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How to induce better sleep quality, keep waking up due to dreaming

dreaming sleep maintenance insomnia insomnia

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#31 prunk

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 12:06 PM

Ok, maybe I'll try it again with a smaller dose. Does reishi have any effects on platelets and/or white blood cells?

#32 YoungSchizo

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 08:03 AM

Well, here I am again. Meanwhile since my last post not much has been changed, if not, some things got better some things got worse.

Even though I do not score high enough (breathingstops) to get diagnosed for sleep apnea I got a CPAP machine prescription anyway. I've trialed it for the past few months, my breathingstops lowered but my issue (waking up frequently due to dreams didn't, at all).

Since a couple of months I couldn't take it anymore that I woke up so many times at night and (forcefully) divided my sleep into 2 phases of 3/4 hours. After 4 hours I couldn't sleep anymore and out of frustration got out of bed and sit for a couple hours and go back to sleep again for several hours. I kept this cycle going for a few months.

Since more than a month I quit Mirtazapine, Zyprexa and alcohol. Alcohol + Mirtazapine in the weekend gave me a solid 10 hours sleep, the only combo that had this effect on me. However, since I quit Mirtazapine + Zyprexa I found out my depressive symptoms , the content and vividness of my dreams also changed for the better (especially depressive symptoms improved big time)! I also can sleep-in naturally which was impossible(!) since I got schizophrenia (13 years ago). Even though these are great "improvements" the frequency of waking up (due to dreams) did not change at all.
The downside (on my sleep-cycle) since I got rid of these 3 drugs is that I have way to much energy (even though I run 15KM a day). My night sleep is 3-4 hours max. and the rest of the 3-4 hours is scattered throughout the day (in phases of 1-2 hours sleep). So now I'm not sleeping once, twice but 3-4 times a day and I feel like I'm forced to or I will get depressed and have cognitive issues.

My pdoc doesn't know what to give me anymore since I tried all sleep-aids with no avail.

My sleep clinic doc has no authority to prescribe me drugs and only offers a couple of appointments with a sleep psychologist.

And I don't know what OTC drugs/supplements I can use since I pretty much tried everything.

(Since I only react positive to alcohol induced sleep I want to ask my GP for something that looks chemically similar, Xyrem (pharmaceutical grade GHB) but I'm afraid I won't get it since it's only indicated for narcoleptics with night-sleep disorders.)

Any input, ideas, suggestions?

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#33 YoungSchizo

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:48 PM

Well thanks for the suggestions  :mellow:  :unsure:

 

Anyway, in the meantime I had my second Polysomnography done. According to my sleep-doc my sleep-stages are quite normal and the results are somewhat the same as the results from the sleep-study from April earlier this year.

Her diagnoses: disrupted sleep/wake cycle (again). To the question why I wake-up due to dreaming: (again) no answer. Her only advice (again): therapy from a sleep psychologist.

I added a screenshot of the results from the latest Polysomnography, what do you guys can make of this? (btw they only measured the sleep-stages of my 3.44 hours night-sleep)

 

(I'll translate the report "samenvatting" under at the page)

- Medication Lurasidone 74mg, 1mg Clonazepam, Parnate 20mg

- GSS6, same. Has the feeling he only slept 4 hours.

- Takes a nap from 13.47 - 15.36 (NREM I, II and REM, REM lat. 66' and a nap from 23.30 - 00.06 hours (NREM I, II and SWS).

- In bed at 03.20, woke up at 07.39 hours.

- Night-sleep divided over 3 periods throughout the day.

- The period in bed (the 4 hours sleep at nighttime) low SWS and REM sleep.

- Quite heavy snoring, AHI 7,8, especially REM related (AHI REM 20,5).

 

I have a tiny idea how to read the graph, however I don't know anything about what to make of the sleep-stages, how long they should be and what's considered normal. The only thing I focused on and what's also seen in the graph is after each blue-phase (dreaming) there's a spike that I wake-up and have to fall back to sleep again.

 

Attached Files


Edited by YoungSchizo, 18 November 2018 - 08:44 PM.


#34 Caravaggio

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 02:23 PM

The nap at 13.47 - 15.36 probably indicates a digestion problem, did you eat at 12 pm?



#35 YoungSchizo

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:49 PM

The nap at 13.47 - 15.36 probably indicates a digestion problem, did you eat at 12 pm?


