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Prefrontal Brain Repair

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#1 kottke

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 06:54 AM

Can anyone tell me the best way to increase/repair dopamine receptors, especially in the prefrontal cortex? I know this is kinda odd question, but ill be honest i had a concussion when i was 17-18 in my prefrontal regeion of my brain.I'm 21 now. I also was diagnosed with ADD has a kid, and im talking the real 'ADD". I see it in myself and my bros, we just dont really utilize our dopamine as effectivley as possible. Anyways, I havent been exactly the same since i hit my head and i know that the prefrontal cortex facilitates most of the dopamine receptors in your brain. I have aslo smoked marijuana and have done cocaine between that time and now, being the smart one that i am, and am currently dealling alot with depression and anxiety.

I had tried wellbutrin with cdp-choline and inositol, and had a horrible reaction, causing me to just stop all of them. I am currently now taking:

2x caps piractem 3x a day equalling the 4800mg mark
1 to 2 caps cdp -choline a day
Just recently low doses of id say 25mg picamilon
ocasional pretty sweet daily vitamin from rainbow life
Also recenetly 250mg of acetyl-l-carnatine with synthetic APA
Nordic Ultimate Omega on and off

Im mainly doing this for brain repair at the moment and well quite frankly im overstimulated as hell. Alot of the time i have to take some .5 ativan to go to bed which i dread doing do to its quick tolerance/dependencey factor. The picamilon is pretty good for anxiety id have to say but way too overstimulating for me. My brain is pretty wired as it is and all this sh*t together is causing me some pretty bad anxiety. I know that its do to the overexpressoin of acetlycholine, but im really trying to just work on my head and deal with the pain it brings. Furthering my question, im wondering if this is a fairly good way for brain repair, specifacally dopamine receptors. Also should i continue this route or lithium myself up or magesiobomb it to a zombiefied stated, therefore letting my NMDA and DA receptors rest.

I just ordered some Ortho Core along with some nice LEF Super EPA/DHA and plan to regimen with that longterm. Im going on tour this summer in Europe doing sound, and cant continue this regimen for its ups and downs are horrible. After i get these new supps im just wondering whether to go the "wake up neurons and dendodites time to fiddly foe fight" or be like "hey you guys need to chill....seriously"

Suggestions would be amazing

#2 kottke

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 07:53 PM

Dude, someone has to have some advice. Im not a druggie, and im not a hypochondriac, I Just need some help choosing my supps, since all my Doctor wants to do is throw happy pills at me.

I started taking the Ortho-Core and Super EPA/DHA and have felt pretty good. The CDP-Choline works alright but i get a pretty bad crash after its all said and done with, and i quite the piracetam for now. The ALCAR is pretty weak but i do feel it. The picamilon has caused a very odd reaction. I have taken it on random days but at night with extreme insomnia (and sometimes anxiety) i had to take a weak .5 mg ativan supplemnt to sleep, and the combination completley zombifies you, trailing on to the next day.

So yea...anyways... does anyone have any suggestions on dopamine agonists, particualarly ones that have repairative functions. I know that I mentioned anxiety, which dopamine agonists dont particulalry help, but i know that is MAIN source of my chemical depression. I apologize for my grammatical and punctuational errors, im a little sleepy.

As always, suggestions would be amazing

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#3 scottl

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 09:01 PM

If you search http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/ there is some interesting info on HIGH dose zinc and ADD seems to affect dopamine.

Edited by scottl, 08 May 2006 - 12:35 AM.

#4 kottke

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 08:29 PM

I've come to this conclusion through being diagnosed with ADD and showing signs from
the different types most my life. Now being 21 i have managed alot of these symtoms,
but most certainly still hold certain characteristics. My grandmother, mother, and
all my brothers show similar characteristics. All my life ive always had low energy
and a horrible time concentrating. If I did begin to concentrate i would
hyperconsentrate which would in turn give me a great amount of detail from the
conversation, but I could only focus on that one thing or person any other stimuli
would be completley ignored. What im getting at is ADD is a disorder with your
dopamine system and connections to the prefontal lobe.


