6 replies to this topic

[purerealm]

http://www.nationalg...ures/peru2.html

[~ prometheus ~]

i've had several experiences with ayahuasca, and i definitely i believe that it can lead to positive life changes. in fact, it helped me forgive a family member whom i hadn't spoken to for several years. the following day when i was sober i approached said person and made ammends with them.

however, i think its efficacy as an antidepressant is limited and i wonder how much it would have to do with the MAOI (harmaline alkaloids) present in the brew itself. i no longer associate a spiritual connection to my experiences, but they were spiritual at the time.

[jubai]

Would be nice if you would refer to them by their true name and nature, which is "psychedelics". Hallucinogenic properties are only a small part of their effect on the psyche, and simply refering to these substances with this name is very diminutive.

This beeing said, psychedelics are a tool, which, when properly used have saved the lives and minds of many. However they can be destructive too, if not in the right mood, too much negative emotions or "clinging" to one's ego, or normal perception of reality.

These kind of studies have been done before, some of them with extremely good results (just check out the conferences from the last LSD symposium).

However these substances are not user-friendly and easygoing like common MAOIs and SSRIs, in the sense that they do not "hide" or "regulate" the persone, on the opposite they let you dig very deep in your consciousness. When you cannot hide from yourself, results can be desastrous or glowing, depending on the reaction.

As a doctor I would greatly hesitate to prescribe these drugs to a user, unless followed by a very good therapist under controlled settings.

When you dig deep, you can find gold or dead bodies.

[mitkat]

Ayahuasca (or "pharmahuasca", composed of non-botanicals) is to be used episodically, at most.

MAYBE once in a while (i.e once in a lifetime experience), but there are many variables, guarenteed sickness, and then there's the matter of mixing all of the plants correctly in the right amounts...

Like jubai said, unless you have a very good therapist to direct you, or are in some sort of shamanic environment, it can be very polarizing emotionally and psychologically. I won't even bother to use the phrase "bad trip" to describe what could go wrong. Someone with any kind of emotional baggage could be seriously jived. On the other hand, it has glowing, amazing results also.

If one was interested in psychadelics as antidepressants for practical purposes, Salvia Divinorum comes to mind first and foremost.

When you dig deep, you can find gold or dead bodies.

[lol] That is so fitting [thumb]

[jubai]

Salvia? You like it hardcore, my friend

Salvia is such a weird beast, so short as a trip but so deep and complex. The afterglow is so calm and peaceful, and yet revealing.

No wonder it has earned its unique title of "divinatory psychedelic".

http://www.salvia-di...alvinorin-b.jpg

Now THAT is one complex molecule :D


For the topic at hand, are you refering to smoking it or oral consumption?

[mitkat]

Salvia? You like it hardcore, my friend

Salvia is such a weird beast, so short as a trip but so deep and complex. The afterglow is so calm and peaceful, and yet revealing.

No wonder it has earned its unique title of "divinatory psychedelic".

http://www.salvia-di...alvinorin-b.jpg

Now THAT is one complex molecule :D


For the topic at hand, are you refering to smoking it or oral consumption?

LOL, I've experimented with it a number of times, but now I just cultivate it. And yeah, the salvinorins are crazy complex, yet another way in which nature amazes us, a weird beast indeed

I am torn between the idea of smoking or the traditional "quid" consumption as for a proper method. I don't really advocate smoking in any form, but it could be a small price to pay. Smoking certainly lends itself to a more powerful, acute experience, but the quid is obviously more long-lasting...so it could depend on in which way you're depressed. But modes of depression I don't know anything about. [thumb]

To me, it's the after-effects, the comedown, that is just as powerful as the psychedelic episode - maybe even more important in a theraputic arena. It's that powerful pinnacle of clarity, I believe, that can be most helpful.

[t4exanadu]

I've always wondered whether or not the 2,4,5-trisubstituted amphetamines, such as DOM, DOB, etc., would make affective anti-depressants. Due to their very long half-lives, dosing could be reduced to once a day, and the dosages themselves would be quite small as fully-psychedelic doses are generally 10mg and under. These compounds have been studied in rats but were ruled-out as novel anti-depressants since rats given the said substances failed the forced-swim test and other tests. However, knowing as we do that rats are not humans, I think this class of compounds should be reconsidered as potentially useful class of anti-depressants for those who are resistant to more traditional anti-depressants (or those who cringe at the thought of taking an SSRI).