No, I only drink a coffee (milk, sugar) when I wake up at 08/09, then drink 2 biological green tea (no additives) and then go for a 7/11KM run on the elliptical. After I'm back from the gym I take Lurasidone and Parnate (around 12/01pm). Drink two more green tea's and go to bed (around 03pm), sometimes because I feel bored/tired (because I feel like I didn't sleep well or have not much going on), other times because I feel depressed and/or empty (symptoms) but I think the real cause is because of the medication, once they're in my system it's like something in me mentally shots off and the only way to go through that feeling is by sleeping it off. Not a tired feeling or I would've taken it at night, but more of a mental discomfort. After a 2 hour nap it resolves and I feel refreshed to hit the gym again for another 7/11KM. (I'm in the middle of losing weight and it goes pretty well like this.)

Edited by YoungSchizo, 20 November 2018 - 08:16 PM.


#36 Pereise1

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 08:13 PM

Well thanks for the suggestions  :mellow:  :unsure:

 

Anyway, in the meantime I had my second Polysomnography done. According to my sleep-doc my sleep-stages are quite normal and the results are somewhat the same as the results from the sleep-study from April earlier this year.

Her diagnoses: disrupted sleep/wake cycle (again). To the question why I wake-up due to dreaming: (again) no answer. Her only advice (again): therapy from a sleep psychologist.

I added a screenshot of the results from the latest Polysomnography, what do you guys can make of this? (btw they only measured the sleep-stages of my 3.44 hours night-sleep)

 

(I'll translate the report "samenvatting" under at the page)

- Medication Lurasidone 74mg, 1mg Clonazepam, Parnate 20mg

- GSS6, same. Has the feeling he only slept 4 hours.

- Takes a nap from 13.47 - 15.36 (NREM I, II and REM, REM lat. 66' and a nap from 23.30 - 00.06 hours (NREM I, II and SWS).

- In bed at 03.20, woke up at 07.39 hours.

- Night-sleep divided over 3 periods throughout the day.

- The period in bed (the 4 hours sleep at nighttime) low SWS and REM sleep.

- Quite heavy snoring, AHI 7,8, especially REM related (AHI REM 20,5).

 

I have a tiny idea how to read the graph, however I don't know anything about what to make of the sleep-stages, how long they should be and what's considered normal. The only thing I focused on and what's also seen in the graph is after each blue-phase (dreaming) there's a spike that I wake-up and have to fall back to sleep again.

 

 

I've had 4 sleep studies done, 2 MSLTs, and have Narcolepsy, so let me see if I can take a stab at it.

 

Any idea if they measured how many Sleep Stage Shifts they registered? Anyways, the serotonin system has a lot of input into sleep and waking up. 5-HT3 antagonists, which are supposed to be useful for schizophrenia, are also useful for sleep consolidation. Antagonizing 5-HT2A increases slow wave sleep, and antagonizing 5-HT2C decreases stage shifts and arousals.

 

However, it sounds like you've tried all that through Mirtazapine, among other meds. I also have excessive dreaming which wakes me the hell up many nights. While the cause may not be the same, I've gotten help from the occasional (2-3x a week) 2.5g dose of phenibut combined with a fresh cold water extract of Kava. Baclofen is a good, low tolerance building alternative to Phenibut. Both reduce the quantity and intensity of dreams in my experience. Sauna use also increases growth hormone, so it should theoretically improve sleep as well. 

 

As a last note, I found the following study excerpt interesting as far as REM related apneas:

 

Upper airway obstruction can occur in both non-rapid eye movement (NREM) sleep and during REM sleep. However, there is an increased tendency for upper airway collapse during REM sleep due to the decreased genioglossus muscle tone secondary to the cholinergic mediated inhibition of the hypoglossal nerve [68]. Increased sympathetic activity is widely considered to be the major putative mechanism by which OSA increases cardiovascular risk [9].

 

 

So perhaps a lower dose of an anticholinergic/antihistamine like Cyproheptadine might help? It's supposed to help both positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia as well.



#37 YoungSchizo

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 08:50 PM

I've had 4 sleep studies done, 2 MSLTs, and have Narcolepsy, so let me see if I can take a stab at it.