Further proof that i have this disorder would be the spaciness i get from
perservatives and MSG, my lack of coordination, horrible planning skills, and lack of
If that wasnt bad enough, because of my upbringing after my parents divorced, lack of
authorative figure, and having a natural chemical imbalance, i began to use
recreational drugs. Marijuana was my drug of choice and i quite smoking last year, so
thats been 5yrs on and off smoking. I know that has attributed to my anxiety greatly
and probably has had some lasting effects on my dopamerginic system. I also got into
cocaine a year and half ago for about 4months straight, maybe a little longer and
this was like a 4month benge, doing horrible damage to my DA receptors.


~~~~Whenever i drink alcohol, take SAM-E, Rhodiola, Wellbutrin.. anything that
effects DA i have an amazing amount of clarity and become insanely productive.
Through my older regimen i had been taking many acetylcholine supplements which gave
me good concentration, but made me very irratble and i began to operate almost like a
robot. I didnt express much emotion and felt very rigid and bland with my
expressions, so i dont believe that is the problem. I have a real good memory

Serotonin is iffy, I mean i have done things that could have effected it, but ive
tried Lexapro for 2 and half weeks and I basically just felt like a happy little
zombie, like stubbs or something...congnition though, horrible. Of course many other
factors could play into this but moving on...

Extending this further i had a large concussion to my prefrontal lobe area about 2-3
years ago which has adversley effected my quality of life, bringing about major mood
swings and worsening depression.

These are the reasons why i beleive i have a DA malfunction. I understand that theres so many other things in your body and in life that can contribute to depression, but i strongly believe there is an inbalance.

#5 xanadu

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 09:56 PM

If you feel overstimulated it might possibly be the alcar you are taking. I had a reaction like that. I'm very sensitive to stimulants and the alcar made it very hard to sleep. Try taking that out and see how you do. If the picamilon helps your anxiety I doubt it's keeping you awake. Try taking one item out at a time, wait until you stabilise and analyze how you feel. When you add things, do it the same way, one at a time.

#6 kottke

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Posted 08 May 2006 - 11:20 PM

Yea you're right man and thats what im beginging to do. I have learned that Ativan is extremely addictive and i am having horrible withdrawal symtoms. I stopped it today and just took about 1.5mg of taurine and a gram of some high quality reishi to chill me out which seems to be helping greatly. [sfty]

I took a gram of ALCAR today and at first it gave me insane anxiety and irratability but after running a mile im feeling pretty good. I think im going to stop the ALCAR and just suck up the fact that i spent 17 bucks on it. It is as you said very overstimulating and not necessarily with clarity added with it. Some is there but it kinda makes me like...i dont know..angry..like i want to break something lol. [ang]

Through previous administration of the ALCAR i was cutting 500mg in half and still feeling pretty overstimulated. After taking this Ativan concecutivley for a week or so i have begun to become greatly depressed with no anxiety. I've learned this is because ativan has a long half life and is GABAing all my receptors leaving me in the zone. So i took a gram of ALCAR today, and well lets leave it at undetermined results. [glasses]

I am seriously considering throwing downn the money for some deprynyl. It seems like the best bet for me at the moment.
So that would be a foundation of:

LEF Super EPA/DHA 2-4 a day
Ortho.Core 5 or more a day

Then some added:

and most likely Reishi and taurine for the anxiety i beleive i will most certainly endure.

Any suggestions on altering this would be great [lol]

Edited by kottke, 09 May 2006 - 01:02 AM.

#7 markj

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 12:48 PM

Kottke, what you're describing sounds more like Asperger's Syndrome than ADD. Do some research on it. Read up on neuroplasticity as well.

#8 kottke

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 12:35 AM

Almost man, but not quite. I started to read on it and it was suprising me how much i fit into the description. I feature many other symptoms though, such as pleasure seeking, inattentiveness, hyperconcentration (similar), do enjoy others good time, and tend to get along with people pretty well.

However; when i was in highschool i was very trusting and ignorant. I was actually pretty escentric and didnt understand why people acted the way they did or did dumb things. I also and developing a problem with my coordination (especially in my legs) which is similar to the disease.

