless im misunderstood... bacteria = plaque and plaque = sticky which = gritty after eating. again, it MIGHT be in my head... but i think there is something to it.

#35 xanadu

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:04 PM

funk, you can certainly feel the plaque if you have some on your teeth. Plaque is mostly made up of bacteria. You get a smooth clean feeling after a good brushing and after a day with no brushing, you notice the plaque. I try to always drink water after and during eating to wash out the food particles and avoid plaque build up. Even more so after drinking something with sugar in it like fruit juice.

Ajnast, I'm not going as far as you, once a day will just have to do it. I do like the fact that I now have an easy way to get rid of plaque. I can't tell yet if it's working but in a few days I should have an idea. My teeth do feel clean right now but that may be the good old placebo effect. We shall see. It's certainly cheap and with very little effort involved.

#36 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 09:24 PM

I know that you can feel plaque on your teeth. I just don't think you can feel the number of bacteria on your teeth in between meals when you are brushing 3x a day. At that rate of brushing, your teeth are likely to be smooth and clean most of the time no matter what particular products were used. In my humble opinion its a placebo effect, although most likely the Xylitol really is reducing the microbial population of your oral cavity, I just don't think it would be easily "felt" vs. brushing 3x daily and not using xylitol.

Again, I could be wrong

#37 xanadu

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 09:29 PM

The studies indicate you are wrong, funk. Not about knowing the number of bacteria, like 5,147 or something, but indicating that less plaque was formed, gums were healthier and so on. You might be right about not being able to tell by feel when you brush 3x per day. I only brush 1x so I should be able to tell.

#38 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 09:51 PM

You know what I'm trying to say. When I first saw ajnastr's xylitol testimonial, it read to me like this:

"I'm brushing my teeth a gazillion times a day and now they feel cleaner and smoother! It must be the xylitol!"

Do you see where I'm coming from? ;)

p.s. I know xylitol does work and does effectively reduce plaque formation for the record

#39 ajnast4r

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 11:43 PM

no no, thats not what im saying...

im saying like if i have a snack, without brushing my teeth... immidiatly after the snack my teeth will not get gritty and sticky.

could be in my head *shrug*

i have bad teeth though, just prone to cavities for whatever reason... it would be super sweet if i could get this cavity i have to remineralize!

#40 curious_sle

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 02:06 PM

indeed we live in the dark ages of tooth help. ick. well, will ifnally go ahead and get profesional mouthcleaning twice a year in the future... i do have cavities that don't seem to worsen so i don't want a dentist to mess arround honestly. any ideas how to improve remineralisation? some dentists feature a procedure to do just that i'd just like to know what it's exactly and what it is called so i can ask for it informedly. (alwys need to know a bit of what you are into when dealing with a medic :-) )

#41 xanadu

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:45 PM

After almost a week of using xylitol, it does seem like my teeth are cleaner at the end of the day. That could be subjective. Subjective is the twin sister of the placebo effect. We will see when I get my next cleaning. If they rave over how clean my teeth are, I know something worked. If I never get another cavity, that will prove it to me no matter how many studies come out later saying it does nothing. I first heard about xylitol over 15 years ago and they said the same things then. This is not a flash in the pan.

#42 xanadu

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 07:35 PM

After several weeks of using xylitol in my drinking water, I'm starting to notice that food tastes differently. I'm sure it's the xylitol. Today, I started back drinking plain water and my taste buds seem to be recovering. The wierd tastes seem to be fading out and things are starting to taste normal again. Ajnast, have you noticed anything like that? It may be because I was using xylitol all day long as opposed to just chewing the gum a few times a day. After food starts tasting normal again I will probably try the xylitol again but just perhaps one glass of treated water per day instead of all day long.

#43 staceyraemeyer

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 11:56 PM

anyone thought about seeing a dental hygenist?

#44 scottl

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:11 PM

Haven't yet read the whole thread, but this might interest...chewable table containing xylitol, co Q-10 (important for gum health)...

http://www.jarrow.co...t.php?prodid=87

#45 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 02:42 PM

anyone thought about seeing a dental hygenist?

