15 replies to this topic

[sentinel]

Greetings from the windswept island that is England

I am a typical noob who stumbled upon the forums whilst seeking real world/anecdotal information on nootropics from people like (albeit better informed than) me.

I have made some good progress addressing my issues which have been/are:
Poor concentration, not good at multi-tasking and easily distracted
Poor short term memory - still can't remember my number(licence) plate.
General lack of mental clarity.
Indecisive -> procrastination.
Superficially confident but relatively low fundamental self belief.

I run a search and selection firm (recruitment) so the above create problems as remembering names, complex requirements, mentally matching the two and spinning multiple plates are essential.

Conversely I seem to have the ability to retain random aspects of people's/company's backgrounds for years and, with the aid of a database, text searching and contact diary system, manage to work around most issues.

My regime/Diet:

Diet - Good, balanced
Exercise: Aerobic/Anaerobic twice a week + daily cycling
Caffeine - 3 cups a day of coffee

Supplements - Multivit, extra C and (high quality) Fish Oil.

Noops spread over 2 doses a day with meals:
Piracetam - 4000mg -
Vinpocetine - 20 mg
DMAE - 700mg (controversial it seems)
Huperzine A 200mcg
Pyritinol - 800mg

Result -
More mental intensity at work and gym, greater ability to repeat high volume/low intensity tasks (eg reading 100 CVs quickly but concentrating throughout)
More Nike ie "just do it" rather than "it probably wont work because..."
Occasionally a bit wired (may need to tweak caffeine intake)

QUESTION 1
I take my noops monday to friday with the weekend off as a "mini-cycle" is this a good idea or should I be 24x7 and take a month off from time to time?


One area I haven't made any particular improvements is on the motivation/self belief side. To this end, based largely on the positive reports from Da Sense and LifeMirage I purchased some Deprenyl (juprenil brand from UN) and have experimented at:
5 mg per day for 2 weeks ( generally felt foggy and a bit out of it, interesting but not great for work)
2.5 mg per day for 2 weeks (Less foggy, more happy - more motivated to smile than work)

The pills are 5 mg each so quite hard to split to small divisions accurately.

QUESTION 2
Should I drop my Dep intake to c 1 mg per day, every other day or
Drop it completely
Change something in my overall stack to compensate.

Sorry to drag on but I thought it best to give a complete picture rather than people having to ask loads of questions or make assumptions.

Any advice or thoughts appreciated and may I just say that the amount of information, motivation and camaraderie on this forum is excellent.

PS Sorry this is pretty much a re-post but as I received no responses I assumed that attention was largely focussed on the "excitement" regarding key members/leaders which I have nothing further to add to or it may have been due to my previous, unforgivable mis-spelling of the word "dilemma" for which I apologise profuesly.

Sentinel

Edited by sentinel, 02 March 2006 - 12:26 PM.

[sentinel]

Am I facing the right way?

[mitkat]

Sentinel, how old are you? There is reason to believe a young person does not need deprenyl, and doses of 5mg every day are fairly heavy. If you really want a low, superior dose, the liquid form would be king. Also, have you thought of A-GPC or CDP choline to go with that large an amount of piracetam? I just finally started taking A-GPC after only using centro as my choline source for months, and it's worth it.

I like the idea of mini-cycling also, I stop taking noots for a day or two on the weekends every once in a while, especially if you're taking Huperzine A.

[sentinel]

Hi Mitkat

Thanks for the response. I'm 36 so not exactly young or old, but my main interest in Dep was for the motivational boost it seems to give some (if not all) people which seems to have to be above the 1-2.5mg "life extension" level. Having said that, in concurrence with what you say, 5mg was fogging me out a bit and I have endeavoured to cut down to c2.5 mg every other day (ie splitting a 5mg pill). which doesn't cause any blurr but I'm not sure if I'm getting any positive effects either. What was your opinion of the liquid dep?

Re Choline I take DMAE which I realise some people dismiss but I believe that it should facilitate the increased choline needs cause by Piracetam but have considered moving to something more globally recommended like CDP choline. Seems there is a lot of mixed feelings about DMAE out there...

Mini-cycling seems to make reasonable sense, no doubt my partner would be astonished by my secret double life; Smart and high-output at work during the week/stupid and bad at DIY at the weekend

Why Hup A in particular: tolerance? Toxicity?


Sentinel

[meatwad]

They just approved the selegiline patch for depression, so I would not worry about causing too much damage.

