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I don't need a multivitamin! (do I even need a b-complex?)


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10 replies to this topic

#1 health_nutty

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:00 AM


I always thought I needed a multi to cover my bases. After doing the cron-o-meter I see that is not the case.
I'm going to take vitamin D, K2, and extra magnesium. I take Benfotiamine and P5P as well (anti-glycation).

Do I even need a b-complex? After years of thinking I need to take need a B50 sized b-vitamin intake, I'm taking a step back.
Why? What am I trying to accomplish? I don't have any research that shows a shotgun B50 does anything while high folic acid and B6 have
been shown to be negative.

Any thoughts?

Edited by health_nutty, 14 June 2010 - 04:54 AM.


#2 mike250

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:24 AM

i too seem to be in the same boat. it seems like i get a lot of b vitamins (got more than the allowed maximum for B12 today but lack sufficient folate and Vitamin A). I'm also supplementing with D and K2 and will also add magnesium (allergy to nuts)

are you getting 100% of everything else (other minerals/vitamins)

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#3 rwac

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:30 AM

I doubt you really need it. It's nicer to tweak individual B's anyway.

Methyl-Cobalamin might be a nice addition though.

#4 health_nutty

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:44 AM

I'm even getting plenty of magnesium, but it makes me more calm if I take more.

Report generated by CRON-o-Meter v0.9.7
Nutrition Summary for June 13, 2010
General (74%)
Energy
1755.4
kcal
61%
Protein
108.1
g
193%
Carbs
127.2
g
98%
Fiber
23.4
g
62%
Fat
96.6
g
149%
Water
777.5
g
21%
Vitamins (90%)
Vitamin A
36862.3
IU
1229%
Folate
298.0
µg
74%
B1 (Thiamine)
1.3
mg
110%
B2 (Riboflavin)
2.0
mg
152%
B3 (Niacin)
26.1
mg
163%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)
6.1
mg
122%
B6 (Pyridoxine)
2.2
mg
167%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin)
2.7
µg
114%
Vitamin C
324.5
mg
361%
Vitamin D
13.5
IU
7%
Vitamin E
15.2
mg
102%
Vitamin K
1783.2
µg
1486%
Minerals (95%)
Calcium
1478.5
mg
148%
Copper
1.8
mg
197%
Iron
11.3
mg
142%
Magnesium
411.8
mg
98%
Manganese
5.4
mg
233%
Phosphorus
1744.8
mg
249%
Potassium
3981.4
mg
85%
Selenium
57.7
µg
105%
Sodium
1078.3
mg
72%
Zinc
13.0
mg
118%
Lipids (79%)
Saturated
20.1
g
101%
Omega-3
2.3
g
145%
Omega-6
10.3
g
61%
Cholesterol
171.5
mg
57%

#5 mike250

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 06:20 AM

you must be eating a lot of nuts

#6 kismet

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:19 PM

I always thought I needed a multi to cover my bases. After doing the cron-o-meter I see that is not the case.
You're right. The data does not lie, as they say.
I'm going to take vitamin D, K2, and extra magnesium. I take Benfotiamine and P5P as well (anti-glycation). Which as you might know I would suggest to avoid due to the potential risk of cancer promotion and neurologic damage, respectively

Methyl-b12 may be worth researching as other said. But hopefully it won't go the way of P5P and benfo. as new evidence emerges...

selenium (no clue on that one but the sweet spot may be slightly higher) and phosphate (as low as possible) tweaking might be another idea.

Edited by kismet, 14 June 2010 - 03:20 PM.


#7 health_nutty

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:40 PM

I always thought I needed a multi to cover my bases. After doing the cron-o-meter I see that is not the case.
You're right. The data does not lie, as they say.
I'm going to take vitamin D, K2, and extra magnesium. I take Benfotiamine and P5P as well (anti-glycation). Which as you might know I would suggest to avoid due to the potential risk of cancer promotion and neurologic damage, respectively

Methyl-b12 may be worth researching as other said. But hopefully it won't go the way of P5P and benfo. as new evidence emerges...

selenium (no clue on that one but the sweet spot may be slightly higher) and phosphate (as low as possible) tweaking might be another idea.


The neuropathy of B6 was in extremely high doses. Is there any reason to think 50-100mg of P5P will cause neuropathy?

#8 Lufega

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:07 PM

I never really put much stock into B-complex formulas and multivitamins. I tried a coenzymated form a couple of years ago which did nothing for me so this only added to my disbelief.

Recently though, I've been experiencing a lot of fatigue (due to metronidazole toxicity). I went ahead and added Jarrow B-right and it was made a world of a difference for me.

I was coming home each day around noon and crashing into the early night. Since using the B-complex, my energy levels went up almost instantaneously. Now, I'm pretty much able to stay awake and functioning most of the day.

From there on, I became a firm believer and there is something about that specific brand that makes it work better than another I tried (coutry life coenzyme)

#9 kismet

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:59 PM

The neuropathy of B6 was in extremely high doses. Is there any reason to think 50-100mg of P5P will cause neuropathy?

While they may have something in common, I would not confuse the potential of CNS neurotoxicity with the risk of peripherial neuropathy (esp. documented at high doses). Another problem is that 50-100mg is a very low dose therapeutically speaking and there's no evidence that it would do anything against glycation (AFAIK?) Although, I have not really looked into the issue...

(see e.g. http://www.imminst.o...o...38112&st=0)

Edited by kismet, 14 June 2010 - 05:59 PM.


#10 krillin

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 06:41 AM

While they may have something in common, I would not confuse the potential of CNS neurotoxicity with the risk of peripherial neuropathy (esp. documented at high doses). Another problem is that 50-100mg is a very low dose therapeutically speaking and there's no evidence that it would do anything against glycation (AFAIK?) Although, I have not really looked into the issue...

The CNS toxicity is to all appearances from unconverted pyridoxine acting as a B6 antagonist. The full text says that

These changes were more typical for the experimental group receiving excess vitamin B6 intake for a long period (20 days) and, paradoxically, they are reminiscent of those resulting from vitamin B6 deficiency in rats [27].

100 mg/day pyridoxamine worked as well as 500 mg/day here. It's still available from overseas, so I don't see a reason to settle for PLP. 100 mg/day PM should convert to PLP well (unlike the 600 mg/kg/day that was used to establish the superiority of PLP over PM), so you should get the benefits of both of their mechanisms. I take it with my nuts and meat on the off chance that it scavenges dietary AGEs like its fellow amine aminoguanidine does (PMID: 10342821).

I target a selenium level just above 130 ng/ml. My dose-response curve is 200 mcg daily = 150 ng/ml, 200 mcg 6 days a week = 124 ng/ml, and 200 mcg 13 days per fortnight = 134 ng/ml.

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#11 Sillewater

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:20 AM

Welcome back Krillin




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