84 replies to this topic

[FunkOdyssey]

I hereby formally suggest as a paying full member that Immortality Institute upgrade to a better web hosting service.

The website is very unreliable, and is often insufferably slow. There are free forums out there with infinitely better performance than this. With the resources we have ($$), we ought to have a fast and dependable web site. Pretty please?

[Lazarus Long]

As a Director I second the motion.

However rather than making just a generic suggestion I would like to ask do you have specific servers that we could investigate for a comparison?

I noticed we were down again for a little while and I am unsure if it is the server or something directly associated with our site. I should let you know we are looking into this and we are looking for options.

[jaydfox]

Actually, Canaca is not our current host, if I recall correctly. We've actually considered upgrading to Canaca, but there are logistics and pricing issues.

Given recent incidents--site down frequently, whether from DoS attacks or just poor hosting; spam attacks and the difficulty in the current software with tracking/blocking such attacks; etc.--we are currently considering our options in upgrading the forum software and/or our hosting arrangements. The emphasis has been primarily on upgrading the software, but our hosting arrangements apparently need to be revisited.

[jaydfox]

Hmm, Laz beat me to the punch.

[jaydfox]

The last post was at 9:06 AM EST, and we came back up at 11:27 AM EST, with intermittent availability in between.

[FunkOdyssey]

However rather than making just a generic suggestion I would like to ask do you have specific servers that we could investigate for a comparison?

No, I haven't done any research and haven't attempted to host my own site in a long time. I could look into it if you'd like me to.

[Live Forever]

Apparently there are a few hosting comparison places out there. A quick google search yielded:

HostCompare.com - the first result, looks to have a lot of information on different hosting places depending on what you are looking for

Hosting-Comparison.com Has charts comparing different hosts in different catagories, looks to be updated monthly (hasn't been updated for March yet, comparisons are still based on Feb. 2006)

More of an Editorial by OnlineBusiness.com - More of an editorial feel to it, with charts at the bottom


I am sure there are some other comparison services out there as well, these were just a few of the results from the first page from the search mentioned above.

One of the concerns might be how much space is needed? I don't have any idea how much there is now, or how much will be needed in the future (especially if people wanted to host audio/video/blogs etc. here in the future, depending on software/outreach/etc.)

[Mind]

I have suggested moving to Canaca for a long time now. They sponsor Imminst and this would be a good chance to give them something back. They seem like a professional service and thier prices are reasonable....in fact, we might be able to get a good deal.

So don't bash Canaca....it is not their fault.

Right now we are hosted by a service that used to be a commercial operation. They stopped advertising back in the late 90's I think. Now they just host a few websites out of their basement or something. We get a great price...but the service has been faltering lately.

[mitkat]

I have website hosted by Canaca...I went to them cause I assumed Imminst did!

[DJS]

I just edited out the Canaca reference -- hope noone takes issue with that.

[jaydfox]

We're not using a ton of space at the moment, just a gig or two, IIRC. However, we're somewhat pampered at the moment, as we have our own dedicated server (though we don't manage it). In fact, the load rarely even hits half of what the box should be able to handle, so there's really no excuse for the site to ever be slow.

I was looking at the web stats, and the site hit a peak traffic level about three times what it normally ever gets up too. That was on March 1st, when Lee Crost denied being LifeMirage. So when the site seems to be running slow, traffic is still far lighter than it was on march 1, and the site ran fine right up until it shut down for three hours.

It's my opinion, therefore, that the box we're hosted on is not the problem. I'm left to conclude that it's either the ISP's routers, or perhaps even their connection to the Internet backbone(s) they use. Still, regardless of what the problem is, a different host is needed.

However, I'm out shopping around, and it's very difficult to figure things out and compare apples with apples. I'm seeing lots of apples and oranges and bananas, and even a peanut butter sandwich here and there. As far as I can tell, Canaca's VPS solutions aren't terribly over-priced. Then again, I find random hosting sites that claim VPS solutions for about an eighth of what Canaca charges, or fully dedicated solutions for the same price Canaca offers VPS solutions. But the feature lists for the VPS solutions aren't even close: slow Celeron processors, 2 GB space, 75 GB transfer versus Canaca's faster AMD processors, 30 GB space (per user or shared among the lot?), and 600 GB transfer.

Edit: Ah, I figured out why the prices seemed so cheap: they weren't VPS solutions, they were just shared hosting. The cheapest VPS solutions are only about half what Canaca charges, for far less bandwidth. I think Canaca is still a good buy, at least for VPS. I have found cheaper fully dedicated solutions, though, if we decide to go that route.

Edited by jaydfox, 16 March 2006 - 07:00 PM.

[jaydfox]

Brief Update: It appears that the problem is with an upstream router, not with the hosting company. I had already suspected as much, but I wasn't sure how close that upstream router was to our host: it might have been the host's outgoing router, if it had multiple IP addresses.