Charcot Marie tooth runs on my moms side though and both me and my older bro have arched feet so I could have a minor form of that which im actually starting to take very seriously...whatever thats going to do. And of course my whole DA theory on coordination.

Man I'm being way too open....

So while i may exhibit symptoms of Asperger's i dont beleive its fully me. I feature many more symtoms of the "real ADD".Thanks for pointing that out though mark, its very relavent.

Oh and neuroplasticity, when i get back from a trip im going on i think im going to try some tianeptine for 2 months or so then begin a daily regimen slowly after that.

Current Stack and Theory
1. Probiotic
2. Omega-3s and Omega 6s
3. Multivitamin

A. Theralac
C. Ortho Core

Anxiety: Ashwagandha, Reishi, Magnesium and Taurine. Just got the Ashwagandha today from Jarrows, works great

#9 spiritus

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 03:10 AM

I have anxiety an there is nothing I can do about it but hit it with a barage of supplments and 2 medications. I have dealt with bad depression but that seems to be a thing of the past.

Heres what may help you, to be honest I take most of these daily.


Vit A - 300 mcg
Beta Carotine - 1,800 mcg
Vitamin E - 50 mg
Vit C - 90 mg
Folic Acid - 600 mcg
Vit B1 - 2.25mg
B2 - 3.2mg
Niacamide - 15mg
B6 -5mg
B12 - 20mcg
Vit D - 10mcg
Biotin 45mcg
Pantothetic Acid - 45mcg
Lutien - 250mcg

I really do not feel like writing out the host of minerals, but it appears fine.

Added on to that, I take 3 1200mg
Flaxseed Oil Caps,
3 1000mg Alaskan Salmon Oil caps,
100mg Alpha Lipotic Acid,
100mg Co-QEnzyme q-10,
10,000mg of grape seed extract,
500 mg citrus tasting vitamin C chewable,
vitamin B complex vitamin,
"total energy" containing 175mg Royal Jelly and Bee Pollen, Rocky Mountain Wheat Grass 125mg, Siberian Ginsing 100mg, Kola Nut 100mg.
Remember FX (by cv pharms)
30mg Paraxotine (paxil)
5 mg klonopin (need to take this anyway, period. this keeps me from being too hyper but kills motivation problems.

#10 kottke

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 04:30 AM

Dude, that is an insane amount of supplementation. Watch out for that Vitamin A man with the high vita amount and all the fish oil.If it works though it works. I would maybe tune the whole thing down a knotch, but thats just me.

Im feeling pretty good off my supplementation at the moment. It may just be the ashwagandha voodooing me at the moment, but things are getting alot more stable and clearer. Still not where i want to be, but im getting there..then ill grow wings
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#11 Shepard

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 04:32 AM

Dude, that is an insane amount of supplementation.

Child's play.

spiritus, are you sure that you take 10g of GSE?

#12 kottke

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 04:51 AM

Yea, you're right alot of you guys do definantly bump it up to the next level. But if your dealing with anxiety, i dont man, most of that stuff seems too stimulating. Then again if you pop a kolonipin on the whole mess it may just tackle the beast (supplements). I dont know how you guys do it anyways. 500mg of ALCAR im wired all day. Less then 50mg of picamilon, same effect. Piracetam, sleepy but no sleep. I guess its because im young too, how old are you shepard?

#13 Shepard

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 05:00 AM

I'm right about the same age as you.

#14 kottke

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 07:42 PM

so not everyones the same?

#15 doug123

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 08:31 PM

I don't know if anything will -- repair -- brain damage too extensively. Modafinil might help "simulate" a better functioning frontal lobe, however.

Prefrontal cortex functionality can be enhanced by modafinil



ATLANTA- Two phase III clinical trials presented at the 158th Annual
Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association show that pediatric
formulation modafinil is an effective new treatment for ADHD in
children and adolescents and might be a safer alternative to the
stimulant drugs now used.


In the first trial, James M. Swanson, PhD, Director of the Child
Development Center at the University of California, Irvine, and
colleagues evaluated the new modafinil pediatric formulation in
children and adolescents with ADHD. "Modafinil increases alertness
and task performance. It has been shown to be very effective and is
widely used to treat excessive sleepiness, particularly narcolepsy. It
appears to activate the prefrontal cortex in a different way than the
