47 replies to this topic

[hallucinogen]

I am relatively new to cutting, even though I am extremely proficient at it , naturally.
Can I hear some of your personal advice on how to get that Shredded RIPPED Look, quick? Using supps is fine. Does Sesamine work?, etc.
What changes should i make to my Bulking diet? carbs/protein/fats - wise

Edited by hallucinogen, 15 February 2006 - 05:24 AM.

[Shepard]

I like carb cycling diets...either Lyle's UD2 (I don't like it, but it's effective) or something like Faigin's NHE, Twin Peak's CKD diet at Avant. In my experience, Lyle's is the best, although it is pretty brutal for the first couple of weeks.

I have never noticed any body composition changes from sesamin. I would suggest get some free-form BCAAs and creatine if you don't use them already to help maintain muscle....maybe some glutamine (controversial....lots of folks don't think it works, I know Scivation pushes it while cutting).

Unless you're willing to use ephedrine + caffeine, I don't think there are going to be too many supplements that will really help you, unless you are interested in the more powerful drugs. Although, using Avant Lab's H.E.A.T. with Ergopharm's Amp is getting some good reviews. I've tried it, and can say that it does give great energy, but I don't use it regularly for fat loss.

As far as exercise, not really much, other than adding in HIIT if you aren't doing it already.

What is your current weight and body fat?

[Shepard]

Just read your other post....you're not hoping to cut while putting on lean muscle, are you?

Although, it is possible if you are completely untrained, or want to use the more hardcore "supplements".

[hallucinogen]

Almost forgot, Should I completely exclude supplementation with creatine ethyl ester while cutting? Or reduce it to maybe 2g a day, since I don't eat any meat, thus wont get it otherwise from any other source. Because I doubt I'll ever get the definition with it?

Yes, HIIT program will be a must while cutting. Could you elaborate on Sesamin?

No, I don't really hope to build a lot of lean muscle while cutting:p That would be miraculous even though far from impossible.

And, if you could be more specific, or give examples of your own cutting cycle, it would be great.

[Shepard]

I like creatine as a staple. It will help retain some muscle while cutting.

On sesamin, I can't tell you anything more than what I experienced. I still take 500mg daily, more for the possible health benefits than extra fat loss. Quite a few people swear by it, I personally don't think it is all that great for cutting. Maybe for minimizing fat gain while bulking. I'd rather up my fish oil intake.

It seems that some genetic elite are able to build muscle while in an overall weekly caloric deficit. Some people claim the UD2 enables them to do it, some people say they can do it while taking loads of OTC supplements, some go the easy way and get steroids.

My own cutting cycle usually goes something like this:

10xBW for average daily calories (I have shitty genetics)
Carb cycle with High/Low/No carb days
Protein is usually 1g/lb.
Carb intake is usually 1.5g/lb on high, .75g/lb on low, .15g/lb on no
Fat intake makes up the rest of the calories

I do weight-lifting 4x per week in an upper/lower split. HIIT twice per week...and two hours of low-medium intensity cardio per week.

[hallucinogen]

Well, I'm genetically elite and I love it :D
Just finished creating the most ultimate work-out (exercises) I've ever seen after gathering and putting everything together. Will definately take everything in account and see what kind of results I will be able to accomplish:D

Looking forward to more diet suggestions though (:

Edited by hallucinogen, 15 February 2006 - 10:38 AM.

[variance]

I'd like to say dancing.. ie. modern hip-hop choreographed /breaking/bboying
is a pretty good way to cut. It also has improved my overall coordination and
balance by a ridiculous amount. (Think you got served type stuff)

Modern dance class is pretty crazy
The warm-up workout/exercise before you dance is sick as hell focusing
on core exercises and crazy stretches. You'll get limber and flexible as well.
It's a quick way to a six pack as well.
Dance 2 times a week + Full-Contact MMA + StimX/HEAT has dropped me from like 149 to 137.
It's insane how much you sweat during cardio with those supps

The balance/coordination/flexibility can carry over into working out and martial arts as well.

also its good for the chicks

[johnmk]

Shepard,

I've read conflicting information on whether creatine helps or hinders on a cut. The preponderance of evidence indicates to me that it's not likely to help. That said, it appears to have very minor nootropic properties so I would continue dosing it regardless of what my other goals might be. I doubt its contribution, positive or negative, will be substantial anyway during his cut.