My girlfriend is in school for dental hygeine (currently a dental assistant), her mother is a hygenist, and they both work in the same dentist office. No one in that office, including the dentist is familiar with the benefits of xylitol for dental health. And why should they be? The dentist would probably reduce his income dramatically if he recommended these products to all his patients. Don't count on anyone to keep you healthy if they profit from your illness.

#46 xanadu

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 07:30 PM

Haven't yet read the whole thread, but this might interest...chewable table containing xylitol, co Q-10 (important for gum health)...

http://www.jarrow.co...t.php?prodid=87


What I found to be interesting about that is first of all, it has 1gm of xylitol per tablet. That is not a small amount. I see they also have some dextrose in each tab which is ordinary sugar. I wonder why they would put any sugar at all in a tab meant for dental health? No doubt for flavor. This also reinforces what I suspected, that xylitol acts as a drug and it is not neccessary to keep it in the mouth at all times. They do have it in a chewable form so having it in contact with the teeth for a while likely does help.

I believe I was doing overkill by having it in my drinking water at all times. Even though I put only a tiny bit in the water it took away my ability to taste things, in particular sweet tastes. I was only taking about 1/4gm of xylitol per day. After a few days now of drinking plain water and no xylitol my taste buds are just about back to normal. I plan to keep a glass of water with a strong dose of xylitol in it, perhaps 1gm per glass and use that to swish around in my mouth after eating and then swallow. That will give me a few minutes exposure after each meal and snack while not keeping it in the mouth all day. Hopefully, this will give the benefits without the loss of normal taste perception that I suffered. So far, it seems like there might be a little more plaque at the end of the day than when I was using xylitol but it's too soon to make conclusions.

Dentists don't want everyone to have perfect teeth and no problems. Not that xylitol would do all that but if something did, the dentists would have to look for a new job. If a cure for all diseases were found, doctors would go broke. There would still be trauma cases but not much else.

#47 guyledouche

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 04:10 AM

So if I were to swish a little xylitol water around in my mouth as if it were listerine, would that be able to substitute brushing teeth a couple times a day?

I would still try and brush once or twice a day.

#48 mitkat

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 04:50 AM

So if I were to swish a little xylitol water around in my mouth as if it were listerine, would that be able to substitute brushing teeth a couple times a day? 

I would still try and brush once or twice a day.


I hear that exactly. I don't have my toothbrush if I'm at a jobsite or in a library (most likely places, heh), so I'd just be swishin' a little around to..."supplement" brushing once a day, hoping for some remineralization on the side.

#49 syr_

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 12:58 PM

They recommend to brush at least 2 times a day anyway. Morning and after work would do.

#50 fntms

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Posted 28 March 2006 - 12:23 PM

In Finland xylitol gums and candies are sold basically everywhere, there's about hundred different brands. I chew mostly salmiakki-xylitol gum and guarana-caffeine-taurine-xylitol gum.

Xylifresh is quite popular brand, one gum = 2,6 grams of xylitol. You can probably order it from here: http://www.finnishfo...products_id=486

According to dentists, 3-5 gums a day, chewed 5-10 minutes after meal, is enough.


That's a pretty good price, could you tell me if there's any aspartam in this stuff?
Thanks!

#51 syr_

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 02:45 PM

xylitol is a sweetener by itself so i doubt they add aspartame or any other sweetener to the gums.

#52 Pablo M

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 05:19 PM

There's a link on the Vitamin C Foundation's website that is broken, the title of which is "Vitamin C provides 100% protection against dental caries." I can't seem to find it through Google either.

Lately I've been chewing xylitol gum like a fiend and I definitely like it. I use my tongue to get it on the back and front of my teeth too so the bacteria there can't breed. Most people don't brush the back of their teeth and thus get lots of plaque buildup. I try to brush twice a day (my toothpaste has stevia and xylitol), floss and use mouthwash after meals. Folic acid and vitamin C keep my gums robustly healthy with no bleeding.

Other than that I would say that the strontium/dental health link is a lot more convincing than the fluoride/dental health link.

#53 rfarris

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:50 PM

Most people don't brush the back of their teeth ...

Really? How do you know?

#54 Pablo M

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 11:53 PM

Rick, there's something I've been wanting to ask you for some time... well, here it goes. Are you Santa Claus? You can tell me. I'll keep your secret.

