17 replies to this topic

[anarke848]

I'm 18, 150 lbs, and healthy. I'd like any advice anyone can offer on this stack. My main goal is to improve cognition related abilities. I just started this stack, I'm starting all at once because doing 1 drug a week when I plan to do this many doesn't make sense to me since after a week I'm going to have to adjust it for another week and 1 week can easily turn into 2-3 weeks.

Huperzine A 100 mcg 2xday
Vinpocetine 20 mg
Piracetam 1.7 mg 1x morning then .8 mg 1x night
Aniracetam 500 mg 2xday
Pyritinol 400 mg 1xday
Picamilon 100 mg 2xday
Alpha GPC 600 mg 2xday
ALCAR 500 mg 2xday
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 150 mg 2xday
L-Glutamine 5 g, every day or two
Multivitamin with B-complex
Glucosamine 1.5 g 1xday

Edited by anarke848, 28 March 2006 - 09:49 PM.

[orangish]

Can't really vouch/not vouch for the others, but I'd definitely stay away from glutamine. Its an excitocitoxin (google it, there's ample info), and I'd research it further before deciding whether its worth the potential benefits. My knowledge, and do be wary that it is cursory at the moment, is that excitoxins are so destructive because they are not held in check by any sort of inhibiting mechanism.

[ajnast4r]

you should NOT be taking huperzine at your age, & thats way too much alphaGPC


you are taking WAY too much crap for a healthy 18 year old.

[anarke848]

ok so if i cut alpha gpc in half would that be ok? 300 x2 or 600 x1? what do u think i should cut out if im taking too much? huperzine seems to be one of the best ones for what im looking for...

[mitkat]

Huperzine is very potent stuff, and should not be used by a young person at all, imo. Picamilon is really only for specific problems, so don't throw it in unless you have some anxiety problems, although there are other uses as well. Glutamine I have heard some bad things about, but don't know much. Glucosamine - do you have joint problems?

You should really try to take it one at a time...it seems tempting to try them all at once, but it's important for you to do not introduce that much to your brain at once - you may recieve unpleasant effects.

What multi are you going to take?

[anarke848]

i read the picamilon article on this site in nootropic research, it said it has memory, motor+speech, sleep, and vision benefits so i thought id give it a try. I don't have any anxiety at all but I do have a very slight speech problem sometimes.

I've been using glucosamine since I was 16 because it helps in working out and I used to do brazilian jiujitsu which works your joints a lot and it made my joints ridiculously stronger, plus I've broken a lot of bones so I thought it might offset potential arthritis in the future, anyways its a great drug.

And I read huperzine is very safe, is it really a big problem to take it right now?

As far as a multi I'm just using a regular store multi, one-a-day, is this not good enough?

Also, a while ago before I found this site I ran on some nootropics for a few months which I started all at once and actually included more individual drugs than this list, and I didn't have any noticeable problems.

[FunkOdyssey]

Yeah, he's right, it doesn't work that way. Also, I bet at least one out of two substances you try will have no discernable effect. If a month's supply of the average nootropic is around $20 for the sake of example... how much are you willing to throw away on drugs that are doing absolutely nothing? You'll have no idea what nootropic is doing what if you begin them all at once.

[ajnast4r]

when you read research... be sure to note most of the studies are on diseased elderly people... not healthy young people.

how are your sleep patterns? sleep has a huge effect on cognative function, especially at 18.

http://news.google.c...1801.html&hl=en

[anarke848]

I sleep a lot, but im a college student so it ranges anywhere from 0-11 hours of sleep a day, but if I sleep less than 7-8 hours any day my body always makes me make up for it later in the week.

[REGIMEN]

huperzine, vinpocetine, AND picamilon? You're using @GPC so cut the huperzine; unless you eat 1-2 eggs a day where you could foreseeably use huperzine instead with no @GPC. Cut the picamilon and see how vinpo works for you.

Try using 200-300mg of pyritinol at a time; you may get the same effects...save some money. (if pre-capped, well, unscrew the cap and pour it in your water). Quit coffee while you're at it with this stuff.

That's also a little more than usual for daily aniracetam usage. You can get enough effect from about 350mg 2x/daily. (basically, whatever you can stuff into one 00-size cap is ~ to 350mg)

Same goes for @GPC. Try 150-300mg 2x/daily.

I would go in this order for adding to your regimen with about 2 weeks experience with each before moving on to the next:
1)MultiV (look around in the Health forums for a good 1or2-a-day)
2)Vinpo
3)Alpha
4)Pira-
5)Anira-
6)Pyritinol

[Drink plenty of water.]
[Eat properly as your multi alone cannot hold you up.]
[DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL or smoke with any of the following in your system(4-6hrs after taking): picamilon, vinpocetine, huperzine, pyritinol, ALCAR]
[Consider taking GLA or FishOil with your Aniracetam.]