stimulant drugs, and exploratory studies in attention-deficit disorder
had looked at potential doses that might be effective for the treatment
of ADHD,"
Dr. Swanson said. "The next step was to try to adapt
modafinil for pediatric use with a smaller, easier- to-take formulation
targeting the doses the initial study



#16 kottke

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 09:12 PM

Thanks for the advice nootro. I think im going to stay clear from "stimulants" for the moment, even though that may not technically be a stimulant. I'm more looking for something that has a repairative function and a "now" beneficial effect. I may seriously consider this stuff though when i get to a more stable platform. I'm really digging this ashwaganha i got a few days ago it rocks pretty hard, and it supposedly repairs denderites over a period of use. And that question before this was joke (in case you thought i was an idiot). Everyone is completely different except for grunts, lemmings, and most minions.

#17 xanadu

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 09:32 PM

If anxiety is the problem I would definately try rhodiola rosea. It's not a tranq exactly, it doesn't seem to depress the nervous system, it just helps you deal with whatever is going on. I used to use it and ran out. Recently I got some again and the effects are fast and very well worth taking. I get mine in powder form from bulk nutrition.

I was going to say something about the 10,000 mg of grape seed but shepard beat me to it.

#18 catshmat

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 12:05 AM

Wellbutrin should be good for what you're looking for. Don't take it if your sure that is caused your reaction but I suspect inositol. When I took inositol, I bacame very foggy and had serious stomach problems.

Try Theanine for anxiety, sleep, and focus. Should help with one of those. Galantamine is a good one. Increases cognitive capacity and is slightly stimulating.

I would stay away form stimulants like phetamines, caines, xanthines (caffeine, theobromine, theophylline), and ephedra/ine.

Some more suggestions: 400-800mg pyritinol, 750-1500mg aniracetam, 2400-4800mg piracetam. Oh, and "Neurozyme" by New Chapter (2 capsules/day).

You've got a good multi. I cant take the edgy stimulation of Acetyl-L-Carnitines. Fish oil (EPA in particular) is a good bet. Country Life and AOR make some good high-EPA fish oil capsules.

#19 bacopacabana

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:18 PM

You might try going the neurofeedback route. ADD is their bread and butter, and a good neurotherapist will be well versed in dealing with anxiety/insomnia as well. Takes about 40 sessions.

#20 jpars82

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 03:44 PM

Hey kottke,

Maybe adding a dopamine agonist could help.... many of them have neuroprotective, free radical scavenging abilities. Here's a study on ropinirole I looked up: http://www.biopsychi.../ropinirole.htm. Among other things, it protected striatal dopaminergic neurons. A lot of dopamine agonists have beneficial effects like this.... I don't know which would be the best though. Plus, I'm not sure if any of them have a regenerative or repairative function... maybe though. I've tried quite a few of them and ADD-wise, piribedil was the most beneficial.... I don't know if it's as good the others though as far as it's antioxidant potential, etc.

Myself, I suffer from social anxiety, depression, and some sort of ADD. I was extremely smart as a kid(i'm now 23) getting all As and then around junior high things kept progressively getting worse.... I have inattentiveness and space out a lot. I've been through the ssri route too... they only made me more spacey. Interestingly though, I'm now taking Adderall + Lexapro... for some reason they work better together for me. I don't get the zombie-effect of ssris when I'm taking Adderall. I'm not promoting Adderall at all... but it seems to be the only thing that works right for me. I did get some relief with Modafinil but it wasn't helpful for ADD-symptoms, and Deprenyl made things worse... but everyone's different. For me... adderall, lexapro, fish oil, vitamins, glycine, tyrosine, multiple antioxidants, green tea, a good diet & exercise, and different gaba supplements seems to be giving me the most relief I've had ever at the moment. Believe me, I'm no fan of ssris, but if you ever do try adding an ssri again, you could try zoloft... i think it increases dopamine a little bit also. Here's a chart on ssris additional actions: http://www.psychiatr...torm/br5912.htm

Anyways... good luck man!


PS- have you tried idebenone?

#21 kottke

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 01:25 AM

Haha, man sorry about the delayed responses ive been in and out of reality lately. Too better answer you all in entirety ill make a list of things that dont and might work.

