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BLIS K12 and M18

oral probiotics microbiome dental blis k12 m18

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#1 Leni

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 05:35 AM


Has anyone used the probiotic strains BLIS K12 and M18 to improve dental health, and any (anecdotal) experience to share? Did you use a specific brand to supplement these strains with specific results? (A pity that a lot of brands seem to contain sugar, doesn't really seem to fit the purpose of the probiotic).

 

Some info about BLIS K12: https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/27874935

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3516470/

 

Some info about M18:

https://www.research...ontrolled_trial

 

 


Edited by Lenie, 21 September 2017 - 05:45 AM.

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#2 sdxl

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:12 AM

I never have seen a product with these strains containing sugar.  Polyols are widely used in these supplements as sweetener.



#3 Leni

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 03:38 PM

I never have seen a product with these strains containing sugar.  Polyols are widely used in these supplements as sweetener.

 

You are right, sorry about that: it has been a while since I looked a bit more into these probiotic strains. I had forgotten the reason I ultimately didn't start using them was since the sources I found at that time had added Xylitol.  I was not completely sure about the effects of Xylitol on strains of the Lactobacillus Reuteri. 

(I do use Xylitol for dental/oral health, however: I don't use any oral probiotic currently).



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#4 Adaptogen

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:52 PM

I've dissolved a 2 billion cfu Blis K12 tablet in my mouth the past couple nights after brushing my teeth and have noticed much less / non-existent morning breath odor. Too soon to say with certainty that it was the result of the probiotic, and cnfounding variable: been consuming/swishing baihao yinzhen recently The antiplaque efficacy of white tea extract mouthrinse


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#5 Leni

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 11:03 PM

Interesting, thanks for sharing Adaptogen. The white tea mouthrinse looks interesting too - white tea is my favorite tea so that should come in handy.

 

Ideally you would temporarly drop the white tea mouth rinse to perceive if you would have any noticeable effect from using the Blis K12 as sole change in your daily dental regimen. Oh well, I should try the BLIS K12 myself too :-).


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#6 Heisok

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 01:56 AM

I have used a few different ones, but never stuck to them until recently.

 

I started with the Great Oral Health brand probably 6 months ago. By-the-way, since Xylitol has anti-bacterial properties, they recommend to not use any right around taking the probiotics. They also recommend waiting a while after brushing or mothwash as they can also be anti-bacterial. I chew on mine about 1/2 hour or so before bed, and keep them in my mouth for as long as possible without swallowing or drinking. Well over 10 minutes usually. I have read about some people putting one up near their teeth at bedtime to slowly dissolve as they sleep.

 

The brand has both K12 and M18 along with other strains which might have dental benefits. They do not specify the amount of K12 or M18 included. I currently take 1 tablet daily as maintenance.

 

The only thing which I will claim is that it makes a big difference in my breath in the morning, but that might be some other factor. I have no bleeding after flossing or noticeable inflamation. I will continue with the product, so I guess that says something.

 

https://www.greatora...eth-mint-flavor

 

 



#7 Leni

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 04:56 AM

I have used a few different ones, but never stuck to them until recently.

 

I started with the Great Oral Health brand probably 6 months ago. By-the-way, since Xylitol has anti-bacterial properties, they recommend to not use any right around taking the probiotics. They also recommend waiting a while after brushing or mothwash as they can also be anti-bacterial. I chew on mine about 1/2 hour or so before bed, and keep them in my mouth for as long as possible without swallowing or drinking. Well over 10 minutes usually. I have read about some people putting one up near their teeth at bedtime to slowly dissolve as they sleep.

 

The brand has both K12 and M18 along with other strains which might have dental benefits. They do not specify the amount of K12 or M18 included. I currently take 1 tablet daily as maintenance.

 

The only thing which I will claim is that it makes a big difference in my breath in the morning, but that might be some other factor. I have no bleeding after flossing or noticeable inflamation. I will continue with the product, so I guess that says something.

