52 replies to this topic

[markymark]

Hello to all who have embarked on various Resveratrol Regimens/Sources 250 mg plus recently.
I am interested in an update about the initially reportet biological subjective effects.

I myself am on 225 mg TRESV comprised of 125 mg out of 500 mg 25% Polygonum c. (considerable Emodin effect, although I have not yet received information about Emodin content from the manufacturer) and 100 mg from the LEF plus quercetin product.

In my case RESV came as add-on to a typical mid-extensive supplement regimen, mostly LEF-Products and I felt not bad anyway befor starting RESV about 4 weeks ago.
However I also sensed the effect of being less exausted after cycling and running at the very same levels like I did before for years.

I would appreciate some updates from the gentlemen and (women?) out there (lab. readings etc).
It might also be good to keep information and wording regarding sources and prices low level in this thread..!?

Regs
MM, (male 42 Yrs., Weight 72 Kilo, 175 cm)

[Mind]

Take a look here for 29 (and counting) pages of discussion. Not much hard evidence/blood tests reported but a lot of subjective/anecdotal results.

[markymark]

ups, hello Mr. Mind.
I forgot to state, that I of course have read the whole 500 thread. For some time no updates on effects have been posted there..
Therefor I descided to start a new one......
thanks, however for the hint.

mm

[Mind]

My feeling is that a thread on negative effects might better serve the longevity research community. Since most of the people taking resveratrol were already on a program of agressive supplementation, I find it doubtful there would be noticeable "health improving effects" in such a short time frame (would like to see blood results and other bio-markers). I suspect the placebo effect has come into play. There is a large number of people taking the substance so I would think there would be some sort of side-effects that develop (at least in a fraction of the users). This data might help future or on-going lab research into resveratrol.

[markymark]

My feeling is that a thread on negative effects might better serve the longevity research community.

......of course my call included negative effects too. Therfore exactly I asked for an "update" or "follow up", without anticipating a direction, e. g. towards positive or negative health effects.
Being an MD, Internist I hope to be appropriately critical and informed about suggestion and placebo effects
It was also remakable to me how serious many posters were in terms of saying like... "It might be subjecive or placebo etc. "


If you permit, I also doubt your position, i. e that some weeks (you stated "... in such a short time frame", an probably meant weeks...) would be too short for a noticeable effect. Did you try TRESV by yourself to make the test?

Thus, exactly for the reason i. e. to also hear about neutral or negativ effects during ongoing RESV consumption, I made this call.
Thank you for your thoughts.
MM

[maxwatt]

Negative effects:

One individual had diarrhea even with pure synthetic resveratrol (Orchid) so the effect was not due to emodin. The effect is repeatable and dissappears on cessation. (350 mg/day)

Another individual reported to me they were diagnosed with pericarditis, painful but not life-threatening, repeatedly induced by resveratrol consumption, and stopped on cessation of dosage. This was a 50% extract. (apparently 500 mg/day total resveratrol)

Positive effects that are measurable, not attributable to placebo effect:

My blood lipids: total cholesterol went from 220 to 199, HDL from 32 to 42 between January 4th (beginning of dosing) and March 1st. I hope it has dropped further on the next test I do. Used a Cardiocheck meter to measure these parameters.

Arthritis symptoms ameliorated: less finger pain and swelling. One finger joint that would get stuck, no longer does.

Dosage for above effects: 450 mg /day, splid morning and night January; 1 gm/day, split twice a day Feb.
March dosage 1.5 g/day, three divided doses for two weeks, reverted to between 1 and 1,6 g/day after two weeks.

Edited to add:

Seemed to exacerbate sinus congestion (existing allergies) to the point it was hard to sleep. Stopped taking after about 2PM by eliminating third 500 mg dose, second week in March. Night-time congestion gone. Resveratrol is know to exacerbate pre-existing vascular inflammation, I believe this accounts for the sinusitis, and the above mentioned case of pericarditis.

Aerobic performance is better than my level of training should allow. Definite "lift in mood" noted.

Edited by maxwatt, 04 April 2007 - 12:41 AM.

[proteomist]

Well, I'll add my experience:

I started at 500mg daily (total TResv) from a 50% extract about ten days ago. Dosage was 250 morning and evening, and taken with 2-4 grams of fish oil. I also started ALCAR/ALA at the same time, so the effects are rather confounded.

Over the first three days I noticed initially mild, but increasing, CNS stimulatory and also laxative effects, the latter presumably from emodin. This culminated in an overnight experience that could only be described as performing a colonoscopy prep on speed. Very unpleasant indeed.