L-theanine (though i may try one last time)
Galantamine - i beleive will not help my anxiety at all
Neurofeedback - sounds great, but would be impossible to fund
Im staying away from racetams until i can get this f*cking anxiety to stop
Aderall-Im truly glad that this works for you parsell, but im not messing with it do to its possible longterm effects.
Acetl L Carnatine - I always crash, it never seems to fail. I tried, it has great documentation, but it does not connect the dots


Some sort of SSRI (god help me if it comes this)
Maybe some of the stuff you suggested parsell

IS...this is kinda sounding like a skipping record but
Theralac - Pretty amazing id have to say. I never get heartburn anymore and my energy level has enhanced greatly. Highly recomend
LEF Fish Oil - Stability
Ortho-Core - My hair grows faster and minerals seep from my pores. This is how i show people im healthier then they are

Im beginging to believe my problems are on 2 sides of the neurostransmitter spectrum. Whenever i take GABA enhancing supplements my anxiety is releived but my depression increases. DA agonists make me feel amazing and clear, but are usually followed by intense anxiety. And i know theres so many other factors and its not really the best to isolate these 2 things, but it may be better to say that these are the core dysfuntinal systems. I'm becoming very frustrated with the fact that i did heavy drug use when i was younger becuase it is definantly more then showing...but that was my decision and whatever, you gotta live with that sh*t thats life. I should just be happy im alive and not in an African civil war.

Anyways, i think i may need to start adding some major interventions like SSRIs if this depression/anxiety will not stop. I hope it doesnt come to this, and i hope i can find the funds to invest in something like Tianeptine before haveing to get hooked to a less effective antidepressants on the US market. They all definantly are effective in someway or another, but through deep research i see no reason to try anything else but Tianeptine other then its not available in the US and its very expensive. Remeron seems near it on the side effect profile at least, but not necessarilly its mode of action.

Thanks for the advice guys

#22 xanadu

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 10:07 PM

I've said it before, if you have anxiety, try rhodiola rosea. It's an adaptogen and helps you deal with stress. It's not a downer, you just don't feel stressed. For depression, the best thing I know of is salvia divinorum. Do some reading before trying it. The idea is to take a small dose that just takes care of the problem.

#23 jpars82

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 02:42 PM

Aderall-Im truly glad that this works for you parsell, but im not messing with it do to its possible longterm effects.

I completely agree, that's why I'm taking a lot of antioxidants, tyrosine and glycine. I'm hoping the glycine will help protect from NMDA being over-stimulated.

#24 kottke

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 10:04 PM

Well Xandu i just happend to find and old supplement i got from Ron Teeguarden that had rhodiola in it. I stopped it a long time ago, because at the time i was mixing too many things and getting awkward facial expressions on my face..so i found it , and i have to say it is doing me good. Its called *CardioPro 2000 and it has Duanwood Reishi (which by the way is the best source of Reishi anywhere) Tibetan Rhodiola (really from Tibet) and Gynostema in that order.

Im on day 3 and im feeling a hell of alot better then i was. Ive also begun Ashwagandha again after my cold had passed. Which by the way this may not be a rule of thumb, but i would not suggest taking any of these while having a cold. I had taken bother Reishi and Ashwaganda by themselves when i had this little cold going on, and i got an insane fever and had to take some major Ibprofun for it to bring it down. Being as persistant as i was i did a little ashwagandha the next day and same reaction. Feeling good now though, and I just ordered some Deprenyl and we'll see how that goes.

Good looks on protecting your brain parsell. Dont let those amphetamines trick ya

#25 boilerroom

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 10:58 PM

Rhodiola did not help me (500mg Jarrow's) at all. It actually includes a warning label for those already suffering from mood disorders. I actually just ordered Ashwagandha because of its positive effects on GABA, which I certainly feel I'm deficient in. I really liked Theanine, but my tolerance is way too high for it to be a cost-effective option. Ashwagandha could be ever more potent and last longer.