 

https://www.greatora...eth-mint-flavor

 

Thank you for sharing, Heisok: interesting. Indeed I had some reservations about using a probiotic with Xylitol in it for exactly the reason you mentioned.

It's always difficult to perceive any noticeable change when you use a supplement and certainly to pinpoint any possible cause-effect, but would you think your dental health improved once you started using these probiotic strains?

I don't have any issues with regard to heavy breath (I'd like to believe :-) ), neither swollen/irrirated/bleeding gums, but I tend to think an overall approach that stimulates a healthy oral flora versus solely using (aggressive) anti-bacterial products, may be more optimal. 

 

The product you mentioned seems interesting. It does contain isomalt, but alas, you can't have it all. Not sure if I could get it here in Europe though; will look out for it.

 

 

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#8 Heisok

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 06:35 PM

Dental health could be a tough thing to gauge except anecdotally, unless one sees a Dentist or Hygienist who notices the results. Some test for harmful oral bacteria, but I will guess not for free. There might be factors which might make results hard to judge, as paying enough attention to the mouth to take probiotics, could also create an increased care using brushing, inter tooth brushes and more regular flossing.

 

Not just morning breath has improved, but for me when flossing, I would occasionally hit a pocket which would release a smell which might have been bacterial build up, and it does not happen. What I will do is remember this thread, and if anything changes, I will report back.

 

 


Edited by Heisok, 23 September 2017 - 06:36 PM.

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#9 Leni

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

Very true of course that it is difficult to draw any conclusions based on your own perceptions. Still it is interesting to me to hear, since as mentioned: I really like the idea of using oral probiotics vs aggressive antibacterial products, and there is not a whole lot anecdotal info to be found besides some products reviews here and there. So thank you again for the info.

 

I am really going to see if I can get the same product over here (or I will look a bit further into BLIS K12 and M18 products available in Europe). Please do report back in the future yes, if you'd want to. If I start using the probiotic strains I will certainly do so too.

 

Thanks again!



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#10 Leni

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:08 AM

Any product with BLIS K12 + M18 I looked into still had either Isomalt or Xylitol added, however Xylitol may not disturb the balance of healthy microbes/kill bacteria in such an indiscriminate way it seems:https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3434645/

 

"Based on the findings of this study, xylitol consumption reduced S. mutans and S. sobrinus counts in saliva but appeared not to effect numbers of S. sanguinis and S. mitis in saliva. So, habitual consumption of xylitol reduces cariogenic streptococci levels without any effect on beneficial sterptococci for the oral cavity."

 

 



#11 Adaptogen

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:13 AM

Tea extracts, coffee, cacao, garlic, ginger, and probably most spices, flavanols, and polyphenols have significant modulatory effects on oral and intestinal bacteria. It seems likely that these would have significant negative effects on BLIS K12 .  This study had a colonization period of 3 days of 40 billion cfu per day, while avoiding onions, garlic, spirits, things that would impact oral bacteria, but still within 2 weeks the bacteria was barely measurable in the mouth, so long term colonization seems like a lost cause, forcing one to continuously take k12 if they want the benefits of it.

 

Combining inulin with S. Salivarius seems like a good route to take. having a bunch on hand, ill start doing this from now on. i'm not sure why these supplement makers aren't mixing prebiotics with their oral probiotics.
 


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#12 Leni

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:28 PM

Thanks for posting that study. Good find - albeit a bit disappointing that long term colonization with BLIS K12 appears to be unlikely.

 

The combination inulin + S Salivarius seems very interesting indeed. 

 

I do wonder how these oral probiotics could affect the gut microbiome. I just read an anecdotal review of someone stating they had a stool analysis for gut dysbiosis done after taking an oral probiotic with Streptococcus salivarius for a while. The analysis showed a significant S. Salivarius overgrowth. Obviously that is merely a review, but it does make me realize once again that we are far from understanding in what ways the oral microbiome (as well as oral microbiome dysbiosis) affects the human microbial flora.


Edited by Leni, 25 September 2017 - 08:31 PM.

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