[anarke848]

huperzine, vinpocetine, AND picamilon? You're using @GPC so cut the huperzine; unless you eat 1-2 eggs a day where you could foreseeably use huperzine instead with no @GPC. Cut the picamilon and see how vinpo works for you.

-but doesnt huperzine have a lot more positive effects than just gpc?
-also what is gla short for


anyways thanks for the advice, great post

[ajnast4r]

you are tooooo younggg for huperrrrzinneeeee

[FunkOdyssey]

Well, huperzine has been shown to be effective in younger children in at least one trial:

Zhongguo Yao Li Xue Bao. 1999 Jul;20(7):601-3.  Related Articles, Links

    Huperzine-A capsules enhance memory and learning performance in 34 pairs of matched adolescent students.

    Sun QQ, Xu SS, Pan JL, Guo HM, Cao WQ.

    Xiaoshan Mental Hospital, Zhejiang, China.

    AIM: To study the efficacy of huperzine-A capsules (Hup) on memory and learning performance of adolescent students. METHODS: Using double-blind and matched pair method, 34 pairs of junior middle school students complaining of memory inadequacy were divided into two groups by normal psychological health inventory (PHI), similar memory quotient (MQ), same sex and class. The Hup group was administrated orally 2 capsules of Hup (each contains Hup 50 micrograms) b.i.d., and the placebo group was given 2 capsules of placebo (starch and lactose inside) b.i.d. for 4 wk. RESULTS: At the end of trial, the Hup group's MQ (115 +/- 6) was more than that of the placebo group (104 +/- 9, P < 0.01), and the scores of Chinese language lesson in the Hup group were elevated markedly too. CONCLUSION: The Hup capsules enhance the memory and learning performance of adolescent students.

    Publication Types:

        * Clinical Trial
        * Randomized Controlled Trial


    PMID: 10678121 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

However, there are no long-term safety studies, and something just "feels" dangerous about long-term AChE inhibition at a young age. Proceed at your own risk (I wouldn't recommend it).

[anarke848]

how about if i cycle huperzine?

[gcurrie]

Huperzine A 100 mcg 2xday
Vinpocetine 20 mg
Piracetam 1.7 mg 1x morning then .8 mg 1x night
Aniracetam 500 mg 2xday
Pyritinol 400 mg 1xday
Picamilon 100 mg 2xday
Alpha GPC 600 mg 2xday
ALCAR 500 mg 2xday
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 150 mg 2xday
L-Glutamine 5 g, every day or two
Multivitamin with B-complex
Glucosamine 1.5 g 1xday

Huperzine - too much IMO. I'm 48, and I take 100 mcg total per day.
Vinpocetine appears to be remarkably safe in all the research I've seen, so that's OK.
Why take two racetams? Unless you can tell the difference between them (many cannot), you are just throwing money away - piracetam is FAR cheaper and more thoroughly researched.
Pyritinol - if you have a specific reason for this , OK - but it's not a general-purpose nootropic.
Picamilon - drop it and stick with vinpocetine.
Alpha GPC looks way high - cut it in half.

BUT...

You are doing yourself a disservice in two ways:

1) You will not know which of these dozen substances have any effect on you. As funk said - you may be wasting money on supps that have no (or negative) effects.

2) The dose range for some of these appears to be an inverted U. Meaning that at some point, the good effect may reverse. Additionally, some of these may combine in unforeseen ways. And your neurochemistry is somewhat unique so that MY dose may not be YOUR dose.

This is why so many here (and elsewhere) counsel people like you to take it slow, one at a time. When you find the right dosages and combination, it will likely be worth the time spent.

[Shepard]

If you are following the typical college student diet: ramen, pizza, Natty, and a little grass for flava', your biggest cognition enhancements are going to come from changing your diet. But, assuming both that and your exercise program are in shape, I'd suggest the following:

1. Good multivitamin/mineral/etc. (You'll see Ortho-Core pimped a lot here.)
2. EFAs (Depends on your diet what you should supplement, but fish/flax is kind of a given.)
3. There are plenty of other supplements that I would put ahead of nootropics.
4. Vinpocetine
5. Gingko Biloba
6. Piracetam/Choline donor/Pyritinol/etc.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

Edited by shepard, 30 March 2006 - 08:04 AM.

[anarke848]

i must say i like ur style shepard, but i do try to keep my diet in check and grass was quit recently so im straight, cant say i dont still like the natty tho =P