LONGECITY

I have tried most of the nootropics but find modafinil far more superior to anything else. The increased mental energy means you are more willing to learn new things and engage in activities. Don't understand why more people dont use it. Has anyone had bad effects long term because looking at clinical trials and performance v side effects this seems to be the best drug by a long way. Also am I the only one getting excited about ampakines? There really should be more discussions on these two drugs, please express any views relating to either of them.
Thanks

I agree. I think the ampakine technology is far superior to modafinil, however. CX717 has shown remarkable results in the phase 1 trials. It seems, however, that the high impact ampakines will yield the most effective results. There is also a compound being developed by inflazyme known as IPL455,903. This drug has shown to work on the CREB pathway. There are many other drugs being developed that work through different pathways and could therefore be useful for different needs. I think that these drugs are not discussed becuase they are years from reaching the general public.

Modafinil is not a nootropic, it's a stimulant.

the release of ampakines will be a wet dream coming true. but as benson said, they won't be available for a little while yet. i wonder if there's anywhere you can score bootleg ampakines?

regarding modafinil, i'm a big fan of it, but i don't like long-term use of it. i only use it to give me energy when i exercise. i remember when i first started using it, i'd have this amazing euphoric rush for about 1-2 hours... now, nothing, no matter how long a break i have. anyone had the same experiences? over time, i found it ruined my verbal abilities... i'd have a tip-of-the-tongue effect, i couldn't adequately express what i was thinking. even for simple words it'd take me 30 secs or so before i knew what it was i wanted to say. this effect only occurs with modafinil, and quickly subsides thereafter. long term use also fucks up my sleep patterns majorly.

but i agree, when i first started taking it, the effects it had on my energy and motivation were amazing. is it a nootropic? only if caffeine is, and that's a matter of contention.

Has anyone thought of the possiblity of tinkering with existing nootropics to reproduce the effects on new drugs such as Ampakines? The company that makes memoprove seems to be going in this direction. If there was enough fudning and adequate research done, I would think that one could produce an OTC substance that would be just as effective as the new drugs comming to the market. This would have huge moneymaking potential. Many of these new drugs are going to be hard to get without a perscription.

Question For Modafinil users?

How often do you take it? Is taking it with caffeine dangerous?

Does it give you a bad 'low' when you are not on it?


RodentMan

Today I took one 200mg modafinil tablet, felt slight alertnes but not as i expected, even less than cup of coffe. 4 hours later i took 2 more tablets and felt increase in alertnes, heart beat etc but not near single dose of 300mg modafinil powder. anyway 1 hour after taking these extra 2 tabs i had major impairment of communication. i couldn't put 2 good sentences, i couldn't reply to emails....i didn't feel dumb or so, i felt "normal" but my communication with outside world was messed up
usually i'm very talkative on modafinil and it seems that my communications skills are even improved, but this "lock" also happened once before

if this post sounds funny it's because i'm still feeling it

Sounds like modafinil is a dumb drug, not a smart drug.

some studies have shown that the cognitive enhancing effects of modafinil are no greater than those obtained from caffeine.
one thing i like about modafinil is i have no compulsion to take it. although i take it frequently, i've gone weeks without touching it and have not even thought to myself "boy do i wish i had some"
i usually mix with coffee. i know i shouldn't but i love the jittery rush. after i do exercise the alertness remains but the anxiety is gone (probably acting in concert with the endorphins).

gnp990, how many people have implicated their modafinil use in reduced verbal ability? i only ask because i did a search a while back and could only find posts by me.

one thing is good about modafinil. it will help you get boring work done. yesterday i did some boring manual work while on modafinil easily, and i was delaying it for a long time before...

