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Chronic insomnia and impaired memory.

insomnia periodic limb movement disorder memory loss trazadone childhood stroke pregablin cva restless legs sleep disorder

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#1 Droplet

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:14 PM


Here's the issue I've been having: a few years ago, I developed chronic insomnia. Was never a good sleeper but a stressful period made it a real problem. Desperation drove me to pay to see a private neurologist and I was given an MRI scan and told that there was nothing sinister there. I was initially given melatonin, which didn't really work on me and I was then prescribed Trazadone. The latter got me through and whilst I slept, I was suffering in other ways including being very impaired at work, especially as regards my memory.

 

This ended up with me having a sleep study and being diagnosed with periodic limb movement disorder and being prescribed Pregablin. Pregablin is great in that when I do sleep, I am having restful sleep. However, I am still having difficulties consistently achieving the sleeping thing. I have tried things like hops, lavender, valerian, camomile and all of the over the counter medication. I am sometimes prescribed Zopiclone to help me sleep when I am really ill but I know that it is addictive and you can become immune to it.

 

May also be useful to know that I had a stroke as a child and that I am currently awaiting results of a homocysteine test to see whether my levels are elevated. I have heard that this can contribute to fatigue and sleep issues. I exercise regularly and I can recite the sleep hygiene advice given by GPs by heart. I am teetotal because alcohol doesn't mix well with Pregablin (I was only a moderate drinker anyway) and I have never abused illegal substances. I have used caffeine more than I should on bad days when I needed to function and wanted to avoid sick days but I try to keep my caffeine low.

 

My main issue is my sleep and persistent fatigue but I would also love my old memory back. It is mostly my short term memory that has suffered since Trazadone but I notice that I don't learn as quickly or as easily since I was on it. I have been off it for well over a year now and I weaned myself off it under medical supervision because it was impairing my memory and ability to carry out my job. I sometimes still had relapses with my insomnia so it wasn't always a success at making me sleep. My memory has improved slightly but I can still see just how much of a mess it now is.

 

I am based in UK and would like advice on things that may help me and that I can actually get hold of. I am not going to come off anything that I am currently prescribed, as it is helping. I am on the following under medical advice: Atorvostatin (for cholesterol), Ferrous Sulphate (restless legs) and Pregablin (anxiety and periodic limb movement disorder).

 

Any advice would be gratefully received - Thank you in advance. :)



#2 Mind

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:51 PM

The "sleep study". Did that check for sleep apnea?


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#3 tunt01

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 07:06 PM

Given that these symptoms were brought on by stress, I would guess the symptoms (sleep dysregulation, memory) are akin to some kind of PTSD.  I would suggest looking at prazosin for a night time sleep aid.  It is an alpha-1 receptor blocker that mitigates the effects of noradrenaline/adrenaline on brain and has been used in situations of PTSD/sleep maintenance insomnia.  Alternatively, a drug like guanfacine an alpha-2a agonist can be useful in improving working memory/anxiety and helpful for maintaining sleep.

 

Both drugs strengthen the PFC and should improve memory/prevent sleep disruption.  They come at the issue from two different ways.  I would try prazosin first for sleep symptoms.  Guanfacine has both short acting and extended release forms.  I'm not as certain as their effect profile, but there is information on the forum here about it.

 

Please consult with any doctor about interactions with existing medications.  They make suggest you get off pregabalin.

 

General cognitive help with uridine, magnesium and/or liposomal curcumin/d3 might be advised.


Edited by prophets, 03 July 2017 - 07:19 PM.


#4 YOLF

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 07:21 PM

Well, there are several things you can do to improve your sleep which I'll get to. 

 

Melatonin - ok, so it didn't work, but the problem I experience with it most often has to do with inconsistent rates of absorption when swallowed. Does Rx Melatonin come in sublingual form? Preferably sublingual tablets? The drops in my experience have had inconsistent efficacy, but the tablets have never failed. Just put one beneath the tongue when you get into bed and you'll be out like a light. If it works, you don't want to use it every day. One dose should keep you falling asleep on time for at least 2-3 days. Make sure you lie down. Otherwise it won't start to work. The same probably goes for any Rx they give you that increases your melatonin production.