Any idea if they measured how many Sleep Stage Shifts they registered? Anyways, the serotonin system has a lot of input into sleep and waking up. 5-HT3 antagonists, which are supposed to be useful for schizophrenia, are also useful for sleep consolidation. Antagonizing 5-HT2A increases slow wave sleep, and antagonizing 5-HT2C decreases stage shifts and arousals.

However, it sounds like you've tried all that through Mirtazapine, among other meds. I also have excessive dreaming which wakes me the hell up many nights. While the cause may not be the same, I've gotten help from the occasional (2-3x a week) 2.5g dose of phenibut combined with a fresh cold water extract of Kava. Baclofen is a good, low tolerance building alternative to Phenibut. Both reduce the quantity and intensity of dreams in my experience. Sauna use also increases growth hormone, so it should theoretically improve sleep as well.

As a last note, I found the following study excerpt interesting as far as REM related apneas:


So perhaps a lower dose of an anticholinergic/antihistamine like Cyproheptadine might help? It's supposed to help both positive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia as well.


I have no idea if they measured Sleep Stage Shifts, if they did, I have no idea what it's called in Dutch. But I guess they didn't, this is the full report of the Poly and it's in English.

Yes, I've tried pretty much every sedating AP/AD possible but it didn't change anything. Well, like I said in my earlier post, my quality of sleep, mood and symptoms got even better when I dropped Zyprexa and Mirtazapine.

Since narcoleptics also wake-up frequently at night due to dreaming I asked if that might be it, but that isn't the case with me according to my sleep-doc.

Baclofen and Cyproheptadine are luckily available in the Netherlands, I'll have a look into it. Phenibut I can import. I love the sauna but the gym's sauna is a infrared one and it gives me some sort of rash and pimples on my face, so that's not an option.

First I'm gonna ask my GP for Xyrem since all my sleep issues reacts positive to something similar, alcohol. (BTW since you do suffer from narcolepsy, why aren't you using Xyrem, it's supposed to be a miracle drug for narcoleptics).

Anyway, those mentioned meds I haven't tried, thanks for the advice!

#38 MankindRising

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 04:14 PM

I disagree on your stance on schizophrenia and Memantine.

https://www.hindawi....a/2017/7021071/

 

I would feel blessed with a 21% reduction in negative symptoms. Afaik, Memantine is a very weak D2 agonist which should not cause a problem while on antipsychotics. Memantine is also a potent 5HT3 antagonist. 

 

Anyway, it'll take probably a month before I start experimenting with Memantine.. What I'm also very curious about is if Memantine is able to counteract the sleep inducing tolerance I've (might have) developed against Mirtazapine?

 

Anyone?

Memantine is a very potent drug and pro-euphoric when I tried it (only was on 5mg aswell). Also memantine can keep you from falling asleep, I didnt had problems with actually staying asleep on it.

Trust me, memantine is not something to be taken lightly such as taking a zinc tablet or some magnesium.



#39 YoungSchizo

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 05:13 PM

Memantine is a very potent drug and pro-euphoric when I tried it (only was on 5mg aswell). Also memantine can keep you from falling asleep, I didnt had problems with actually staying asleep on it.
Trust me, memantine is not something to be taken lightly such as taking a zinc tablet or some magnesium.


I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or another but I trialed Memantine last year. The first two days it caused hallucinations and anxiety right before falling asleep. When I upped the dosage to 10mg after a week I had severe 'psychotic thoughts' and felt really off and depressed. I quit immediately after that.

I was also drinking back then in the weekend's, that may have exacerbated my symptoms or I moved too quickly up to 10mg. I could try it again since I still have a box left but for now I'm not planning to or in the near future.
As for now, my positive symptoms is minimal and the "extreme" exercise regimen I'm following helps me (especially my mood) so I don't feel the need to experiment with off-label drugs for negative symptoms.

Also, Cariprazine came on the Dutch market this month (followed by Brexpiprazole first half of 2019), I'll be switching Cariprazine for Latuda very soon. Let's see how I react to that.

#40 Pereise1

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 06:04 PM

I have no idea if they measured Sleep Stage Shifts, if they did, I have no idea what it's called in Dutch. But I guess they didn't, this is the full report of the Poly and it's in English.

Yes, I've tried pretty much every sedating AP/AD possible but it didn't change anything. Well, like I said in my earlier post, my quality of sleep, mood and symptoms got even better when I dropped Zyprexa and Mirtazapine.