Aside -- I wish we had more evidence on the efficacy of CEE. Anyone know of any studies or does anyone have a thorough understanding of what's going on and why it must be efficacious by definition? At the moment, I supplement about equal amounts of creatine monohydrate and creatine ethyl esther, just to be on the safe side.

[Shepard]

Creatine will help keep the cell hydrated, which means a hose of things that you want while cutting. Creatine monohydrate is so dirt cheap, I don't see a reason to not take it...unless you experience bloat and are looking to be completely shredded for a beach trip or something.

variance, doesn't that type of dancing a lot like an intense aerobic session? How long does it last? I probably wouldn't recommend that to someone who has built an appreciable amount of muscle and is looking to keep as much as possible while on a cut.

[alexoverhere]

i don't know about modern dance, but breaking involves lots of power moves (depending on the style) and is like a wrestling match in terms of duration and intensity.

variance: what's MMA like? I was thinking about doing brazilian jiu-jitsu / mma at my university, but I don't have much martial arts background (only a bit of karate and some hs wrestling)

[guyledouche]

A lot of bodybuilders say that nothing comes close to the EC stack(ephedrine + caffeine) during the cutting phase. You should give it a shot, its supposed to kill your appetite and give you insane amounts of energy so it sounds good for cutting, just use it safely.

[syr_]

If you are asking how to preserve muscles, nothing comes close to AAS A moderate dose of anavar is also very safe.

If you just want to cut trying to minimize muscle loss, hm there are quite a few things (more or less chemical) that works: ECY (ephedrine + caffeine and yohimbine, all three oral), TTA (fatty acids) and Clen/Albuterol.

[hallucinogen]

What the heck is AAS:P
I would stay away from ephedrine, and too much caffeine unless you are on Ketogenic diet.

(Ephedrine side-effects:
nervousness
dizziness
tremor
alternations in blood pressure or heart rate
headache
gastrointestinal distress
chest pain
myocardial infarction
hepatitis
stroke
seizures
pyschosis
death

( http://www.ephedrine-news.com )

I would stay away from Yohimbine because it is a potent inhibitor of GH secretion.
I've heard some weird things about it What concerns me the most that its also a temprorary MAO Inhibitor:p (and not many people realise it)

( http://www.personalh...om/yohimbe.html )
( http://www.drugdiges...75,4048,00.html ) , etc.

[Shepard]

I definately would not combine ephedrine and yohimbine. TTA is a lot like Sesathin, IMO, in regards to the real-world effects.

[syr_]

TTA are much more powerful then sesamin extracts. There are two products with it on the market and a research powder available.

From people who used those, they liked more ECY then ECA. Reduce GH secretion does not equal muscle catabolism, but can hinder ganis... but he is cutting

AAS= steroids.

[Shepard]

Some people can tolerate ECY, most can't. I wouldn't recommend people to use it even if they could tolerate it. Both ephedrine and yohimbine basically do the same thing, although through different pathways (from a fat loss standpoint, each has their own unique properties). The rise in blood pressure from ephedrine alone is bad enough, with yohimbine in the mix, it doesn't get better.

I've used both TTA and sesamin. Both have decent literature backing them (although, yeah....rat studies mostly on the sesamin), but neither panned out as far as fat loss in the real world. You find some people who swear by them for fat loss, just like you find people who swear by Cell-Tech.....and only Cell-Tech.

Edited by shepard, 26 February 2006 - 08:13 PM.

[the big b]

TTA = Tetradecylthioacetic acid

**Products containing TTA:
Red Acid by Controlled Labs
Venom - Special Tactics by ALRI
LipidFX by SciVation

*Info on TTA:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....5&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm....5&dopt=Abstract

http://atvb.ahajourn...ract/17/11/3255
http://atvb.ahajourn...tract/25/7/1364

[hyoomen]

A couple of articles I've found useful in finishing up my first cut (from 205 to 140...probably a bit too far but still some loose skin and fat):
http://www.bodybuild...m/fun/casi2.htm
http://www.bulknutri...m/?articleID=30 <--- DEFINITELY READ

My roommate has had a ton of luck w/ Sesamin. I like to cycle Yohimbe in every once and a while. EC is the way to go, though (without Yohimbe, of course). Keep BCAA's around at all time. Constantly prime your system w/ small snacks before meals (handful of almonds 15 mins before meal) to stabilize blood sugar. Hit the Glucophase XR and/or ALA heavily w/ ALCAR to keep that cellular metabolism firing with all cylinders.