 

Glycine - improves your own melatonin production, is inexpensive, and easy to self titrate in increments of about 500mg with a very high dosage ceiling. 

 

HMB - improves your own melatonin production and encourages healthy muscles, also comes with cosmetic benefits. Weight loss benefits may also improve airway constriction.

 

*Both Glycine and HMB can make you a bit sluggish in the morning and for the purpose of sleep may need to have dosing reduced to appropriate levels. This will require some experimenting.

 

Too much iron can make you drowsy, you should be sure to get some testing done to make sure you're not overdosing. Or try taking .5-1g of garlic daily (will remove some iron) and see if that helps on your more drowsy days. 

 

Light Therapy - Bluish light in the AM, and orange to reddish closer to the time you want to sleep. Also, cover the blue LEDs on any charging devices and charge your phone in a drawer.

 

Oatmeal or Sorghum - Either of these will provide all day energy as a source of breakfast nutrition. Any time you do something to put yourself to sleep, you may have to do something to wake up. Perhaps some light calisthenics in the morning would also be advantageous.

 

Gouda Cheese - generally good for the airway to improve breathing during sleep if that's part of the problem and will give you an attractive deep voice (my experience... you probably won't find any papers to back that up).

 

As for memory..

 

Agmatine might work if the drop in memory is related to damage or shrinkage of the hippocampus.

 

Bovine Bone Marrow - this may encourage the health of the stem cells which would help repair any damage along with the agmatine.

 

Horny Goat Weed - More potent extracts are best, also good for stem cell proliferation rather than differentiation and could improve long term recovery outlook. 

 

Pomegranate Extract - Good for cardiovascular elasticity, may do something to prevent future strokes and has benefits which may be somewhat similar to Horny Goat Weed, but through different mechanisms.



#5 Droplet

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 08:42 PM

The "sleep study". Did that check for sleep apnea?

Checked for that and it isn't a problem. There's a family history of it but I escaped that one. :)

 

Given that these symptoms were brought on by stress, I would guess the symptoms (sleep dysregulation, memory) are akin to some kind of PTSD.  I would suggest looking at prazosin for a night time sleep aid.  It is an alpha-1 receptor blocker that mitigates the effects of noradrenaline/adrenaline on brain and has been used in situations of PTSD/sleep maintenance insomnia.  Alternatively, a drug like guanfacine an alpha-2a agonist can be useful in improving working memory/anxiety and helpful for maintaining sleep.

I wasn't ever diagnosed with PTSD...I had a stressful time with higher education and it just seemed to trigger everything and ruin my sleeping forever more.

 

Well, there are several things you can do to improve your sleep which I'll get to. 

 

Melatonin - ok, so it didn't work, but the problem I experience with it most often has to do with inconsistent rates of absorption when swallowed. Does Rx Melatonin come in sublingual form? Preferably sublingual tablets? The drops in my experience have had inconsistent efficacy, but the tablets have never failed. Just put one beneath the tongue when you get into bed and you'll be out like a light. If it works, you don't want to use it every day. One dose should keep you falling asleep on time for at least 2-3 days. Make sure you lie down. Otherwise it won't start to work. The same probably goes for any Rx they give you that increases your melatonin production.

 

Glycine - improves your own melatonin production, is inexpensive, and easy to self titrate in increments of about 500mg with a very high dosage ceiling. 

 

HMB - improves your own melatonin production and encourages healthy muscles, also comes with cosmetic benefits. Weight loss benefits may also improve airway constriction.

 

*Both Glycine and HMB can make you a bit sluggish in the morning and for the purpose of sleep may need to have dosing reduced to appropriate levels. This will require some experimenting.

 

Too much iron can make you drowsy, you should be sure to get some testing done to make sure you're not overdosing. Or try taking .5-1g of garlic daily (will remove some iron) and see if that helps on your more drowsy days. 

 

Light Therapy - Bluish light in the AM, and orange to reddish closer to the time you want to sleep. Also, cover the blue LEDs on any charging devices and charge your phone in a drawer.

 

Oatmeal or Sorghum - Either of these will provide all day energy as a source of breakfast nutrition. Any time you do something to put yourself to sleep, you may have to do something to wake up. Perhaps some light calisthenics in the morning would also be advantageous.