Since narcoleptics also wake-up frequently at night due to dreaming I asked if that might be it, but that isn't the case with me according to my sleep-doc.

Baclofen and Cyproheptadine are luckily available in the Netherlands, I'll have a look into it. Phenibut I can import. I love the sauna but the gym's sauna is a infrared one and it gives me some sort of rash and pimples on my face, so that's not an option.

First I'm gonna ask my GP for Xyrem since all my sleep issues reacts positive to something similar, alcohol. (BTW since you do suffer from narcolepsy, why aren't you using Xyrem, it's supposed to be a miracle drug for narcoleptics).

Anyway, those mentioned meds I haven't tried, thanks for the advice!

 

 

It's been proven that you can have dreams in NREM sleep, so just because your REM sleep stage isn't especially high doesn't mean that you're not dreaming a lot. Plus, this was less than 4hrs worth of data, so of course you'd have less REM than normal. As for Xyrem, the reason I can't take it is because the USA hates the working poor, so my Medicaid refuses to cover it because Jazz Pharmaceuticals, the only company authorized to sell Xyrem, charges in excess of $10,000 a month for something that costs less than $100 a month to make. But if you can get your hands on it, all power to you. If not, (Ami)sulpride upregulates the GHB receptor, and in low doses, increases activation of the D2L receptor by blocking the presynaptic receptor, which is helpful for good sleep.

 

That said, if you experience high body heat or night sweats with your dreaming, your sleep problems may be due to inflammation, which is supposed to be high in schizophrenia no? Try and see if you get any relief from taking a good COX-2 inhibitor with your dinner, or consuming a 1:1 or 2:1 - CBD:THC strain of cannabis, to lower neuroinflammation before sleeping. Excessive cytokines in the hypothalamus don't allow for normal sleep, instead giving constant "fever dreams" that many people with Narcolepsy experience night after night. 



#41 YoungSchizo

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:52 PM

It's been proven that you can have dreams in NREM sleep, so just because your REM sleep stage isn't especially high doesn't mean that you're not dreaming a lot. Plus, this was less than 4hrs worth of data, so of course you'd have less REM than normal. As for Xyrem, the reason I can't take it is because the USA hates the working poor, so my Medicaid refuses to cover it because Jazz Pharmaceuticals, the only company authorized to sell Xyrem, charges in excess of $10,000 a month for something that costs less than $100 a month to make. But if you can get your hands on it, all power to you. If not, (Ami)sulpride upregulates the GHB receptor, and in low doses, increases activation of the D2L receptor by blocking the presynaptic receptor, which is helpful for good sleep.

That said, if you experience high body heat or night sweats with your dreaming, your sleep problems may be due to inflammation, which is supposed to be high in schizophrenia no? Try and see if you get any relief from taking a good COX-2 inhibitor with your dinner, or consuming a 1:1 or 2:1 - CBD:THC strain of cannabis, to lower neuroinflammation before sleeping. Excessive cytokines in the hypothalamus don't allow for normal sleep, instead giving constant "fever dreams" that many people with Narcolepsy experience night after night.

I bet I dream more than I realize, there are even times when I have lucid dreams (sadly not much as I like to have), even though I'm half awake and realize it I can somewhat steer my dreams and sleep at the same time, it feels like some sort of meditation, very pleasant, relax and refreshing.
The dreams I wake up to are also not bad dreams at all too but they'll just continue in context if I do not open my eyes, so I actually forcefully wake-up every 2-3 hours from it.

Aah yeah, the shitty overpriced American medication/insurance story, know that one from other boards.
I doubt I can get Xyrem though because it's solely indicated for Narcolepsy. Maybe as a last resort, if sleep therapy won't help, then I'll make a chance I guess.

Didn't know that about (Ami)sulpride. I'm interested in Ami because of the encouraging studies on the positive effects on negative symptoms in low dosages. But it's not available in the Netherlands either, though, the Dutch medicine authority is planning to still bring it on the market in the future.
I have researched Sulpride a bit in the past and I didn't like it all and will most likely never try it because it's another sedating/zombifying and fat-making AP.

The night-sweats issue resolved luckily after I quit Mirtazapine. Mirt and Latuda are interacting badly, I already knew this from the start on that combo but I had no other option than to stay on both and look for a dosage balance to minimize the interaction.