Other than that, just be certain you keep detailed food journals so you can track what is and is not effective.

The forums at johnstonefitness.com and T-nation.com might also have beneficial discussions on the subject. If you want to go really crazy at the end of the cut, check out Swolecat's 7 Days to Ultimate Leanness article on the JSF forums for a pre-contest cut formula he recommends.

Good luck and stay safe!

[the_eternal]

Where can I get a complete copy of Lyle's UD2 diet?

[Shepard]

http://store.lylemcd...es/ud2info.html

[syr_]

My roommate has had a ton of luck w/ Sesamin.

Sesamin didnt work for me.
TTA gave me bad cramps, but I still recommend it because its effective and most people dont get awful sides like me.

[daimewaku]

I maintain a relativly normal BP while taking 25mg of ephedrine. I thought I'd be smeeert and add Yohimbe to my stack and work out. BAD CHOICE! My heart was beating so hard that I could feel and see my whole body move each time my heart beat. I left the gym and went home and took an inderal, and NEVER AGAIN took those two together. I never enjoyed the feeling of Yohimbe alone anyway coz it made my eyes dry and atmomic red.

[oversoul711]

If you are still interested I would check out "Chemical Anarchy" - do a search for this in Google. I know who's site this is but I do not want to, nor do I think he would like his name being "tossed" around internet forums. When you get to the site you're going to have to register and wait for admin to approve. After that search for "Anarchy Stack" and "Animbolics Diet". If you can't get "shredded" with the aformentioned stack and diet then you've got problems [wis] . I hope this can be of some help to you. Good luck.

[Shepard]

I'm not sure what the "Animbolic Diet" is, I've heard of various diets tossed around as the "Anabolic Diet" which is pretty stupid. Anyway, the Anarchy Stack really isn't anything special, IMO.

[scottl]

Go to Lyle McDonald's site and read. Pick one of his diets UD2 being a good (but extreme) one.

NB: he provides a good no nonsense viewpoint.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/
then read the forum

[regino007]

Anavar is the safest "gear" ppl could use(in moderation,of course). When it comes to bb items, most would go on a var/win cycle for 4-6weeks(with other preparations). Neither one of these compunds actually help in fat burning. There also alot of risks that newbies find out later in life without doing proper research on the good,bad, and the ugly if you choose to use AAS.(anabolic/androgenic steroids)
The ECA stack is somewhat effective if you can tollerate the way it will make you feel. I noticed the mention if clen. Clen is a very powerful cutting agent used by many bb'ers prior to stepping on stage.Some use a 2week alternating cycle of ECA then switch to Clen. Clen MUST be used in a rampping up a little each day to find where the level of tolerance is best. Also the body adapts to clen fast.
I personnaly suggest you look more at your diet and cardio. Eating smaller meals and more of them during the day will keep your metabalism going. Good luck and keep us updated on what you do.


BTW, I hate using any creatine while cutting. It still allows the muscle bellies to hold water. If you want that "model" six-pack, I suggest you hold off creatine while cutting.

[Shepard]

Anthony?

[paleo]

I have had good success with low carbing and moderate protein and fat intake. Apparently BCAA (in appreciable amounts -- 30-40g's) help alot in maintaining lean muscle but I have no personal experience with them.

With respect to AAS (anavar and winny), apparently deca works extremely well and is one of the safest (if done properly).

[regino007]

With respect to AAS (anavar and winny), apparently deca works extremely well and is one of the safest (if done properly).

Deca is something used in bulking cycles. It really get the bloat going in those looking for that "swole" look.


Bulking cycles generally consists of some sort of test,and either a stack of compounds such as deca and dbol.

[regino007]

Anthony?

?? [huh] ??