8 replies to this topic

[nooguyz]

Hi. A friend gave one 30mg of Vyvanse and one felt very focused, productive and most importantly - not depressed or anxious throughout the day.

 

Is there any decent and proven alternative to Vyvanse that one doesn't need a prescription for? 30mg is a very low dose - it comes in doses up to 70mg, and while perhaps one would prefer 40 or 50mg, 30mg worked wonders. One did in one day more than in literally months. Did all that tasks that were piling up due to depression and anxiety.

 

Snus (nicotine pouch that you put on your gums and keep it there, it's a Swedish thing) helps sometimes, although one needs higher and higher doses of nicotine to achieve the same effect and even then it's not compatible to this. One just feels at east and relaxed on snus, but on Vyvanse one stops feeling depressed, stressed out and anxious, and can just focus on tasks at hand and do them properly.

 

One adheres to European law for the status of legality and prescriptions.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Have you ever tried any ACTUAL medications aimed at treating Depression and Anxiety though? The logical thing is not to start with an ADHD-drug, when you have been diagnosed with two entirely different diseases...

 

If you are only depressed and have anxiety, then Amphetamine could send you literally into h*ll itself - it can cause BOTH depression and Anxiety, in particular.

The first dosage is often the most euphoric one, but after that...! There are many with severe anxiety-disorders whom will find that the drug will break their very mind...

 

 

UNless of course, your anxiety and depression is really secondary, caused by an underlying ADHD-diagnosis, which then causes such problems with your environment that you develop depression and anxiety as a result.

 

If that is the case, then you may get it prescribed legally by your local psychiatric Dr. I suggest you get yourself checked out for such a diagnosis and thoroughly evaluated - it could, after all, be the missing piece of the puzzle towards explaining why your anxiety and depression seemingly does not respond to regular treatments.

 

 

In the meantime, I suggest you contact your local psychiatric care unit and ask for a new prescription - Buproprion (wellbutrin, voxra), is the one substance easily available in Europe, legally, which has properties similar to Amphetamine.

You could also ask for Reboxetine (edronax, et c) an antidepressant with effects on Norepinephrine - it works in a similar manor to the ADHD-drug Atomoxetine (strattera), and is actually also currently under investigation as an ADHD-drug.

 

None of the drugs above are first-line agents for the treatment of anxiety though - and you should be aware that stimulating compounds can often worsen anxiety.

 

I could also suggest grey-area drugs for you, from the black market, but I see nothing in your writing which suggests that you have the knowledge and discipline to handle self-medication in a responsible manor, so I won't. I suggest that others don't do so either.

[nooguyz]

Have you ever tried any ACTUAL medications aimed at treating Depression and Anxiety though? The logical thing is not to start with an ADHD-drug, when you have been diagnosed with two entirely different diseases...

 

If you are only depressed and have anxiety, then Amphetamine could send you literally into h*ll itself - it can cause BOTH depression and Anxiety, in particular.

The first dosage is often the most euphoric one, but after that...! There are many with severe anxiety-disorders whom will find that the drug will break their very mind...

 

 

UNless of course, your anxiety and depression is really secondary, caused by an underlying ADHD-diagnosis, which then causes such problems with your environment that you develop depression and anxiety as a result.

 

If that is the case, then you may get it prescribed legally by your local psychiatric Dr. I suggest you get yourself checked out for such a diagnosis and thoroughly evaluated - it could, after all, be the missing piece of the puzzle towards explaining why your anxiety and depression seemingly does not respond to regular treatments.

 

 

In the meantime, I suggest you contact your local psychiatric care unit and ask for a new prescription - Buproprion (wellbutrin, voxra), is the one substance easily available in Europe, legally, which has properties similar to Amphetamine.

You could also ask for Reboxetine (edronax, et c) an antidepressant with effects on Norepinephrine - it works in a similar manor to the ADHD-drug Atomoxetine (strattera), and is actually also currently under investigation as an ADHD-drug.