 

Gouda Cheese - generally good for the airway to improve breathing during sleep if that's part of the problem and will give you an attractive deep voice (my experience... you probably won't find any papers to back that up).

 

As for memory..

 

Agmatine might work if the drop in memory is related to damage or shrinkage of the hippocampus.

 

Bovine Bone Marrow - this may encourage the health of the stem cells which would help repair any damage along with the agmatine.

 

Horny Goat Weed - More potent extracts are best, also good for stem cell proliferation rather than differentiation and could improve long term recovery outlook. 

 

Pomegranate Extract - Good for cardiovascular elasticity, may do something to prevent future strokes and has benefits which may be somewhat similar to Horny Goat Weed, but through different mechanisms.

My melatonin was in pill form but it still didn't work for me, hence the Trazadone. Are these substances for sale in regular shops and is bovine bone marrow available in a pill or are you suggesting that I cook it? What does self titrate mean in terms of glycine, or anything for that matter? No one knows exactly what the memory loss looks like or what it is other than it came from Trazadone us for a year...though I doubt that the insomnia helped either. I am already conscious of blue light and I ban all devices an hour before bedtime. My iron is tested and is okay with the supplements.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help so far. :)



#6 YOLF

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:31 PM

Sublingual - for use under the tongue, also what was the dose of the melatonin?

 

Melatonin is available over the counter at most grocers in the US, but is a scheduled substance in the UK iirc. Bovine bone marrow comes in a pill and is usually listed along with glandular substances. Self titrate means take as needed, try 500mg day one and add 500mg each day thereafter and at different times during the day to get the timing just right for your metabolism, then keep trying to get off of it or at least reduce the dose should eventually get you to the right melatonin level. You may need to take more periodically.



#7 Droplet

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 07:07 AM

Thank you for that. :) What is good specifically for fighting day time fatigue?

#8 tunt01

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:00 AM

Thank you for that. :) What is good specifically for fighting day time fatigue?

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#9 Droplet

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 09:51 AM

 

Thank you for that. :) What is good specifically for fighting day time fatigue?

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Thank you. :) I am wondering if when I finally do get sufficient rest regularly, the fatigue and memory will resolve somewhat.



#10 Droplet

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:16 AM

Sublingual - for use under the tongue, also what was the dose of the melatonin?

 

Melatonin is available over the counter at most grocers in the US, but is a scheduled substance in the UK iirc. Bovine bone marrow comes in a pill and is usually listed along with glandular substances. Self titrate means take as needed, try 500mg day one and add 500mg each day thereafter and at different times during the day to get the timing just right for your metabolism, then keep trying to get off of it or at least reduce the dose should eventually get you to the right melatonin level. You may need to take more periodically.

 

I can't remember the dose I had other than the stuff came in a bottle and the doctor told me to take no more than two and that ten would put me out but it is neither recommended nor appropriate...if that helps. It has been a couple of years now. I am asking questions here because my condition is stopping me from doing things, has got beyond a  joke and usual medical practioners have helped partially but have yet to sort out everything. I'm fed up of having to be really careful in case I have a relapse of insomnia and having to plan life around it and miss work. Basically, I've turned to Longecity and supplements as a potential last resort.
 



#11 YOLF

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 05:48 PM

Thank you for that. :) What is good specifically for fighting day time fatigue?

Well, the oatmeal and sorghum are long lasting energy, then there's caffeine... B1 (thiamine HCl only) is good for energy in excess and good for liver function should that have been damaged... even moderate drinking can do some harm under the right circumstances, esp. when meds are involved.



#12 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 05:43 AM


Droplet, you wrote: “Here's the issue I've been having: a few years ago, I developed chronic insomnia. Was never a good sleeper but a stressful period made it a real problem.”

And then, later, in a response to a post by “prophets” you state:  “I had a stressful time with higher education and it just seemed to trigger everything and ruin my sleeping forever more.”

From this I take it that from the time of your early recollection you were “never a good sleeper”. Your sleep problem (described as not good) was exacerbated during a stressful time associated with higher education. It’s not clear to me if your exacerbated sleep problem associated with your higher-education experience subsequently, after some period of time, degenerated into “chronic insomnia” which manifested itself a few years ago, or if the “chronic insomnia” is the same thing as the higher-education-associated “real problem” you mention.