Our host provider has a ticket in with the immediate upstream routing service, though if the problem is further upstream then they'll probably have to put a ticket in as well. Our host provider identified one route that works, and one that doesn't, so that information should help the router service provider figure out what's wrong and (hopefully) fix it. Of course, if you can read this, then your packets go through the route that's not affected. If you can't read this, well, then, this information doesn't help you...

Since the problem seems to be further upstream, we need to look at how to prevent this in the future. One obvious solution is to move to another host provider, since they would have different upstream routing services, and probably faster turnaround times on fixing problems.

However, another solution might simply be to automate some route checking scripts to monitor each route, and inform our host provider the next time this happens. Once it gets fixed this time, the procedure for fixing it next time should be much quicker. So while we are still going to shop around for another hosting service, there might not be as much pressure to make a switch as we're feeling right now. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Live Forever]

I hadn't been able to get to any of the imminst pages for a little over a day, but after talking to mrfesta on AIM, and him telling me that some people could see it, I decided to try switching on Tor, and since it routes my packets through other places (meant to make your IP anonymous) it seems that I can view the page while using it. I would agree with upgrading or doing whatever is needed though, cause I know several people that can't get to the site and believe (as I did until a little bit ago) that the site is down. Is it being worked on at least?

[jaydfox]

As some of you know, within an hour or so of learning that Lee Crost denied being LifeMirage, ImmInst went down for three hours. Several members of leadership, especially the Directors, assumed it was a DoS attack, though we didn't know how to check.

A few days later, after another big event in the LM case (I'll have to look it up), the site went down again for 2-3 hours. Again, a DoS attack was suspected.

On March 15th, at about 4 PM PST/7 PM EST, during or immediately after a phone call made by a member of leadership to a person I can't currently disclose, the site fell victim to a confirmed DoS attack (confirmed through the upstream routing service to our hosting service). No word yet on whether the two previous incidents were DoS attacks, though we intend to get an answer if one is available to be had.

Because of the DoS attack, the upstream routing service blocked one of two routes that reach our site, which effectively stopped the DoS attack but left half or more of the world unable to reach ImmInst. We've requested they unblock the route, but:
A) that takes time, and
B) there's no word yet on whether the DoS attack has stopped, or what will happen if another one is launched.

For legal reasons, I probably shouldn't actually make an allegation at this point. [sfty]

[Lazarus Long]

For legal reasons, I probably shouldn't actually make an allegation at this point.

A wise approach. Suspicion should not be confused with evidence. We need incontrovertable fact before taking this to higher authorities IMHO.

I think it is fair to share suspicions here but be very careful about making acusations everyone as this tends to confuse matters more when they are not yet supported by verified evidence more than mere coincidence.

[jaydfox]

I think it is fair to share suspicions here but be very careful about making acusations everyone as this tends to confuse matters more when they are not yet supported by verified evidence more than mere coincidence.

Yes, we can't publicly accuse anyone at this point. While coincidences do point to prime suspects, it is possible that a third party might have launched the attacks--carefully timed--to intensify ImmInst leadership's investigation into certain individuals. At this time, we're still waiting for our host's routing service to conduct their investigation into the DoS attack(s).

[opales]

Yes, we can't publicly accuse anyone at this point. While coincidences do point to prime suspects, it is possible that a third party might have launched the attacks--carefully timed--to intensify ImmInst leadership's investigation into certain individuals. At this time, we're still waiting for our host's routing service to conduct their investigation into the DoS attack(s).

This situation could remind me of how Al Capone was nailed: for all the horrible crimes he did, it was actually tax evasion that put him to the "hole"

[Live Forever]

IMO, This is not a situation like the LM one that can take over a month and a half of back and forth before something is done. This is a very, very serious situation guys! Over half the world can not access the site! The lack of many postings to the site lately can prove to you that many members simply can not see whether or not that ImmInst is up and assume that they have fallen off the face of the earth. Effectively LM (or whomever, I am not accusing here) has won! This needs to be remedied immediately! This will have grave consequenses as far as credibility, fund raising, etc etc. in the public's eye, as well as severely inconveniencing members. If moving to a new host is what is needed, then lets do it, and do it now! IMO We should not wait for a full investigation and all that before action is taken, ImmInst can not afford to be offline for months and months (even days and days as it is turning into). Let me stress this again, Most people out there don't know the situation and assume the Immortality Institute has shut down, and the longer it is shut down, the more they will assume they have shut down for good! An investigation of logs and other stuff can be done from evidence on hand, one good thing about the internet is logs are kept of nearly everything so evidence can be studied at a later time, but this problem needs to be fixed ASAP!! This isn't something that we can wait on!

[Live Forever]

Anyone know of any updates to our situation? Its been a little over 48 hours now that the site has been down for most people.