The CBD:THC option is not an option. I don't tolerate just a tiny bit of THC (THC is what triggered schizophrenia). However I experimented already with CBD oil and strains over the past few years, (positive and negative) had really mixed results on it. I haven't given up yet and will try a high dose CBD oil in the future, both affordable and from a reputable/reliable source.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 21 November 2018 - 07:56 PM.


#42 MankindRising

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 10:21 AM

I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread or another but I trialed Memantine last year. The first two days it caused hallucinations and anxiety right before falling asleep. When I upped the dosage to 10mg after a week I had severe 'psychotic thoughts' and felt really off and depressed. I quit immediately after that.

I was also drinking back then in the weekend's, that may have exacerbated my symptoms or I moved too quickly up to 10mg. I could try it again since I still have a box left but for now I'm not planning to or in the near future.
As for now, my positive symptoms is minimal and the "extreme" exercise regimen I'm following helps me (especially my mood) so I don't feel the need to experiment with off-label drugs for negative symptoms.

Also, Cariprazine came on the Dutch market this month (followed by Brexpiprazole first half of 2019), I'll be switching Cariprazine for Latuda very soon. Let's see how I react to that.

I must have read past that you allready used it in the past.

Got asperger syndrome and adhd pi and have quite a few 'shizo' alleles in my 23andme data and I could feel its strong dissociative like quality (I seem to be very sensitive to nmda antagonism) and that was on 5mg only, I could see how memantine has recreational potential.



#43 Justin BoBustinBananaFanaF

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:01 PM

I'm pretty sure reishi gave me horrible insomnia for almost 2 weeks. Really strange.

 

It seems like Reishi has multiple different actions (For example, I believe it lowers histamine and contains adenosine). Sometimes for some brands and some doses help, other times Reishi seems to hurt my sleep. Has anyone figured out how to dose/time reishi to avoid sleep problems they had with Reishi at a different dosage?



#44 Justin BoBustinBananaFanaF

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:04 PM

I found that higher doses (2 or more teaspoons) of Reishi sometimes ruined sleep while normal dose ½ - 1 teaspoon improved it. Cordyceps I can take big amounts without issues.

 

Is this an extract? Which brand do you use? Do you take it every day? Do you take it in the morning? Your experience seems similar to mine and I appreciate the feedback (right now I will lower the dose)

 

By the way where did you learn about TCM? You seem to know a lot about it and I'd love to read the books you've read.



#45 Justin BoBustinBananaFanaF

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:07 PM

The CBD:THC option is not an option. I don't tolerate just a tiny bit of THC (THC is what triggered schizophrenia). However I experimented already with CBD oil and strains over the past few years, (positive and negative) had really mixed results on it. I haven't given up yet and will try a high dose CBD oil in the future, both affordable and from a reputable/reliable source.

 

You might want to try CBD isolate. I've disassociated on CBD extract and I tolerate Isolate much better (it is one of my better sleep supps)
 



#46 mono

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 06:02 PM

I had this same problem, as I have schizoaffective too, and I tried a number of things. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and naturally tried a cpap machine but it did not work either. You wanna know what did work? ECT! 2 sessions in and I’ve had the best sleep in YEARS. It has also reduced the level of fibromyalgia pain in my hips so I don’t have to roll over every half hour which is great. At this rate I’ll be back at work again in no time and with my diagnosis that really means something. ECT, worth considering despite the misconceptions held by the general public.

#47 YoungSchizo

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 01:51 AM

I had this same problem, as I have schizoaffective too, and I tried a number of things. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and naturally tried a cpap machine but it did not work either. You wanna know what did work? ECT! 2 sessions in and I’ve had the best sleep in YEARS. It has also reduced the level of fibromyalgia pain in my hips so I don’t have to roll over every half hour which is great. At this rate I’ll be back at work again in no time and with my diagnosis that really means something. ECT, worth considering despite the misconceptions held by the general public.

 

ECT I do not know what to think of it buddy. Some people say it really messed up their mind, some people say the opposite. I'm keeping ECT, as well for schizophrenia and as well for depression and cognition as a last resort buddy.



#48 mono

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 06:44 AM

From what I understand the side effects are generally transient and it is an effective treatment if you can look past the stigma. It is proving to work quite well for me anyway, with minimal adverse effects thus far.