 

None of the drugs above are first-line agents for the treatment of anxiety though - and you should be aware that stimulating compounds can often worsen anxiety.

 

I could also suggest grey-area drugs for you, from the black market, but I see nothing in your writing which suggests that you have the knowledge and discipline to handle self-medication in a responsible manor, so I won't. I suggest that others don't do so either.

Thank you for such a long and descriptive reply! I apologize if my answer is too long...

 

No, I have not. I have read too much about what it does to your biochemistry, nor am I willing to go to a doctor for a prescription for such - in my country if someone finds out that you're taking meds for depression or anxiety, you're labeled as a stupid and overly emotional person who is unable to deal with anything. In my country people also don't like anyone non-white or who doesn't speak Russian. Goes with the territory I guess. Though for antidepressants, if there is some without withdrawal symptoms, one that doesn't take away your emotions (bad ones, too), one that doesn't make you tired and doesn't give you electrical shocks, please let me know - I'd be absolutely open to taking it (or since I can't see the psychiatrist - at least I'd know that it exists and stop my prejudition against it - I'll google the ones you listed after I reply).

 

Well, I have been wondering if I have ADHD. I wrote a long paragraph answering the questions, but I answered "yes" or "yes!!!" to a lot of the questions here (https://www.additude...toms-checklist/) for inattentive and hyperactive ADHD. Impulsive - a couple, but it's probably due to some other disorder instead... So it is very possible that I do have ADHD (though again - can't go to the psych doctors here, which is why I am looking for non-prescription meds before I manage to move outta this country).

 

My anxiety and depression are mainly caused by me being constantly misunderstood by pretty much everyone I meet, and either not knowing what to say or saying something wrong, and talking too much or too little (or writing a superlong message like this one, haha). It is also exaggerated by being unable to get myself up and do the things that I need to do to have income, getting my own place, etc.. As for anxiety, I feel it as a response to these (and other) situations, I do not feel it constantly by any chance. I feel sad and hopeless most of the time, though. If I cease coffee for awhile, it can make me feel really good while in effect, too. But only in high doses (which isn't healthy). So it seems that my anxiety doesn't get worse, instead I get myself in fewer situations that cause it, and if I do feel it - I am able to reduce the intensity easier than while "sober." Alcohol also relaxes me a lot, but of course I don't much more productive, just a little since I relax.

 

Well, I do have the discipline. For a year I lived with a guy who smokes a lot of weed and I could take it if I wanted. I took only so much as I wanted to, and usually just in the evenings. ADHD pills - I had some for months before I used just one. Alcohol - I had it for months and took just a little in the evenings to relax and help me fall asleep and do some things. I don't lack self-control even in this state of mind. :-)

[CWF1986]

^

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong stinkor, but as far as discipline and self-control I don't think he's referring to any tendency to addiction.

 

I think what he means is that you need to be able to have the discipline to thoroughly research these kinds of issues to learn a lot for them.  You can get ideas from forums like these, but you can't get diagnosis because we aren't doctors and even if we were we couldn't diagnose you over a forum.  Your posts in this thread quite frankly suggest that you haven't done the appropriate research.  You need to learn a lot before you start trying to self-medicate.  Medication even under a doctor's care and supervisions carries risk.  When you are self medicating even with lots of knowledge, those risk are higher.  And self-medicating while largely ignorant of the intricacies of various disorders is even riskier if not downright dangerous.  You even need to know some basic whole body physiology to appropriately treat for psychiatric issues.  Especially cardiovascular and hormonal health.  

 

Symptoms like inattention, lack of motivation, and other 'ADHD' type symptoms are much more likely to be caused my depression and/or anxiety.  ADHD isn't diagnosed until other more likely causes are canceled out. 

 

I will make a very hesitant suggestion, but only because these are relatively 'safe' options.  What I like about my following suggestion for a small stack is that it can potentially help with depression, anxiety, and/or ADHD issues and has a low likelihood of adverse effects.