When I first started taking nootropics, the racetams in particular I thought my life had been change by them, I felt that I had become a new, better more intelligent person, I would engage myself in as many thing as possible and with these added abilities had the confidence to do anything. Sadly this feeling only lasted about four months before I began to doubt them. With Life Mirrage posting such positive reports I feel I may have been subjected to a placebo effect. True I had added confidence and therefore applied myself more but now think that this was only brought about by the belief that I had changed into a superior person. After this honeymoon period ended, despite continuing my nootropic regime I have felt lower than any other period in my life .Have never been depressed before but over the last four months have been very down and doubted myself constantly. My exam results this year have been no better than the last. I now believe that the nootropic sensations I had are due to me reading to many positive reports on this website and deluding myself that these actually work. LM always claimed that after a period of time you would no longer notice your added intelligence because you would be used to it, however I believe this is complete ballshit! Is there really any one on this forum that have used the drugs longer than 8 months (unsponsored by a drugs company) who still believe in these drugs, even Da sense is now only taking only deprenyl.
I have been taking modafinil for only 10 days but have found the effects astonishing compared to other nootropics. The increased awakness means you’re more in the mood to do things and exert yourself to your full potential. It seems that you will only learn something if you push yourself to do it and while on this stuff your boundaries seem endless. I find that I am picking up on things which i would normally miss, e.g. when I am watching a film just before bed I am concentrating on what is being said and my recall the next morning from it is excellent. On a normal occasion I would be feeling sleepy and would take in little of what is being said. When you have felt the high that i did to begin with and then it is no longer there then naturally you want it back. I have studied pharmacy at university for three years now and have spent a considerable amount of time looking at clinical trial regarding these drugs and can only see evidence backing modafinil and ampakines. I am slightly worried that the effects I am feeling are due to a placebo effect again but would rather take something that has undergone the vigorous trials that it takes to get a drug onto the NHS market than go by peoples subjected experiences. I have only heard about these diminished verbal abilities from people on this site, and although worried about them am going to give this drug a go. If there is anyone that has taken modafinil for an extended period of time please share your experiences as I am scared about its long term effects.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom but I do believe that for people interested in improving their intellect hope is on the horizon and it will come from ampakines. Type it into google and you will see what I mean. Cortex have nearly completed phase two trials and the results have only been positive.

Hello Paul


(Thanks for all the feedback from everyone)


I have been going through the nootropics 1 by 1 and have found nothing with any of them. Except a nice relaxed feeling with ALCAR/R-ALA which I use to calm down, and sometimes sleep. I do tend to be less susceptible to placebo effects than most people though.


Deprenyl might give a slight boost, but that might only be because it breaks down to amphetamine and methamphetamine.


By far, the only drug that works for me, and I feal confident with is Caffiene. It truly changed my life. I do remember, one time I took 400 mg of vivarin (twice what I normally take, equal to 4 cups of coffe), and it scrambled my brain a bit. I was very awake, but I did horrible on my final. I could barely focus enough to write my name down.


The Holy Grail, for most of us, will be the CX717 ampakine. It allows the brain to work, as if it is awake, even when the body is tired, and it doesn’t behave like a stimulant.


By the way, taking too much caffeine or other stimulants while working out can increase the possibility of getting a heart attack exponentially, especially as you get older.

Not only that, if you have a mutation in the CYP1A2 gene (30% of Caucasians have this), drinking two to three cups of coffee daily causes a 36 percent increased risk of a first heart attack and four or more cups of coffee had a 64 percent higher risk. (Those are high numbers).

However, for most people, coffee is quite healthy, and possibly beneficial as an anti-oxidant.

paul, depression is a separate condition by itself and needs to be dealt with directly. Most noots don't help much with depression. I don't know of any that cause depression either, for that matter. Have you tried st john's wort? It gives energy and lifts the mood. Many people get those results from sam-e as well.

When I first started taking nootropics, the racetams in particular I thought my life had been change by them, I felt that I had become a new, better more intelligent person, I would engage myself in as many thing as possible and with these added abilities had the confidence to do anything. Sadly this feeling only lasted about four months before I began to doubt them.

With Life Mirrage posting such positive reports I feel I may have been subjected to a placebo effect. True I had added confidence and therefore applied myself more but now think that this was only brought about by the belief that I had changed into a superior person. After this honeymoon period ended, despite continuing my nootropic regime I have felt lower than any other period in my life .Have never been depressed before but over the last four months have been very down and doubted myself constantly. My exam results this year have been no better than the last. I now believe that the nootropic sensations I had are due to me reading to many positive reports on this website and deluding myself that these actually work. LM always claimed that after a period of time you would no longer notice your added intelligence because you would be used to it, however I believe this is complete ballshit! Is there really any one on this forum that have used the drugs longer than 8 months (unsponsored by a drugs company) who still believe in these drugs, even Da sense is now only taking only deprenyl.
I have been taking modafinil for only 10 days but have found the effects astonishing compared to other nootropics. The increased awakness means you’re more in the mood to do things and exert yourself to your full potential.  It seems that you will only learn something if you push yourself to do it and while on this stuff your boundaries seem endless. I find that I am picking up on things which i would normally miss, e.g. when I am watching a film just before bed I am concentrating on what is being said and my recall the next morning from it is excellent. On a normal occasion I would be feeling sleepy and would take in little of what is being said. When you have felt the high that i did to begin with and then it is no longer there then naturally you want it back. I have studied pharmacy at university for three years now and have spent a considerable amount of time looking at clinical trial regarding these drugs and can only see evidence backing modafinil and ampakines. I am slightly worried that the effects I am feeling are due to a placebo effect again but would rather take something that has undergone the vigorous trials that it takes to get a drug onto the NHS market than go by peoples subjected experiences. I have only heard about these diminished verbal abilities from people on this site, and although worried about them am going to give this drug a go. If there is anyone that has taken modafinil for an extended period of time please share your experiences as I am scared about its long term effects.
Sorry to be all doom and gloom but I do believe that for people interested in improving their intellect hope is on the horizon and it will come from ampakines. Type it into google and you will see what I mean. Cortex have nearly completed phase two trials and the results have only been positive.