You mention history of a stroke as a child. Did your awareness of being “never a good sleeper” predate or postdate your stroke?  Was the area of the stroke adequately identified? Might there be a logical nexus between the area of your brain affected by your stroke and the brain areas associated with the manifested problems you currently describe? Have you had any medical procedures, prior to the worsening of your sleep/memory/fatigue problems, that might have resulted in cerebral microemboli?  Do you currently work in an environment that might subject you to pathogens or chemicals, etc., to a greater extent than typically might be present for an office worker, say, for example? Is there a familial history of symptoms such as you describe? (Note that all of my questions here and elsewhere should be considered to be rhetorical because I don’t want to be branded as a quidnunc ;) ).

Is your O2 level within a normal range–this parameter should have been measured during your sleep study. If you don’t already own one, a pulse oximeter to measure your O2 is a  relatively cheap device and it’s also good for looking at the wave forms displayed on the device which might serendipitously display some  ectopic beats as, or if, they occur. Increasing numbers of Ectopic beats  can be an indicator of low electrolytes or may indicate the possibility of  afib (atrial fibrillation) on the horizon. The electrolytes  sodium (Na+), potassium (K+), calcium (Ca2+), magnesium (Mg2+), chloride (Cl−), hydrogen phosphate (HPO42−), and hydrogen carbonate (HCO3−) are important.  Ectopic beats may also occur as a result of magnesium deficiency as well as thyroid problems, etc..

I assume you have investigated the side effects of Pregablin for you anxiety and periodic limb movement as they might pertain to your symptoms. And also Zopiclone.

Concerning Atorvostatin --what dosage and when was it started and is it currently at the starting dosage or has the dosage increased or decreased? What were your  pre-statin cholesterol levels, and what are they now? Some of your symptoms might be an indication of demyelination of cells in critical brain structures. The brain contains about 20% of the body’s cholesterol stores, and statins suppress cholesterol production (simplified description).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4383754/

The majority (about 70%–80%) of cholesterol in the adult brain is in myelin sheaths formed by oligodendrocytes to insulate axons, the rest is made up by plasma membranes of astrocytes and neurons to maintain their morphology and synaptic transmission (Dietschy and Turley, 2004).

Was the diagnosis of periodic limb movement as well as restless legs made before, during, or after your treatment with the statin drug? Does your diet, and any supplements that you may be taking, supply you with adequate amounts of magnesium and potassium?


You wrote: “It is mostly my short term memory that has suffered since Trazadone...” A clarification/elucidation needs to be made as to what you mean by “suffered” in relation to what may be a “short-term memory” problem--have you had a professional diagnosis of a short-term memory problem?. What are the manifestations of your memory problems? It’s good to be aware of the logical fallacies of “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” (after this, therefore because of this) and “cum hoc, ergo propter hoc” (with this, therefore because of this). Not to say that particular correlations and temporal coincidence don’t play into things, but one should be aware of trying to ascribe too much emphasis to what may appear to be, at first blush, an obvious explanation. Trazadone may, or may not, have some role in your symptoms. But, certainly it’s in the “possible contributions” column. Sometimes we tend to fixate on “sure things” in lieu of “thinking outside the box”.  https://en.wikipedia...outside_the_box

The phrase “short term memory” has a few “street” definitions as well as a fairly precise “scientific” definition and if what you’re experiencing isn’t a diminution of “the capacity for holding, but not manipulating, a small amount of information in mind in an active, readily available state for a short period of time.”, then your primary (“mostly” as you phrase it) memory problem wouldn’t be considered to be a diminished short-term memory in the scientific sense. The duration of short-term memory (when rehearsal or active maintenance is prevented) is believed to be in the order of seconds.

https://en.wikipedia...ort-term_memory

I’m not implying that you don’t have a short term memory problem I just want to confirm that your assertion conforms to the scientific definition, because there are important distinctions among the various types of memory--short-term memory, working memory, and long-term memory (long-term subsumes episodic, semantic, and procedural memory types). The explicit specification of which type(s) of memory degradation you experience can help those of us who are reading your posts to better understand some of what’s going on in order to, perhaps, offer relevant comment.