I ceased TResv for two days and treated with immodium OTC. When conditions had stabilized, I continued immodium treatment but reintroduced TResv, 250mg the first day, 500 the next, and 750 the third, with no recurrence of symptoms. Then I ramped the immodium down and so far things are quite stable. Possibly confounding, I also introduced turmeric during this time.

The CNS effect has diminished substantially (entirely?). Persistent effects include a slightly lowered resting heart rate, and (subjectively appraised) moderately increased aerobic capacity. This could be due in part or total to the ALCAR, for all I know. No measurable effect on BP has been noticed to date.

I do wonder if halting this regimen suddenly would give a rebound CNS depression effect. When I have time to suffer through such a thing, I may test the hypothesis.

[Mind]

Good questions Marky. Just a bit of intuition on the "short time frame" comment. It seems most substances that work in a short time frame (days to a couple weeks) and have noticeable/demonstrable affects on the body/mind are well known and tightly regulated, while other supps that claim to have beneficial effects and work in the long term are the holistic/natural/alternative stuff that is unregulated. Resveratrol is probably too new to pass judgement. Still, I would like to see blood tests, bio-markers, and metabolism tests. That would be much more helpful than anecdotal evidence. Nice wish list hey? Too bad I don't own a nice clinic where I could run a year-long human trial. I would think there is someone out there in the world initiating a study.

[xanadu]

I don't use the heroic doses but at around 70mg per day I noticed a definite increase in energy and a lift in mood. It has not tapered off, after 3 weeks or so it seems the same. I use BAC's 50% powder which is definitely the good stuff and cheap too. I can't say about blood workup because I haven't had one but it feels good so far. No side effect except a little harder to get to sleep. Possibly more gas.

[maxwatt]

Xanadu's lift in mood is an effect reported by many; resveratrol is known to be a mild SSRI.

I also edited my post above to indicate additional, but less objective, effects.

[tintinet]

Possible side effect I've experienced: Some days, mid afternoon (usually near 3 PM), I notice flushing of my hands, at times with a distal tingling sensation, for a few minutes. This occurs hours from any resveratrol intake, but I've only experienced it since I began taking higher dose resveratrol, FWIW.

[ageless]

I think the hardest thing is to distinguish any benefits because of all the various 'goodies' i take... I'm also taking benegene for example and I like to think I'm losing weight judging by the mirror.
Slight mood elevation possible?
Slight gas at times.
Only on a dose of approx. 50mg/day or so.
increased libido?
Most sides I have noticed seem to suggest GI upset when taking doses of RES and at the higher doses it is quite evident with Biotest brand ResV

[rfarris]

...resveratrol is known to be a mild SSRI.

Isn't that actually an SNRI?

[edward]

I think there is more going on than the purposed SSRI/SNRI effect. Most SSRIs and SNRI take about a month to have an effect and then steadily increase in effect to and level off.

Resveratrol seems to have a big initial effect (first week) that slowly declines and then levels off leaving one feeling better feeling better than normal with more energy but not stimulated.

[proteomist]

SSRIs can have a strong, immediate effect if one's system has not been previously, or at least recently, exposed to them. This can include euphoria, increased social interest, increased sexual arousal, etc. However, homeostasis prevails within a day or two. The therapeutic effects then take several weeks to build, as you indicate.

Edited by proteomist, 05 April 2007 - 03:33 AM.

[bixbyte]

Beautiful Blood Test Results on RSV for 3.5 years
Nobody listened to me until the harvard study was published in the NYT
The Flushes are mentioned by someone, I became use to them after two years.
When you go to a restroom wet a paper towel and cool your face and head.
Be careful of the many brands that cause the runs.
I had some bottles of NOW they are bad and called the company to complain.
Yes, RSV does appear to make me more aggressive.
My blood pressure right now is 123/74.
I first tried taking RSV because my doctor was considering me a candidate for Lipitor.
Then my Cholesterol #'s went good.
My wife saw the numbers and started taking.

Added 2,000 MG Fish Oil and 10 Mg Policosanol years ago

My last blood test was Jan 30, 2007
Dr did not do a cholesterol test with the other tests.

I had a Thallium Stress test that Dr told me I was 100%

Going to ask for the heart CT scan next.

Want to see if RSV really extends anyones Life Expectancy.

Alex

[tintinet]

CT scan, eh? Like whole body screen?

Ya sure ya wanna: Risk/Benefit?

[bixbyte]

CT scan, eh? Like whole body screen?

Ya sure ya wanna: Risk/Benefit?