As a pharmacy student Paul, I imagine you are reasonably well trained. Check this topic out: Methodology in medical research, learn how to better evaluate results

It is highly likely that the racetams effects are placebo; and I am confident that it isn't that case for modafinil.

Why? Well, lack of conclusive evidence thereof to prove the effects in healthy individuals using modern neuropsychological test batteries.

drugs using modern, validated neuropsychological test batteries. The studies referred to on the Net by the smart drug advocates are mostly published in non peer-reviewed, obscure journals and in proceedings of congresses. The facts presented in those papers are over-interpreted by the advocates of smart drugs. Furthermore facts to support their use in man have been extrapolated from animal pharmacology without too much knowledge of the problems of many of the animal models used.

Let me briefly update you on what are considered "modern, validated neuropsychological test batteries:"

The famed CANTAB (Cambridge Neuropsychological Test Automated Battery) battery: learn more about these tests here:

CANTAB tests
The nineteen CANTAB tests are grouped below in broad functional categories.

o CANTAB tests are sensitive to cognitive changes caused by a wide range of CNS disorders and medication effects, and can detect changes that most other tests will simply miss.
o Where error scores are a key outcome measure, CANTAB tests are graded in difficulty to avoid ceiling effects.
o Where accurate measurement of latency is important, responses are made via a press pad. Elsewhere, engaging touch-screen technology maximises compliance.
o The majority of CANTAB tests are independent of language and culture.

CANTAB tests
The nineteen CANTAB tests are grouped below in broad functional categories.

There are two tests of induction, four for visual memory, four for executive function, five for attention, two for semantic/verbal memory, and finally; two for emotional decision making.

All of these "modern, validated neuropsychological test batteries" are computerized and are independent of language and culture.

More info here.

The (Cambridge Neuropsychological Test Automated Battery) CANTAB battery is only one of the set of tests used in the above article that subjects whom were given modafinil performed significantly better than placebo; the other tests used were:

1. Visual analogue scales
Bond A, Lader M (1974) The use of analogue scales in rating subjective feelings. Br J Med Psychol 47:211-218

2. Digit span: Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale

3. Decision making (gamble) task: Rahman S, Sahakian BJ, Cardinal RN, Rogers RD, Robbins TW (2001) Decision making and neuropsychiatry. Trends Cogn Sci 5:271-277

4. Stop-signal (stop) task:

a) This classic paradigm: Logan GD (1994) On the ability to inhibit thought and action. In: Dagenbach D, Carr TH (eds) Inhibitory processes in attention, memory and language. Academic Press, San Diego, pp 189-239

I believe of the ImmInst topics this topic best addresses the pharmacological effects of modafinil...

On the other hand, this topic either contains or refers to the best debates here about Piracetam.

However, keep the following in mind: about 50% of all reserarch findings are false:

This full text is available here free

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
John P. A. Ioannidis

Summary
There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research.

John P. A. Ioannidis is in the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine, Ioannina, Greece, and Institute for Clinical Research and Health Policy Studies, Department of Medicine, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America. E-mail: jioannid@cc.uoi.gr

Competing Interests: The author has declared that no competing interests exist.

Published: August 30, 2005

DOI: 10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

Copyright: © 2005 John P. A. Ioannidis. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Abbreviation: PPV, positive predictive value

Citation: Ioannidis JPA (2005) Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. PLoS Med 2(8): e124

I don't know if the ampakines or modafinil are all that. DARPA doesn't seem to have found a lot of joy with CX717, and the cognitive enhancement of Modafinil seems to be mixed and relatively unimpressive. Methylphenidate, amphetamine, and phenmetrazine work so well already as cognitive enhancers, too.

isnt aniracetam an ampakines?

Hey Christian,

I don't think aniracetam is an ampakine -- as far as I know aniracetam is a piracetam derivative. They might be structurally related somehow though. It looks like something interesting to look into.

Ampakines are commonly stated to be derivative of Aniracetam but I can't find a reliable source to confirm this.

Damn, I want those ampakines so badly!