Edited by mono, 24 February 2019 - 07:12 AM.

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#49 YoungSchizo

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:33 PM

Well as I expected, that my sleep/wake cycle is out of wack turns out to be BS. I was told my circadian rhythm is disrupted because I slept late and twice/thrice a day. It's been 2 months that I sleep between 10/12PM instead of 3/4AM and only sleep once.

My disrupted sleep is still the same, I still wake up every hour or 2 due to dreaming, my sleep is still light and max 4/5 hours total.

Because of this I eventually got depressed and turned to alcoholism again because it's so deep and refreshing when drinking. I know I can't continue like this but I'm sure I can't be the only one with this problem.

#50 YoungSchizo

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 11:51 AM

-edit- Also I would like to add that I did not try all advised medication/supplements in this thread. But I bookmarked all of them to resolve this torture/discomfort I'm having with my sleeping disorder and I will get the money to try any single one of those.

 

As one of my latest resort was CBD, I tried this American imported CBD oil and it didn't do anything, nothing for my mood/anxiety or sleep-disorder (even on a larger dose than advised because I also suffer from schizophrenia and it didn't do anything for it either).


Edited by YoungSchizo, 03 March 2019 - 11:54 AM.


#51 YoungSchizo

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 12:02 PM

From what I understand the side effects are generally transient and it is an effective treatment if you can look past the stigma. It is proving to work quite well for me anyway, with minimal adverse effects thus far.

 

I might go for ECT if TMS doesn't work out. I have an appointment upcoming Tuesday to convince my doc I suffer from depression and need an indication for depression to get it covered by insurance.



#52 Caravaggio

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 02:53 PM

Since I take a high dosage of copper (12 mg per day) I sleep much better.

 

Copper seems to have an effect on the circadian clock. You should try that.

 

Eur J Neurosci. 2018 Sep 30.

Copper in the suprachiasmatic circadian clock: A possible link between multiple circadian oscillators.
Yamada Y, Prosser RA.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30269387

 

Plant Signal Behav. 2010 Oct

Copper homeostasis influences the circadian clock in Arabidopsis
Ana Perea-García, Nuria Andrés-Colás, and Lola Peñarrubia

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3115356/



#53 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 03:34 PM

Since I take a high dosage of copper (12 mg per day) I sleep much better.

 

Copper seems to have an effect on the circadian clock. You should try that.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30269387

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3115356/

 

Copper is generally considered to be a metal we have in excess though, and is generally seen as the metal that needs to be held LOWEST compared to Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium and so on - it is toxic in higher dosages, after all - LITHIUM has a tremendous amount of evidence showing affinity for the Circadian Rhytm as well, and even though, yes, it's also toxic to an extent, it's generally not considered as sensitive or dangerous to over-dose as Copper - it also has a tremendous amount of psychiatrically beneficial effects.

 

As such, I'd recommend Lithium instead of Copper.
 


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#54 YoungSchizo

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 10:25 PM

I've read copper is elevated in schizophrenia and like mind-paralysis says it can be very toxic.
I also can't get anything else, my GP, sleep doc and psychiatrist are working against me. Since I got two polysomnogram's and around 10 "sleep" medication switches they're pushing me to talk with a sleep psychologist. I'm pretty much screwed since I know it won't help or change anything.

Funny how 3 institutions can simply dismiss the fact that my sleep disorder started right after my full-blown psychosis in 2016 (because of the psychosis and not the psychological effects) and know they all simply just blame my sleep disorder because there's something wrong with my "sleep-attitude" and let me rot. Fuck them!

#55 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 06:10 PM

I've read copper is elevated in schizophrenia and like mind-paralysis says it can be very toxic.
I also can't get anything else, my GP, sleep doc and psychiatrist are working against me. Since I got two polysomnogram's and around 10 "sleep" medication switches they're pushing me to talk with a sleep psychologist. I'm pretty much screwed since I know it won't help or change anything.

Funny how 3 institutions can simply dismiss the fact that my sleep disorder started right after my full-blown psychosis in 2016 (because of the psychosis and not the psychological effects) and know they all simply just blame my sleep disorder because there's something wrong with my "sleep-attitude" and let me rot. Fuck them!

