10 replies to this topic

[withdrawn]

Hi. I have been lurking around on this forum for the past year and have just recently decided to take the plunge and actually register and become a member.

Without going into too much detail, I am basically a supplement addict! I have tried a vast range of different supplements and herbal products during the last 10 years or so. I am a 30yr old male, I suffer from a severe form of generalized anxiety disorder (since 2007), and I also suffer from depression, which surfaced when I was 11 years old due to certain circumstances that had occurred in my childhood. I am from the United Kingdom.

My question to you all, and the advice that I need, is basically concerning my current state of mind. For the past 2 years I have noticed a very severe decline in my level of intelligence and thinking. I have slowed down completely. I never use to be this way, I was always deeply philosophical and could read novels and books in one sitting and just generally be analytically thinking, write poetry and stories and had a vast range in my vocabulary.

But unfortunately, these past 2 years, there has been a huge drop in my capacity to think straight, to focus and to think analytically. I am starting to become very aware of it, whether its from talking to my friends about interesting subjects to being able to have the attention span to actually focus on a movie or reading a book.

My mind seems to go completely blank, and I lose myself and sometimes stutter and stumble my words. I have become extremely forgetful, tired mentally and psychically and emotionally. My vocabulary has completely shrunk. I feel like I am becoming stupid.

I have no idea why this is happening to me. I have a stack of over 30 supplements, and around 15 I take on a daily basis. The only supplement I have introduced in the last 2 years has been magnesium glycinate, which I have taken religiously every single night for the past 2 years. I was also taking glutamine, which I ceased taking about a month ago because from what I have read online, it can sometimes have adverse effects mentally from long term use.

I am addicted to the magnesium glycinate - When I first discovered it, it really helped me with my sleep, though that effect has worn off but I still take it, around 4/5 capsules every night equalling to about 4/500mgs of magnesium.

I have searched the entire web for any adverse effects from magnesium, only to stumble on articles concerning magnesium overdose, the benefits of magnesium etc and glycine being beneficial for schizophrenics and other certain mental health disorders.

My current supplement stack includes: - Magnesium Glycinate
Zinc Glycinate / sometimes zinc methionine
Selenium methionine
Krill Oil
Phosphatidyl Serine
Acetyl l carnitine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
l Theanine
Co q10
Tulsi/Ashwagandha/Neem
Probiotic - Baccilus Coagulan
Citrus Pectin
Olive Leaf
Taxus Bevifolia
Acerola Cherry / Camu Camu Berry
Concentrace liquid trace mineral drops
N- Acetyl Cysteine
and a few more

I do not take these all on a daily basis apart from the probiotic, Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium and krill oil. The magnesium glycine I have taken religiously non stop for the last 2 years. Everything else I have seemed to cycled through at certain points throughout the year.

I just wanted to ask you all, what do you feel could have contributed to my slowing down, my mental of what seems like a retardation and my lower levels of concentration etc? I really honestly feel as though I have become dumb, i have lost all my creativity and just constantly feel completely sluggish mentally and physically.

I thought it may have been the ayurvedic herbs neem, tulsi, ashwaghanda, as I heard that sometimes these herbs are contaminated with heavy concentrations of heavy metals, especially lead. I took neem for months via capsules and tea every night, and I thought I may have lead poisoning as some of the symptoms related to it are retardation and Alzheimer like symptoms. I take citrus pectin for the reason as I heard it helps detoxify lead from the blood.

Any idea's on what is happening to me?

[Q did it!]

You may just be taking too much. Try to drop everything for a week or two then start over with your stack. What I have learned is that if a supplement has any negative affects or not visible/noticeable effect on cognition or heath I simply drop it and move on. And some things just do not go well together.

This may not be the same for you but I had a horrible experience with Ashwagandha; made me developed twitches, agitated mood, moody, and loose bowls, over miserable tell i stopped taking it.

Hope you get better.

[withdrawn]

Thank you Q, I am just curious to find out if it is the magnesium and If I have been taking it to long at a too high dosage. Because I take so many supplements it's hard to pinpoint exactly which one it is that might be having an effect. But I am 100% certain that its only the magnesium I have been taking every night throughout the last 2 years. I actually get anxious thinking about not taking it as it helped with my sleep immensely initially when I took it.

I might try your idea about dropping everything for a week and then introducing one by one back in. I've never done this before.

Edited by withdrawn, 08 February 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Q did it!]

Yes, I would strongly recommend you take a break from everything, including your magnesium for at least a week. It can be a hard thing to do especially if one has grown psychologically dependent on ones stack. It is a good idea to occasionally reassess and evaluate one stack. I am not very informed about the type of magnesium you are taking so hopefully someone who does will reply. As a side not I take magnesium Citrate before bed.

Edited by Q did it!, 08 February 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[renfr]

Could be excessive zinc/selenium overload. When you take heavy metals such as zinc you should carefully monitor your levels and stop once it goes out of range.
It could also be a downregulation of acetylcholine receptors due to chronic intake of phosphatidylserine and ALCAR.
You should withdraw from those and see if your situation resolves, it could also be acetylcholine overload though that one is unlikely.
Do you take anything else that can act on the CNS? such as caffeine, alcohol, other drugs...
Aside from that, what are the other supplements that you didn't mention in the list?
Could you also make an extensive list of your symptoms, for example do you have short term memory loss, how well you sleep, etc...?

[withdrawn]

Hi Renfr, thanks for the reply.