If you can confirm an actual, according to the definition, “short-term memory” problem as well as identify the balance of your memory problem (parts not included in your description: “mostly”) by stating the type(s) of memory that you consider to have been diminished from a few years ago, then that might give you, as well as the readers of your post, some clues that could suggest possible etiologies that may point toward possible causation.

Have you undergone an objective test of memory function, such as forward and backward digit span for short-term memory assessment? Or, are you mainly relying on a subjective self-assessment to substantiate your assertion of short-term memory loss? You state that you “can’t learn as quickly”. Do you have some objective measure for this claim or might it be some form of “self fulfilling prophecy”?

Working memory is a cognitive system with a limited capacity that is responsible for temporarily holding information available for processing.[1] Working memory is important for reasoning and the guidance of decision making and behavior.[2][3] Working memory is often used synonymously with short-term memory, but some theorists consider the two forms of memory distinct, assuming that working memory allows for the manipulation of stored information, whereas short-term memory only refers to the short-term storage of information.[2][4] Working memory is a theoretical concept central to cognitive psychology, neuropsychology, and neuroscience.  
https://en.wikipedia.../Working_memory


Episodic memory is “the memory of autobiographical events (times, places, associated emotions, and other contextual who, what, when, where, why knowledge) that can be explicitly stated or conjured. It is the collection of past personal experiences that occurred at a particular time and place.”  https://en.wikipedia...Episodic_memory

Semantic memory is one of the two types of declarative or explicit memory (our memory of facts or events that is explicitly stored and retrieved).[1] Semantic memory refers to general world knowledge that we have accumulated throughout our lives.[2] This general knowledge (facts, ideas, meaning and concepts) is intertwined in experience and dependent on culture.
https://en.wikipedia...Semantic_memory

Procedural memory is a type of implicit memory (unconscious memory) and long-term memory which aids the performance of particular types of tasks without conscious awareness of these previous experiences.
https://en.wikipedia...ocedural_memory

Episodic memory decline with anticholinergic drugs (who knows, may apply to younger people too). https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28407520

Are you taking any over-the-counter anticholinergic drugs such as benydril also see http://www.nhs.uk/ne...mmon-drugs.aspx



You state that you were “never a good sleeper”. That could mean a number of things--such as having trouble falling asleep or having trouble staying asleep or not sleeping as long as desired, or not being refreshed after sleeping because of intermittent awakenings, among others. The timing of your eating and exercising might be affecting your sleep patterns and thus potentially detrimentally affecting your memory and your state of fatigue. The daily hours you work might be important—day shift, night shift, variable shift, 8 hour, 10 hour, perhaps 12 or more hours such as some nurses and doctors perform, for example.

You exercise regularly, but at what time(s) of day?

We post readers don’t have access to your catamnesis or anamnesis, or to an exhaustive list of all (or as many as can be identified) changes in your lifestyle from a few years ago, including changes in prescription medications as well as over-the-counter supplements and medications, foods, etc. and also including possible changes in your home and work environments. You may have already considered those factors.

Can you obtain a copy of your MRI CD (or DVD) to examine for yourself?

I don’t know how the NHS works in the UK. I can ask, sometimes cajole ;) , my doctors to prescribe certain tests. If I was in your circumstances I’d ask for (or persuade in such a manner such that my doctor thinks it was his/her idea to prescribe) the following tests (not exhaustive, just examples):

magnesium—in order of preference--intracellular such as determined by the exatest http://www.exatest.com/physicians.htm , then RBC (red blood cell) magnesium. Finally, blood serum magnesium which isn’t likely to give you a good indication of intracellular levels, which are the important data to know, but may indicate a dietary deficiency. Restless legs and periodic limb movement may be a result of magnesium deficiency and as “prophets” pointed out in post #3 magnesium is also associated with cognition. If you suffer from fasciculations they may be associated with magnesium deficiency.  https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4455825/

cortisol—elevated levels can affect sleep as well as a host of other functions
vitamin D
thyroid function
metabolic panel
CBC
kidney function

Things you might  do for yourself, if not already doing so, and if so inclined:

blood pressure
SpO2 with a pulse oximeter
basal temperature
online digit span and n-back (some n-back can be download free of charge for offline use)

Good luck in your quest for answers and solutions!