I also came to the conclusion that an Antidepressant is probobly necessary. However, I want to stay on an extremely low dose, and I refuse to ever up the dosage. I've decided on Cymbalta (a serotonin and norephedrine inhibitor with mild dopamine inhibition) coupled with Ashwagandha to treat my depression/ADD problems.
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#26 kottke

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 03:51 PM


Ive been reading alot of modafanil and have been seriously considering it. There are 4 things im worried about that maybe you could clear up for me.
1. Doesnt the lowering of GABA and increasing of NMDA receptors bring haven to neurotoxicity?
2. If one has anxiety what would be the most synergetic thing to take with modafanil? Glycine? Taurine? Magnesium? all? and would this render the drug useless?
3. Does modafanil cuase permanent changes in the brain (for the better) that will continue after disintinuation? More like LTP not repairative functions.
4. would it be smart for someone who has abused drugs, maybe furthering deteriation due to overexitacion?

Anyone can answer this; i just know adam is tha masta on mada

#27 ikaros

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:46 PM

Hi dude, kind of sounds like me bit. I'm also quite a neurochemical f*ckup. I've been diagnosed with OCD and ADD.
I think you're problem comes mostly from the use of cocaine because it's effect on dopamine receptors is well...catastrophic, especially if you suffer from ADD. As much as I know about neurobiology, it should get better, but it will take a lot of time, I mean we're talking about years here and good nutrition is also a must.
Personally I've tried the whole SSRI arsenal and usually they are welltolerated, but for me very few work, because my OCD (which is pretty severe) doesn't want to go away so easily. What worked was fluvoxamine (Luvox), but I got the nasty side-effect of mania. I jumped around like crazy, felt very aggressive, thoughts were running through my head at high speeds, hypersexual behaviour, I thought I was coming up with ideas that would change the world etc. Shortly put - quite nuts.
Right now I'm considering Tianeptine, because of it's effectiveness against stress, anxiety and the fact that it repairs stress related brain damage and has nootropic capabilities. This french drug sounds very promising and it has minimal side-effects also.
What's more, I've also tried piracetam along with choline and even though it made me very smart (I mean people around me were amazed of my thinking abilities), but it also robbed me my sleep and I was way too overstimulated, like I had ingested too much amphetamine or smth like that. So my advice, if you find yourself jumpy on those, quit them, they'll make your condition worse, besides piracetam works only if you have an underlying neurochemical problem which is limiting your ability to think.

#28 kottke

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:12 PM

Yea man, Dopamine is life. Its so f*cking important and ive played it like a first person shooter. I know it will replenish overtime, but its those mangled thoughts you get in the now and seeing people do amazing things in life because their happy juice is full and they're content that makes things seem hopeless. But time takes time you know. Its good to know that theres someone with similar symptoms as me, to relate too, and has to feel the pain hahaha (im tottaly joking). I think we'll get along just fine ikaros of the cool ass name crew.

You dont think piracetam helps drug induced brain damage at all?

#29 ikaros

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:23 PM

It might help, if the problem is concerned with cholinergic system of the brain, for example with learning disabilities, some dementia, Alzheimer's or any other condition which is affected by cholinergic neurotransmission. But I doubt that in your case (trying to fix your dopaminergic pathways) it's going to have a big effect, though it can't hurt much either if you don't find the overstimulation tiresome which I do find very annoying.
Also what might help is gingko biloba, because cocaine messes with cerebral bloodflow and gingko has proven to increase cerebral bloodflow and be a neuroprotective substance.

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#30 kottke

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 11:17 PM

Yea, i have tried piracetam in the past and had the effect you mentioned. On the vasoladation,I think vinpocetine or hydergine would be better for the cerebral bloodflow; gingko, though very effective in many ways, has had some contradictions with it that dont come to mind at the moment. I didnt know cocaine had such effects on cerebral bloodflow longterm.

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