It is like a ghost town or something in here. One good thing about the site going down is that there won't be any problems with people posting stuff that might be in danger of lawsuits or if they do, that anyone will see the posts to be able to bring a lawsuit. (always looking for that silver lining)

[jaydfox]

We've been waiting for the upstream routing services to unblock our site, but they haven't. They keep saying they're unblocking the site, and we should be back up in a couple hours after the changes propogate, but as you say, it's been many times that long, with no change.

I'm still pricing web hosts. Once I find one, I need to get Mind the treasurer to approve the payment (actually, he'll probably have to do the sign-up if the money is required at sign-up). Tomorrow sometime I will shut down the web forum, then begin the process of gzipping and FTPing all the files to the new host, and hopefully getting the new site up and running. If it works, I'll transfer the domain name. If it doesn't work, I'll bring imminst.org back up while I try to figure out why the new site isn't working.

If I time it correctly, I should probably be able to copy all the files over to the new site first, then shut down the forum, back up and gzip the database, and just copy the database and fire it up. That should keep the [airquote] downtime [/airquote] to a minimum.

[Live Forever]

sweet! Thanks for the update!

[rjws]

Heya guys finally got on with the help of Mrfesta I was able to read by turning my browser to offline but couldnt post wierd huh. Anyway Ive got tor running and now I can post...


If you want a new webhost I can reccomend Existhosting.com They have some nice packages and are much cheaper that canaca. I checked canaca when I built my site but I needed streaming audio and video and didnt want any regulations for adult content even though I dont have any on my site:)

[Mind]

We are getting ready to move to a new host and for any of the members that can access this forum...please suggest a hosting service. It would be nice to have a hosting service where we can contact someone personally when troubles arise. Or even a hosting service that knows about life extension and might be supportive of the cause.

[Live Forever]

http://www.tophosts.com/
Quite a few different hosting options. (doesn't say if they are supportive of life extenstion though, [lol] )

[kevin]

http://www.tera-byte.com has been a good provider for me. They have 24 hour telephone service and I have found them to be very responsive when issues arise. I think a shared hosting scheme with MySQL and PHP ("product" of 4U, check http://web.tera-byte...ervices.shared) is something like 10$/month..

Kevin

[jaydfox]

Given our general issues with responsiveness in recent months, as well as the problem with getting shut down by a DoS--not because it overwhelmed our server, but because our upstream routing services shut us off to protect their other customers--I think a bigger solution is needed, something with guaranteed CPU resources, so that we can't exceed our limits and get shut down for violating terms and conditions (apparently a big problem with shared hosting if you get slashdotted or hit with a DoS attack).

We can get a minimal VPS for $45/mo, which should be much stronger than what we currently are running. My only concern is memory: I don't know how much RAM our current setup uses.

[Live Forever]

I am glad you are on top of all this, Jay. Nice work! [thumb]

[mrfesta]

I hadn't been able to get to any of the imminst pages for a little over a day, but after talking to mrfesta on AIM, and him telling me that some people could see it, I decided to try switching on Tor, and since it routes my packets through other places (meant to make your IP anonymous) it seems that I can view the page while using it. I would agree with upgrading or doing whatever is needed though, cause I know several people that can't get to the site and believe (as I did until a little bit ago) that the site is down. Is it being worked on at least?

Thanks liveforever22,

I can only access the site now with the Tor program you recommended ( http://tor.eff.org/d...c-win32.html.en ). Otherwise, the site is still unaccessable. Its very easy to figure out and use if anyone wants to share with others.

[opales]

I hadn't been able to get to any of the imminst pages for a little over a day, but after talking to mrfesta on AIM, and him telling me that some people could see it, I decided to try switching on Tor, and since it routes my packets through other places (meant to make your IP anonymous) it seems that I can view the page while using it. I would agree with upgrading or doing whatever is needed though, cause I know several people that can't get to the site and believe (as I did until a little bit ago) that the site is down. Is it being worked on at least?

Thanks liveforever22,

I can only access the site now with the Tor program you recommended ( http://tor.eff.org/d...c-win32.html.en ). Otherwise, the site is still unaccessable. Its very easy to figure out and use if anyone wants to share with others.

Should everyone be able to access site with that program? Would a notification to all members (through email) be warranted, about the whole situation and how to access site during this blackout?

[Live Forever]

It is a program that routes your packets through a bunch of intermediate places (it is meant for hiding your IP address and making you anonymous online, used by a bunch of people in China and stuff to hide them from the government). There is a nice little plugin for Firefox that lets you switch between using it and not which is fairly convenient (so you don't have to go into the settings and change everything every time you want to use it). It is slower than a person's regular connection for other sites, but it seems to be good for getting around the site down issues we are having here. It might be a good temporary fix for members that still want to access the message board, but can't get to it (that is why I am using it).