3 replies to this topic

[Raptor87]

http://www.sott.net/...se-in-New-Study

So what do you guy's think. Will parkinsons be more prevalent in those who use dopaminergics?

[jadamgo]

It's really important to differentiate between different types of dopaminergics. It's not proven that stimulating dopamine neurons causes parkinson's -- it's proven that high-dose amphetamine use does. But there was already a long string of studies proving that high-dose amphetamine use harms dopamine neurons, so this isn't that surprising. BTW, it's also believed that long-term, high-dose levodopa usage can accelerate the development of pre-existing Parkinson's disease, but I can't remember whether that was proven or just strongly suspected.

It's not proven that bupropion, MAO-inhibitors, dopamine receptor agonists, high-dose Tyrosine, or caffeine cause damage at clinically appropriate doses.

Methylphenidate is generally considered safe too, though there's recently been a bit of new data from a rodent study that's hard to interpret. Understood by the most parsimonious methods, the study implies that the average healthy adult should not take 750mg of Ritalin per day, or else brain cells will probably die. (Duh.) But there are some alternative methods of translating these findings to humans that suggest that far lower doses, like the ones actually used to treat ADHD in normal adults and children, could kill brain cells. Personally, I'm entirely unconvinced that running the numbers through so many standardized conversion factors maintains enough statistical power to actually say anything, especially something which contradicts large amounts of previous data.

But you asked a fair question and you deserve to know that there's another side to the argument here, and it says MPH might not be as safe as the current consensus believes.

[medievil]

At the same time they are a cure for parkinson (unrelated to the da release, according to da depleted rodents) also mdma works.

They are able to cause parkinson like movement disorders tough like ap's in rare cases.

It's really important to differentiate between different types of dopaminergics. It's not proven that stimulating dopamine neurons causes parkinson's -- it's proven that high-dose amphetamine use does. But there was already a long string of studies proving that high-dose amphetamine use harms dopamine neurons, so this isn't that surprising. BTW, it's also believed that long-term, high-dose levodopa usage can accelerate the development of pre-existing Parkinson's disease, but I can't remember whether that was proven or just strongly suspected.

It's not proven that bupropion, MAO-inhibitors, dopamine receptor agonists, high-dose Tyrosine, or caffeine cause damage at clinically appropriate doses.

Methylphenidate is generally considered safe too, though there's recently been a bit of new data from a rodent study that's hard to interpret. Understood by the most parsimonious methods, the study implies that the average healthy adult should not take 750mg of Ritalin per day, or else brain cells will probably die. (Duh.) But there are some alternative methods of translating these findings to humans that suggest that far lower doses, like the ones actually used to treat ADHD in normal adults and children, could kill brain cells. Personally, I'm entirely unconvinced that running the numbers through so many standardized conversion factors maintains enough statistical power to actually say anything, especially something which contradicts large amounts of previous data.

But you asked a fair question and you deserve to know that there's another side to the argument here, and it says MPH might not be as safe as the current consensus believes.

As far as i remember the da from rit gets broken down by a differened system.

If high doses cause parkinson then im sure that there are plenty reports of ex addicts that stayed on it for 40 or more years, i havent seen them (thats what im saying, not sarcastically).

"The researchers analyzed data from over 66,000 people who reported use of the amphetamine-based ADHD drugs from 1964 through 1973 said WTMA. The study's average follow-up was 39 years and the team found that people reported having taken Benzedrine or Dexedrine experienced a 56 percent increased likelihood of developing Parkinson's disease, versus people who did not take the medications, added WTMA."
read before i reply....

"The study, while provocative, does contain a couple of design flaws, which could render results questionable, said WTMA. The data was self-reported and gathered in one event. Because the information was gathered at one time over a four-decade period, there could be risk factors that were overlooked during the forty year period when information was not being collected and which could have affected the patients' risk for developing the disease. Self-reporting also tends to present credibility issues."
However im skeptical just because amphetamines can be a parkinson cure.

Edited by medievil, 27 January 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[jadamgo]

Yes and thanks for adding that quote from the webpage medievil, it clarifies that the study linked at the top was specific to Benzedrine (half-and-half mixture of levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine) and Dexedrine (pure dextroamphetamine).

We can assume these results apply to the modern amphetamine concoctions Vyvanse (lysine-dextroamphetamine) and Adderall (approx 3/4 dextroamphetamine and 1/4 levoamphetamine).