I have quite a few supplements! Almost two draws full. I only take a selected few from them though. I also sometimes take nettle, bromelain, quercetin, curcumin, inositol, canosine, vitamin b12 lozenges, beetroot supplement, pau d arco, cats claw etc, I tend to take certain herbs for specific things, like for example, if im coming down with a viral infection, its usually olive leaf, pau d arco and cats claw, for a bacterial infection, its tulsi and neem, for uti's its cranberry, d-mannose and neem, asthma, then its bromelain/quercetin etc.

I have to say, I do have a bit of an addiction. I'm buying supplements almost every other weekend. I'm glad most have a year or two shelf life, I have had to throw away quite a few in the past.

Ok so here is an extensive list of symptoms :-

Short term memory

very bad sleeping patterns (i tend to stay awake until about 3am/4am every evening and sleep up until about 10am/11am. It's not healthy but it has become a routine.

My mind goes blank

I've become very silly - like i have lost a lot of basic common sense in daily tasks

My attention span is practically zero. I just cannot sit threw a tv show/movie or read a book when before, I use to have such a deep engrossing attention span.

The stuttering and short thoughts are what worry me the most - i have a delayed reaction to questions being asked to me, i cannot think of words to say and it takes me a while to compile a sentence, it's like i have slowed down or my brain has slowed down.

My memory is really bad, here is just a typical example of many - I wear daily disposable contact lenses, before going to sleep, I would go to the bathroom, I would wash my hands, remove my contact lenses from my eyes, start washing my hands again, and then question myself if i had taken my contacts out or not yet - like i completely forget that I had just taken them out, and then I panic in case I think i still have them in my eyes and fall asleep with them in. It's just very strange to explain.

Even hanging out with friends - I would have an evening full of events like going to the cinema, hanging out with my friends, going for a meal, and then the next day, in the evening, it just feels like I have not seen any of my friends in such a long time and it feels as though I haven't hung out with anybody, and I feel the need to do it again. It doesnt satiate me like it use to. I could be content with going out with friends once maybe twice a week before because I would still have the memories/feelings and it would last the whole week, where as now, my memory recall is just really bad. I know that I had seen them the night before, but it's like the memories just aren't there anymore. I'm not sure if this is a blessing in disguise, because even though I suffer from depression, before, I would ruminate about my depressive symptoms, but i would also have memories, very deep vivid memories of events that took place etc, and now it feels like I just cannot think about anything. I use to be such a deep thinking introspective person, and now I feel completely shallow and blank.

The problem is, I am noticing this more and more each day and it scares me. It feels like my IQ is going down and I'm losing my intelligence.


The zinc/selenium comment you made has worried me slightly - I have taken zinc practically every day also, its a chelated form, mainly zinc glycinate. It states it's 22mg of zinc biglycinate and it is 220% of the RDI. I have never exceeded one tablet at a time, but I really feel like zinc does increase my immune system, hence why I have taken it for all this time. I did try and cycle through different versions of zinc, like zinc methionine, and zinc picolinate, but it's usually the zinc glycinate that ,my local health food store consistently stocks. The selenium is a yeast free version at 100ujg, and it states that this is 182% of the RDI. Again I have never exceeded more than one tablet a day.

Edited by withdrawn, 09 February 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[withdrawn]

BTW, I don't drink alcohol, or ever take drugs apart from smoking cigarettes/nicotine.

[protoject]

Stop taking all supplements. Also the notion of dosing too much zinc is seconded [though I don't know about selenium myself so I wont comment]. Chronic zinc dosing can cause copper and iron deficiency and problems with your brain. Anyway. Just stop taking everything. Trust us on this one. Stop taking everything for 3 months straight.

Personally I find that several ingredients in your stack all give me adverse mental effects so seeing you on all of them makes me kinda cringe. I won't say which ones they are cuz it doesn't really matter and everyone reacts differently. But seriously take a well-needed break here.

I could see why you're worried about aruvedic herbs as well [heavy metals], I've had the same fear about taking bacopa for long periods.

but anyway i can guarantee every supp. you are taking now is physically affecting your brain so just stop taking everything please. Many of the things you are taking are mind-altering. As funny as it would sound to someone who thinks these things are harmless. Everything adds up.

last thing. Because you told me you're addicted, you must brace yourself for the suffering that will definitely take place when you stop all supplements. But I'm sure after some time your head will clear up a bit and you will realize you're better off without them.

Of course if you think something truly does help you then I wouldn't discourage that. For example if you have severe insomnia and something helps you sleep without noticable side effects I wouldnt tell you not to take it, as long as you can beyond a reasonable doubt prove that it isn't doing any damage.

Edited by protoject, 09 February 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[withdrawn]

Thanks protoject, I think that is what I might have to do, though I get anxious thinking about going cold turkey.

I did not take any magnesium last night, and have had the worst sleep I have ever had in years. I feel completely groggy and sluggish. I was anxious all night.

I was not aware that the majority of supplements I am taking would have a negative effect on my mental health. I always thought the zinc/selenium i'm taking was at a real low dosage to cause any sort of detrimental effects.

[withdrawn]

It's been a few days since I have last taken any form of magnesium (glycinate), and I have to admit, it has been with worst few days for me. My depressive low mood has seemed to have made an unwanted reappearance.

Could this be withdrawal symptoms?

[Godof Smallthings]

I second the notion of dropping the supplements completely to let your body regain its own balance.

To cope with withdrawal, mindfulness meditation provides inner healing and balance, and will show you that you do not need to rely on externals. Regular meditation practice and a constant endeavour to apply mindfulness in everyday life has had the most radical effects of anything I've ever undertaken.

This lecture is where I started:

If you have an hour to spare, see if it resonates with you as well.