 

100mg caffeine (6-10oz of coffee) 

100-200mg theanine

750mg aniracetam

more likely than not, a choline source well help the aniracetam work but you may be one of the few who do better without one

 

take that twice a day 4-6 hours apart

[nooguyz]

^

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong stinkor, but as far as discipline and self-control I don't think he's referring to any tendency to addiction.

 

I think what he means is that you need to be able to have the discipline to thoroughly research these kinds of issues to learn a lot for them.  You can get ideas from forums like these, but you can't get diagnosis because we aren't doctors and even if we were we couldn't diagnose you over a forum.  Your posts in this thread quite frankly suggest that you haven't done the appropriate research.  You need to learn a lot before you start trying to self-medicate.  Medication even under a doctor's care and supervisions carries risk.  When you are self medicating even with lots of knowledge, those risk are higher.  And self-medicating while largely ignorant of the intricacies of various disorders is even riskier if not downright dangerous.  You even need to know some basic whole body physiology to appropriately treat for psychiatric issues.  Especially cardiovascular and hormonal health.  

 

Symptoms like inattention, lack of motivation, and other 'ADHD' type symptoms are much more likely to be caused my depression and/or anxiety.  ADHD isn't diagnosed until other more likely causes are canceled out. 

 

I will make a very hesitant suggestion, but only because these are relatively 'safe' options.  What I like about my following suggestion for a small stack is that it can potentially help with depression, anxiety, and/or ADHD issues and has a low likelihood of adverse effects.

 

100mg caffeine (6-10oz of coffee) 

100-200mg theanine

750mg aniracetam

more likely than not, a choline source well help the aniracetam work but you may be one of the few who do better without one

 

take that twice a day 4-6 hours apart

Ah! So I understand now, well, I do do a lot of research on everything. However I know my reasons for depression (or at least some of them, bigger ones, smaller ones - could be something within my brain mechanisms that I am not aware of yet, like ADHD - I've read a lot about it and I fit most of the symptoms except for impulsivity). I could name the reasons here, but as you may have gotten the sense of it - my post is going to be a short story already, haha. Though feel free to ask! :-)

 

I talked to a lot of people about my brain mechanisms and mental mechanisms in the past couple of years, sometimes even on a daily basis for a good part of the day. I have not done the research on how various substances affect one's brain - first I'd need to know what substance I need to research, which is why I'm here.

 

Speaking of that, I have done a lot of research about caffeine (and experienced it), though not supplements - coffee and tea. In my experience, I grow tolerance to coffee either the next day or the day after that, and that is with relatively low amounts of caffeine (teaspoon without a big pile on top, one or two cups of such coffee). The next day I feel down, depressed, sad, no energy, etc. until I grab a cup, then those "symptoms" just subside, and if I drink more the next day - I get fidgety and nervous, sometimes even anxious. If I drink a huge amount of strong coffee, then I feel something closer to Vyvanse, but I also feel the aforementioned negative effects. That said, I'd like to either mitigate the effects of caffeine (which as far as I know you cannot do to a full extend) or just not use it. But I loooove tea, so I don't know how I'll go about that yet. I will be doing more research on teas - I don't drink soda and do not use sugar or sweeteners (they're worse than sugar in some cases) and I dislike water, so... Tea. And I truly do love the taste of tea. Sometimes I just want a bit more substance (like natural fresh homemade juice without additives). Theanine is supposed to help with that but I am yet to try supplementing it. Perhaps it will help me manage caffeine in tea. My research on Aniracetam (or racetams in general) is about 2 years old, and that is because I remember thinking that it's rather dangerous to take it due to it potentially interacting with a lot of substances. Say if I meet some guy in the street who asks if I wanna join for a spliff or if I get invited to drink some whiskey by someone, or if I want to supplement Bacopa and similar supplements for other reasons. So Aniracetam - I definitely do not know enough about it.

 

I do know a lot about how the mechanisms in the body work, but not to a full extend as mentioned earlier.

 

Why do you say that I would do better without Choline though?

 

And thank you for the suggestions! :-) And please feel free to ask anything!