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#13 Droplet

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 08:42 AM

Thank you for your input :) That is extremely scientific and I only got a pass at GCSE (don't know what the US equivalent of that is). I am going to answer some of the questions because someone else here may read and advise me further. I am sorry that I don't have the sort of scientific and academic knowledge as a lot of people here. What I do know is as far as my short term memory goes, I know that my colleagues have pointed it out to me and I know myself that my performance was terrible when I was taking the Trazadone. I would have terrible concentration, forget the things I'd only been told a moment ago. Upon stopping it, my ability to function improved somewhat but I know that I haven't had the full function back. I haven't went to see a professional specifically about my memory but I love learning things and notice a decline in my ability to do so after Trazadone. It has not gotten any worse, has got slightly better but is nothing like it used to be. Everything appeared to just "snap" when I was stressed by higher education and my insomnia became a problem that needed medical treatment, as it impaired me that much.

 

When I say that I have never been a good sleeper, I recall as a child that when I used to share a bed with my mother, she would say that my limbs would flail everywhere. Same when I slept with someone as an adult. I had PLMD way before taking statins but I got diagnosed later on when insomnia necessitated a sleep study. I also recall not being good at falling asleep as a child but it was usually one night  every so often without sleep and sometimes consecutive nights of reduced sleep but I would never have the being awake for days on end. I was often tired as a child as I am as a grown up, probably in part because of moving about in my sleep as well as effects of having a stroke. I had the stroke at nine and thankfully, no TIA or anything since. The Pregablin has helped me in that when I actually do achieve the goal of sleeping, it is more restful sleep and I don't feel worn out despite sleeping. However, whilst it has lessened, I still have daytime fatigue. Pregablin has also helped calm my trichotillomania and anxiety. I have less pulling episodes and it is harder for me to get to the level of anxiety that makes me rip hairs out.

 

I was put on statins as an adult as a precautionary measure due to my history of stroke. I tried to lower my cholesterol with a strict diet but that didn't work so I was put on statins. Never had any problems with Atorvostatin but the previous statins I had to stop, as they were to be taken at night and they did keep me awake. I have had a lot of the tests that you mention - I'm turning this into a tick box game now! :-D I am going to ask about vitamin deficiency tests if after I get my homocysteine test, this is not flagging up issues. I know that for some people, high homocysteine can cause the type of sleep problems and it can be helped with high vitamin B dosage. As far as magnesium goes, I was given a remedy that is supposed to give you magnesium that requires boiling bananas. I will be trying it because I will try anything that helps. I was tested for breathing during my sleep study and there is zero issue there - I had the little plastic comb under my nose, the heart monitors, the brain monitors, that belt they make you wear...it was a thorough test to rule out as much as they could. My blood pressure is regularly checked both at the GP and home and it is okay.

 

I exercise most days for about an hour and the time depends what I am doing. Latest time is 9pm on account of attending a class during those hours. Impossible to do at any other hours, as I work all day. Even though I have the fatigue I do push myself and try to stay active even when I would rather not. I have hemiparesis so I can only do certain things and can't do them as well as people without my condition but I do exercise. I do a 9 - 5 weekday shift, stereotypical office hours. :)

 

I don't know if you could get your MRI scan copies from a doctor but if it is any help to anyone reading this, my stroke is a deep temporal lobe lacuna infarct on my right hemisphere. My memory has been affected by the stroke but it is my visual memory and that is something I've had for much of my life and I'm not concerned about. It has never got worse and I can remember words and what I hear better so I can get around it. I am not exposed to pathogens through my work -I am an office worker.

 

I haven't changed much in terms of diet or life - the biggest change is that I'm no longer doing a degree and I am so relieved that it is over with! :)  I am only taking what I have already listed. Medically, I went on Trazaone and came off it, same with Melatonin. My statin dosage hasn't changed in years since I started in my twenties (I'm in my thirties now). I also tried every herbal and over the counter sleep remedy you could think of. I actually remember going to my pharmacist the one time, being told what they can give me without prescription and realising that  I had sampled the lot. :-/ I used to be a moderate drinker but since I was put on Pregablin, alcohol just makes me miserable and causes insomnia relapses so I have been teetotal since January. I am not too bothered about having to go teetotal.