#55 rfarris

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 12:27 AM

In other words you don't know? I presume that *you* don't brush the back of your teeth, though.

#56 trh001

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 01:43 AM

I'd been unaware of this...great thread.


----------
J Dent Res. 2006 Apr;85(4):369-73. Related Articles, Links


Streptococcus mutans: Fructose Transport, Xylitol Resistance, and Virulence.

Tanzer JM, Thompson A, Wen ZT, Burne RA.

University of Connecticut, School of Dental Medicine, Farmington, CT 06030-1605, USA; and.

Streptococcus mutans, the primary etiological agent of human dental caries, possesses at least two fructose phosphotransferase systems (PTSs), encoded by fruI and fruCD. fruI is also responsible for xylitol transport. We hypothesized that fructose and xylitol transport systems do not affect virulence. Thus, colonization and cariogenicity of fruI(-) and fruCD(-) single and double mutants, their WT (UA159), and xylitol resistance (X®) of S. mutans were studied in rats fed a high-sucrose diet. A sucrose phosphorylase (gtfA(-)) mutant and a reference strain (NCTC-10449S) were additional controls. Recoveries of fruI mutant from the teeth were decreased, unlike those for the other strains. The fruCD mutation was associated with a slight loss of cariogenicity on enamel, whereas mutation of fruI was associated with a loss of cariogenicity in dentin. These results also suggest why xylitol inhibition of caries is paradoxically associated with spontaneous emergence of so-called X® S. mutans in habitual human xylitol users.

PMID: 16567561 [PubMed - in process]


------------
Caries Res. 2006;40(1):43-6. Related Articles, Links

The effect of adding calcium lactate to xylitol chewing gum on remineralization of enamel lesions.

Suda R, Suzuki T, Takiguchi R, Egawa K, Sano T, Hasegawa K.

Department of Periodontology, Showa University Dental School, Tokyo, Japan. suda@senzoku.showa-u.ac.jp

The purpose of the study was to determine whether adding calcium lactate to chewing gum containing xylitol enhances remineralization of enamel surfaces using an early caries lesion model. Enamel slabs were cut from human extracted sound teeth and artificial subsurface lesions created within each. Half the enamel slabs were used as controls and stored in a humidifier while half were mounted into oral appliances worn by 10 volunteers (22-27 years old, 2 males and 8 females) in a three-leg trial, during which they wore the appliance without chewing gum, chewed gum containing xylitol + calcium lactate or chewed gum containing only xylitol 4 times a day for 2 weeks. Calcium concentrations in the enamel surfaces of control and test slabs were measured by X-ray spectrometry and degrees of remineralization were calculated. The mean degree of remineralization was greater after chewing xylitol-Ca gum (0.46 +/- 0.10) than after no gum (0.16 +/- 0.14) or after chewing xylitol gum (0.33 +/- 0.10) (p < 0.01). In conclusion, chewing gum containing xylitol + calcium lactate could enhance remineralization of enamel surface compared to chewing gum containing only xylitol or no gum chewing.

Publication Types:
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 16352880 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

#57 mitkat

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 02:15 AM

In other words you don't know?  I presume that *you* don't brush the back of your teeth, though.


It's well known that most people don't do everything they can for their health. Otherwise we'd already be well on our way to living forever.

Remember back in school, when you were taught how to brush your teeth by a visiting dentist or hygenist? Yeah, free toothbrush, plus they taught you how to brush. Some kids got it, some kids didn't. I would imagine some of those kids who didn't get it, still don't, and don't really care. Those people also still eat meat three times a day (McDonalds, anyone?), drink cola all day long, maybe eat some wal-mart brand supplements, drive an SUV "with whale skin hub caps and all leather cow interior", and most definitely do not brush the back of their teeth. Or floss, either.

And I never got my tricycle when I was 6, but I won't hold it against you. ;)

#58 zoolander

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 02:39 AM

Hey mitkat,

Where do you live? I wonder how much it would cost to ship my old school tricycle over to you?

I can see you now.......riding it around in the mud at an open air doof, infected mushroom doing a live set in the background....

sound good?

Oh yeah....dental health....has anyone mentioned green tea?

Delivery of tea polyphenols to the oral cavity by green tea leaves and black tea extract.