[CWF1986]

I didn't say that you're better off without a choline source.  I said that most likely, you are better with a choline source.  But some people don't do well when they add a choline source.  

[Mind_Paralysis]

^

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong stinkor, but as far as discipline and self-control I don't think he's referring to any tendency to addiction.

 

I think what he means is that you need to be able to have the discipline to thoroughly research these kinds of issues to learn a lot for them.  You can get ideas from forums like these, but you can't get diagnosis because we aren't doctors and even if we were we couldn't diagnose you over a forum.  Your posts in this thread quite frankly suggest that you haven't done the appropriate research.  You need to learn a lot before you start trying to self-medicate.  Medication even under a doctor's care and supervisions carries risk.  When you are self medicating even with lots of knowledge, those risk are higher.  And self-medicating while largely ignorant of the intricacies of various disorders is even riskier if not downright dangerous.  You even need to know some basic whole body physiology to appropriately treat for psychiatric issues.  Especially cardiovascular and hormonal health.  

 

Symptoms like inattention, lack of motivation, and other 'ADHD' type symptoms are much more likely to be caused my depression and/or anxiety.  ADHD isn't diagnosed until other more likely causes are canceled out. 

 

I will make a very hesitant suggestion, but only because these are relatively 'safe' options.  What I like about my following suggestion for a small stack is that it can potentially help with depression, anxiety, and/or ADHD issues and has a low likelihood of adverse effects.

 

100mg caffeine (6-10oz of coffee) 

100-200mg theanine

750mg aniracetam

more likely than not, a choline source well help the aniracetam work but you may be one of the few who do better without one

 

take that twice a day 4-6 hours apart

 

You are quite correct in your hypothesizing regarding what I meant - you said it a lot better than I did! = ) I was actually a bit needlessly salty in my last post.

 

I'm going to have to blame it on Reboxetine (I've been getting small bouts of irrational rage from it once I reached 4 mg... similar to what happened when I used Buproprion, just less dramatic) and electrolyte imbalance - the constipation followed by diarrhoea keeps leaving me utterly wiped out - like if I'm losing too much liquid and most importantly, minerals when I actually empty my bowels.

 

 

I didn't say that you're better off without a choline source.  I said that most likely, you are better with a choline source.  But some people don't do well when they add a choline source.  

 

Correct.

 

This is something important to mention - as choline-supplementation has become more widespread, new reports of problematic sensitivity and overdosing on choline have surfaced - some people whom are sensitive to Choline can actually end up causing themselves great harm if they supplement with choline - we have multiple threads on this very forum with people whom have natural choline-sensitivity, any added choline is going to cause trouble for them - you can actually apparently end up in the equivalent of Serotonin Syndrome - Choline Syndrome, if you are sensitive.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 29 December 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

To the OP:

I would like to be able to give some better advice, but my mind is currently fried. : O Reboxetine is messing with my sleep royally.

 

You need to find out more about yourself though, look into testing yourself for various issues that could account for your problems - there's stuff like Lyme's Disease (borrelia infection) that can cause depression and anxiety. Don't go using drugs before you know more about yourself, in particular.

If it's possible to get blood-tests done in your location, then do so.

[nooguyz]

I didn't say that you're better off without a choline source.  I said that most likely, you are better with a choline source.  But some people don't do well when they add a choline source.  

Well, I was wondering why you were thinking that I most likely would be better without one, I just didn't quote you precisely. But the other user answered my question now. :-) How do you find out if you have such sensitivies, though?

To the OP:

I would like to be able to give some better advice, but my mind is currently fried. : O Reboxetine is messing with my sleep royally.

 

You need to find out more about yourself though, look into testing yourself for various issues that could account for your problems - there's stuff like Lyme's Disease (borrelia infection) that can cause depression and anxiety. Don't go using drugs before you know more about yourself, in particular.

If it's possible to get blood-tests done in your location, then do so.

That is also possible, surely. However I have been feeling depression for more than a decade now.

 

It is possible, however that would cost me a few hundred euros for just the main things, and I cannot afford that.