 

Thank you to everyone for their help and if I have illuminated anything further and someone can help me further, I would be grateful. :) Just be aware that I am not a scientist and my knowledge in such areas is limited.


Edited by Droplet, 06 July 2017 - 08:45 AM.


#14 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:10 PM

Droplet,

 

Here is a link to a web page where you can download a dual n-back program:

 

http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/

 

There are suggestions that practicing n-back and dual n-back might increase memory ability and a type of intelligence called "fluid intelligence" or "Gf". In any case, whether or not practicing n-back and/or dual n-back can increase Gf, it can give you an indication of your current short-term memory capacity.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back

 

Practicing the dual n-back program found at the link I gave above should allow you to increase your dual n-back performance over time. It's fairly difficult at first so don't be discouraged if you decide to try it and find it mind-numbing because it should get easier with practice. It does have a strong visual element to it so you may find it more difficult to progress to higher n-back levels than a typical user.

 

I, and hopefully others, will have additional comments on your posts--my added comments will come several days from now.



#15 Rick05

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:31 AM

well memory impairment is effect of chronic insomia often. In my situation recently I sleep like a rock but it doesnt help my memory. 

 

Have you tried trymptophane and alprazolam (xanax) ? I sleep really long after those and feels like very deep. I'm a little bit more restful after these but I might be having some liver/kidney/stomach issues that coexist into the problem



#16 Droplet

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:32 AM

well memory impairment is effect of chronic insomia often. In my situation recently I sleep like a rock but it doesnt help my memory. 

 

Have you tried trymptophane and alprazolam (xanax) ? I sleep really long after those and feels like very deep. I'm a little bit more restful after these but I might be having some liver/kidney/stomach issues that coexist into the problem

 

I have not tried Xanax and as far as I'm aware, it is another  potentially addictive prescription drug that I'm trying to avoid.

 

I can report that the banana tea thing didn't work and it just resulted in me getting up to pee all night. I also tried pumpkin seeds before bedtime. Whilst my sleep hasn't improved, I have noticed that I feel better since having a handful of pumpkin seeds daily and a banana for breakfast. Hoping to get my homocysteine test results back this week.
 



#17 Droplet

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:17 AM

Update: the addition of a handful of pumpkin seeds and one banana in the morning seems to have helped a bit with the daily fatigue but I am still not back to my old motivated levels, nor is my sleep properly fixed. I think that as already suggested, magnesium deficiency and possibly other deficiencies are partially to blame (hence the pumpkin seeds being of some help). Just glad to have found something that appears to offer a bit of alleviation and I'm sharing in case someone is reading this and suffering exactly the same issues as me. Still not got my blood test back but it may offer some clues.



#18 Droplet

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:02 AM

Just an update - I have experienced amazing results with legal CBD oil and being put on a high dose of vitamin D by my GP. I am sleeping normally and my anxiety is much improved. I don't think my memory is quite back to what it was but my concentration is a lot better. Everyone around me has noticed a positive difference and I no longer feel daytime fatigue. :) I know that this solution may not help everyone but it has helped me.


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#19 lrdmelchett

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:48 AM

Thank you for sharing your story, Droplet.

 

So, I'm in much of the same situation - minus the traumatic brain injury you suffered as a child (I'm hesitant on this point - see below).

 

Some history.

 

First experience with low grade insomnia.  Age 30-36.  Seizure at age 36.  There were no clear deficits that I could attribute to the seizure, but I do wonder.

 

After a serious of events that triggered what on the surface seemed to be GAD (more likely PTSD) at age 37, I was Rx Trazodone for severe sleep maintenance insomnia.  Over a course of 3 years of being on Trazodone majority of days there was mild to moderate cognitive dulling and my memory was bad enough for others to mention.  So, yes, Trazodone can cause memory issues.  I see a lot of anecdotes from Trazodone users stating that they feel just fine, but I'm left wondering if they lead lives that do not rigorously leverage memory or not self aware enough to pick up on it.  I can't say.