I am still trying to work out how much deprenyl works for me. It seems less is definately more, when I take a 5mg I am motivated but my memory is shot. I make sub sandwiches and on the "high" days of deprenyl I am aware that I need to ask the customers what type of bread or what they didn't want on their sandwich.

Either way I am focused on single tasks. multi tasking is the worst thing for accomplishing goals IMO.

[mitkat]

Hi Mitkat

Thanks for the response. I'm 36 so not exactly young or old, but my main interest in Dep was for the motivational boost it seems to give some (if not all) people which seems to have to be above the 1-2.5mg "life extension" level.  Having said that, in concurrence with what you say, 5mg was fogging me out a bit and I have endeavoured to cut down to c2.5 mg every other day (ie splitting a 5mg pill). which doesn't cause any blurr but I'm not sure if I'm getting any positive effects either. What was your opinion of the liquid dep?

Re Choline I take DMAE which I realise some people dismiss but I believe that it should facilitate the increased choline needs cause by Piracetam but have considered moving to something more globally recommended like CDP choline. Seems there is a lot of mixed feelings about DMAE out there...

I have not tried liquid deprenyl, but pretty much everyone seems to think it's citrate form is superior (easier to dose, better absorption). DMAE I can't comment on either, I have read some good things about it, but GPC or CDP might be worth it to try.

Mini-cycling seems to make reasonable sense, no doubt my partner would be astonished by my secret double life; Smart and high-output at work during the week/stupid and bad at DIY at the weekend 

[lol] I can relate..

Why Hup A in particular: tolerance? Toxicity?

There has been a buzz recently about the effects of taking Huperzine A everyday, even in small doses. I can think of one memeber who doesn't take orthomind just because of this, and I've read some info, and come to an early (not final) conclusion that it could be unwise to supplement everyday with it.

[FunkOdyssey]

It occurs to me that LifeMirage's exceptionally pro-huperzine stance (that we thought was backed up by clinical experience) might possibly fall into the "bad advice" category. I'm not an expert but I've always been a little wary about long-term daily acetylcholinesterase inhibition as a 25 y/o.

[mitkat]

That's who I was thinking of that is totally pro-hup, funk...and it always bothered me. It seemed a little too powerful (mad respect to the club moss!! [thumb]), and not something to be played around with.

But what can you say to LM? He's done thousands of patient studies....

[sentinel]

Getting back to Meatwad (intriguing!), I guess the dilemma I have with Dep/Sel/Jup etc is if you have to back off on the dose to a point where it is not causing bad memory/blur/fog eg 1-2.5mg is it actually doing any "good" ie motivation, mood elevation etc. The only reason I am persisting with it is the classic scenario of retrospective enlightenment ie you only notice the positive effects when they are gone. If anyone has persisted for a solid stint eg 1-2 months and found when they dropped it that it had no noticeable benefit I would also be very interested.

Sentinel

[mitkat]

da_sense has used deprenyl for very long stints, and has had great results, but he doesn't seem to post that often anymore?...

[sentinel]

Hey Da Sense, you're one of the main reasons I'm giving Dep a throw so good to see you chipping in. I remember reading you jacked it up to 10mg a day for a while (winter) did you find that detrimental long term or is there just a bit more sunshine in your life now

..And did you build up to 5mg/10mg pday or just deep end it?

Sentinel

[sentinel]

Thanks Da Sense, glad everything is looking Rosey. Interesting that you dropped everything else, a noop- monogamist is pretty rare, most people can't seem to stop themselves tinkering and adding. I always marvel at the sheer range of stuff people take! but then I am something of a novice

I suspect 10mg would be way too much for me so I'll carry on with 2.5 every other day and build up slowly and see how I get on. Caffeine is a whole other subject.. I used to take "Charge" (Ephedra, Guarana etc) pre-workout but then I trained at 7:00am so not sleeping was not an issue. But that, as they say, is another thread altogether.....


Sentinel

[sentinel]

(Ironically just had a cup of coffee and trained at 7:00am today )

I'm not going to steamroll to 10 mg irrespective of my reaction/effects, I may even stop at 2.5 if I find 5mg has negative effects (eg sitting there in a pleasant but really quite pointless blur, I'll save that for friday night [thumb] ). After I get through the Dep I have I will a cooling off period for 2-4week and assess whether I feel any better/worse/same and take it from there.

I wouldn't say I'm depressive, although I have my share of dark moments, and you are right to distinguish between lacking motivation and depression, it is more the former that I'm looking to boost. I have read about hydergine but not tried it as yet but it looks interesting..(he said as he walked towards the slippery slope..).

Sentinel