 

I won't try to defend your Dr's, because they should have been able to help you by now - but... it's fully possible that your sleep-disorder has nothing to do with your psychosis - remember, correlation does not equal causation. It could just be happen-stance that something changed in your physiology at around the same time as you had the psychosis.

 

For instance, I broke my sacroiliac joint at around the same time I got depression - but the two aren't actually related - I got depressed because multiple people in my social circle died, not because my hips where hurting. It would be easy to think it was the physical pain that did it though.

 

Something similar could be the case for you.


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#56 CWF1986

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 09:27 PM

I know that for me, clonidine gave me very deep and dreamless sleep.  It is known to increase non-rem deep sleep.

 

Something that stood out to me is that you take Parnate.  It's known to have insomnia as one of it's possible sides.  Not only is it because of it's effects on 5-HT and NE, but in addition to it's MAOI properties it also has amphetamine like properties.  Nardil is the MAOI that's more likely to reduce anxiety and help with sleep.  


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#57 YoungSchizo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:10 PM

I won't try to defend your Dr's, because they should have been able to help you by now - but... it's fully possible that your sleep-disorder has nothing to do with your psychosis - remember, correlation does not equal causation. It could just be happen-stance that something changed in your physiology at around the same time as you had the psychosis.

For instance, I broke my sacroiliac joint at around the same time I got depression - but the two aren't actually related - I got depressed because multiple people in my social circle died, not because my hips where hurting. It would be easy to think it was the physical pain that did it though.

Something similar could be the case for you.


You're somewhat right and wrong. When I had my first psychosis (that was the heaviest of them all) I could only sleep 1-2 hours. This was fixed later with Zyprexa and it got even better with adding Mirtazapine.
The third and latest psychosis differs from the first and second. There was some sort of energy build up in my brain, when it got released (the psychosis itself occuring) my sleep disorder (waking up from dreams) started the same day. I totally do not agree with the professionals this has to do with circadian rhythm and/or my sleep/wake cycle and I believe this issue can only be resolved with the right med.
Thanks to their "superior knowledge" I have to wait for some (bogus) psychological help and keep on suffering until they're proven wrong which will take another many months of suffering.

#58 YoungSchizo

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:36 PM

I know that for me, clonidine gave me very deep and dreamless sleep. It is known to increase non-rem deep sleep.


Thanks for the advice on Clonidine. Since there's no way I could get those from my practitioners I'm going to look on the net and order it.

Something that stood out to me is that you take Parnate. It's known to have insomnia as one of it's possible sides. Not only is it because of it's effects on 5-HT and NE, but in addition to it's MAOI properties it also has amphetamine like properties. Nardil is the MAOI that's more likely to reduce anxiety and help with sleep.


I only take 20mg of Parnate, that's not even a therapeutic dose and I rather crash from it (sedation) rather than get stimulated.
I've tried to come off of it but it's too beneficial for suicidal ideation and thought disorder like symptoms which Latuda alone don't seem to help with alone.
What I also like about it, it seems like I dream less on it (but I'm not really sure if I can contribute it completely to Parnate)

#59 mono

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:05 AM

I might go for ECT if TMS doesn't work out. I have an appointment upcoming Tuesday to convince my doc I suffer from depression and need an indication for depression to get it covered by insurance.


That sounds wise. It sure does impact the memory, but I have been told and read that effect is not lasting. It was still somewhat of a last option for me when medication was not working. I will let you know how it pans out anyway.

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#60 YoungSchizo

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 08:08 AM

I'm trying some OTC insomnia formulations. So far I tried one called strong sleep which is a combination of various anti-insomnia herbs, this one delayed the onset of sleep for hours and did not much aid my awakenings/dreams. I probably had not giving up on it after one day but I was anxious to try another.

Last night I took just Valerian root extract 200mg and I don't know if it's coincidence or not, the onset of my sleep was quite fast and I slept very well with less dreams/awakenings than usual and I woke up refreshed. If this effect repeats itself tonight this can't be coincidence (fingers crossed).
If it repeats itself then there's probably less GABA in my brain and I need 5ht5a agonists.

(I'll update tomorrow)

-edit- Afaik 5ht5a is the less understood serotonin receptor out there, which LSD, Zyprexa and Valerian are the only known agonists out there.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 09 March 2019 - 08:27 AM.






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