Lee MJ, Lambert JD, Prabhu S, Meng X, Lu H, Maliakal P, Ho CT, Yang CS.

Department of Chemical Biology, Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy, Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, Piscataway, New Jersey, USA.

Catechins and theaflavins, polyphenolic compounds derived from tea (Camellia sinensis, fam. Theaceae), have been reported to have a wide range of biological activities including prevention of tooth decay and oral cancer. The present study was undertaken to determine the usefulness of green tea leaves and black tea extract for the delivery of catechins and theaflavins to the oral cavity. After holding either green tea leaves (2 g) or brewed black tea (2 g of black tea leaves in 100 ml) in the mouth for 2-5 min and thoroughly rinsing the mouth, high concentrations of catechins (C(max) = 131.0-2.2 micro M) and theaflavins (C(max) = 1.8-0.6 micro M) were observed in saliva in the 1st hour. Whereas there was significant interindividual variation in the peak levels of catechins and theaflavins, the overall kinetic profile was similar, with t(1/2) = 25-44 min and 49-76 min for catechins and theaflavins, respectively (average coefficient of variation in t(1/2) was 23.4%). In addition to the parent catechin and theaflavin peaks, five unidentified peaks were also observed in saliva after black tea treatment. Hydrolysis of theaflavin gallates, apparently by salivary esterases, was observed in vitro and in vivo. These results indicate that tea leaves can be used as a convenient, slow-release source of catechins and theaflavins and provide information for the possible use of tea in the prevention of oral cancer and dental caries.

Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial


PMID: 14744744 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Holding of Tea and Sample Collection.

The protocol for human subjects in these studies was approved by the Institutional Review Board for the Protection of Human Subjects (Protocol no. 92-034) at Rutgers University (Piscataway, NJ). Volunteers between 25 and 50 years of age who did not smoke, drink alcohol, nor drink tea for at least two days before the start of this study were selected. After thoroughly brushing their teeth, four volunteers gently chewed 2 g of green tea leaves in the mouth for 5 min. The leaves were voided, and the subjects immediately rinsed their mouths vigorously 10 times with 50 ml water for a period of 2 min. Unstimulated saliva was collected in tubes containing 20 µl of ascorbic acid-EDTA solution [0.4 M NaH2PO4 buffer containing 20% ascorbic acid and 0.1% EDTA (pH 3.6)] before holding green tea leaves and at 2, 7, 12, 32, 62, 92, and 122 min after voiding the tea leaves and rinsing the mouth. A 500-µl aliquot of saliva was mixed with an equal volume of 60% acetonitrile and was stored at -80°C for later analysis. In a second study, volunteers held the green tea leaves in the mouth for 5 min without chewing. Samples were collected and analyzed as above.

Similar studies with black tea were conducted by having subjects hold 30 ml of black tea extract (2 g brewed in 100 ml hot water) in the mouth for 2 min. Subjects washed their mouths as above and saliva samples were collected in a similar manner.

Discussion.

In summary, this report demonstrates that holding green tea leaves or black tea extract in the mouth represents a method to achieve locally high levels of tea polyphenols. Black tea leaves proved to be too brittle and resulted in the deposition of plant material in the mouth, which confounded attempts at determining theaflavin and catechin levels in this study. Similarly, chewing green tea leaves resulted in significant variation in the data but higher levels of catechins than holding tea leaves. In practical application, however, chewing or holding green or black tea leaves probably results in the most effective delivery of these compounds to the oral cavity, and is the most convenient and economical sustained delivery system. Development of sustained release products such as chewing gum may aid in the esthetic acceptance and standardization of tea polyphenol delivery. The data presented here should prove useful in designing quality intervention trials to determine the effectiveness of tea as an oral cancer preventive and anticariogenic substance.


I have previously rinsed with brewed green tea but never thought of chewing the leaves. Maybe we can sell some green tea flavoured tobacco to the baseballers. [tung]

#59 mitkat

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 03:00 AM

;) although I do still like psytrance (I.M. always comes to mind), I don't get down in it that much anymore, not since I was a teenager. I'm more civilized now :)

and green tea has been mentioned in previous threads, not sure 'bout this one.

#60 zoolander

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 03:25 AM

More civilized? I'm offended by that comment [tung]




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