 

Now, after being off of Trazodone for one year I can say that the slowness I experienced while on it hasn't completely dissipated.  My memory and ability to learn has recovered only partially.  I guess I might describe it as what feels like add odd memory and learning latency.  There is what feels to me as an unusual delay in recall, focus and memorization requires more concentration.  There are good times and bad times, but overall cognition is just not as fluid.  Having been a person that enjoyed, and used, an excellent memory in terms of both encoding/consolidation as well as sharp recall I might be more sensitive than others in noticing my condition.  There was definitely a point where I said to myself, "This Trazodone is really screwing with me."  At that point I began to research alternatives and plan transition.  My speculation is that 5HT-2A/2C interference can be detrimental to cognition - and some being more sensitive to these modifications than others.  If my speculation is correct, at least in my case, I toy with the idea of 5HT upregulation since Trazodone and other 5HT antagonists are reported to downregulate these receptors.  

 

I don't have an answer to helping cognition.  Using these forums for research, I have tried about 15 substances so far to explore what may help restore cognitive fluidity.  I haven't yet even found a decent, consistent replacement for Trazodone for insomnia.  I'm well beyond the supplement arena, tried 4 tricyclics with different receptor profiles (less 5HT action), Prozasin (a1a antagonism did nothing for sleep quality, but the hypotension could be felt in the AM), MK-677 (GH/IGF induced sleep changes - best result of all, but still inconsistent), and I'm now moving to the last couple, most certain, but least safe options that do not impact 5HT, Histamine, adrenergic at all.  The GH induced increase in delta sleep really is personally impressive (and pertinent to my situation of sleep maintenance insomnia)  - it's just in the form of MK-677 it is not consistent enough and with the side effects of daytime lethargy due to intraday GH pulses.  I suppose it's a progression of trial and error and what makes surveillance forums like this very valuable.

 

What I can say is this.  Posts like this provide relevance to trial certain substances.  OP's experience has now given me a good reason to trail the substances he had success with.  Anyone with similar experiences with a good, or even partially positive outcome in the same vein as insomnia and 5HT modulation induced cognitive impairment - please post your story on this thread.  With a limited budget to trial substances it's these posts that provide some relevance that I really appreciate.


Edited by lrdmelchett, 16 March 2018 - 01:55 AM.


#20 justmodz

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 12:37 PM

Sublingual - for use under the tongue, also what was the dose of the melatonin?

 

Melatonin is available over the counter at most grocers in the US, but is a scheduled substance in the UK iirc. Bovine bone marrow comes in a pill and is usually listed along with glandular substances. Self titrate means take as needed, try 500mg day one and add 500mg each day thereafter and at different times during the day to get the timing just right for your metabolism, then keep trying to get off of it or at least reduce the dose should eventually get you to the right melatonin level. You may need to take more periodically.

 

 

regards melatonin in the UK you can buy it over the counter here and is readily available but yes it is available on prescription from the doctor as well  

 

Schedule 5 drugs are sold over the counter and can be legally possessed without a prescription in the UK.  Schedule 5 contains drugs that are considered to have therapeutic value and are commonly available as over the counter medicines.



#21 YoungSchizo

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:05 PM

Just a quick question (don't want to High-Jack).. Lurasidone and Mirtazapine are both converted by the liver enzymes CYP3A4, could that be the reason why they interact really bad and causes my sleeping disorder?

Edited by YoungSchizo, 19 April 2018 - 01:07 PM.


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#22 sentics

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 11:34 AM

Just a quick question (don't want to High-Jack).. Lurasidone and Mirtazapine are both converted by the liver enzymes CYP3A4, could that be the reason why they interact really bad and causes my sleeping disorder?

 

sure is possible, have no idea about the likelihood though.

 

I'm running into trouble myself that started a couple of days ago because Amitriptyline and Cymbalta - which i both take - is a combo that gives me hypotension, very uncomfortable. the reason being that both drugs are potent CYP1A2 inhibitors, really don't know how to proceed at this point other than trying to reduce both dosages

 

slightly OT, sorry 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: insomnia, periodic limb movement disorder, memory loss, trazadone, childhood stroke, pregablin, cva, restless legs, sleep disorder

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