No, I want a CT Scan of my heart
This is a new test that shows calcium plaque deposits and rates you
with a number from 0 to 400
0 is a newborn and 400 is you are having a heart attack

You can see the actual calcium deposits on your heart.
Requires iodine dye injection

Google Heart CT Scan

[valjean]

...
Arthritis symptoms ameliorated: less finger pain and swelling.  One finger joint that would get stuck, no longer does.
...

The following was in vitro, but maybe, partially the described effects are reproducible in vivo and are
responsible for the reported joint improvement:

Institute of Anatomy, Musculoskeletal Research Group, Ludwig-Maximilian-University Munich, Pettenkoferstrasse 11, D-80336 Munich. mehdi.shakibaei@med.uni-muenchen.de

Resveratrol is a polyphenolic phytoalexin that is present in various fruits, in the skin of red grapes and peanuts. Recent studies have shown that resveratrol exhibits potent antioxidant properties and is able to exert anti-inflammatory and anti-catabolic properties in several cell types. The pro-inflammatory cytokine interleukin-1beta (IL-1beta) plays a pivotal role in the pathogenesis of osteoarthritis (OA) in humans and animals. In this article we investigated whether resveratrol is able to block the effects of IL-1beta, specifically the activation of caspase-3 and subsequent cleavage of poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase (PARP) in human articular chondrocytes. Cultures of human chondrocytes were prestimulated with 10 ng/mL IL-1beta for 1, 12, and 24 h before being co-treated with IL-1beta and 100 microM resveratrol or 50 microM of the caspase inhibitor Z-DEVD-FMK for 1, 12, and 24 h, respectively in vitro. Resveratrol significantly reduced the IL-1beta-induced inhibition of expression of cartilage-specific collagen type II and signal transduction receptor beta1-integrin in a time-dependent manner. Incubation of chondrocytes with IL-1beta resulted in the activation of caspase-3 and PARP cleavage. These effects were abolished through co-treatment with resveratrol. Furthermore, co-treatment of IL-1beta-stimulated cells with the caspase inhibitor Z-DEVD-FMK blocked activation of caspase-3 and PARP cleavage, suggesting that this process is a caspase-dependent pathway. In summary, our results confirm that resveratrol is an effective inhibitor of chondrocyte apoptosis in vitro. These findings suggest that this dietary polyphenolic compound may have future applications in the nutraceutical-based therapy of human and animal OA.

PMID: 17404069 [PubMed - in process]

I've had a burning feeling in both knees one morning I awake in Jan 2006 which disappears after a few
days. But since then it was a challenge for me to cower because of pressure in the knee joints and a
mild pain. After starting with resveratrol there was not much change. Then I added grape seed powder
to my daily resveratrol regime in order to achieve synergistic effects. Within a week the pressure and
pain starts to diminish. Currently I can cower down to the full extend and then lift my whole body weight
without resting on my hands - no pressure and no pain from my knees. I hope this will persist ...

[tintinet]

CT scan, eh? Like whole body screen?

Ya sure ya wanna: Risk/Benefit?

No, I want a CT Scan of my heart
This is a new test that shows calcium plaque deposits and rates you
with a number from 0 to 400
0 is a newborn and 400 is you are having a heart attack

You can see the actual calcium deposits on your heart.
Requires iodine dye injection

Google Heart CT Scan

Ya. If you're concerned with calcium deposition, you might consider vitamin K2

K2 LEF info

[bixbyte]

CT scan, eh? Like whole body screen?

Ya sure ya wanna: Risk/Benefit?

No, I want a CT Scan of my heart
This is a new test that shows calcium plaque deposits and rates you
with a number from 0 to 400
0 is a newborn and 400 is you are having a heart attack

You can see the actual calcium deposits on your heart.
Requires iodine dye injection

Google Heart CT Scan

Ya. If you're concerned with calcium deposition, you might consider vitamin K2

K2 LEF info

********************************************************************************
*********

Thanks for the vitamin K study.
I currently take 650 micrograms/week of vita K

If I can talk my doctor into allowing me the CT Heart scan I'll have more insight to my heart calcification levels.
Always nice to know.

Alex

********************************************************************************
************

[OutOfThyme]

CT scan, eh? Like whole body screen?

Ya sure ya wanna: Risk/Benefit?

No, I want a CT Scan of my heart
This is a new test that shows calcium plaque deposits and rates you
with a number from 0 to 400
0 is a newborn and 400 is you are having a heart attack

You can see the actual calcium deposits on your heart.
Requires iodine dye injection

Google Heart CT Scan

You may want to consider going with the FDA approved Electron Beam CT scan if you do follow through with calcium scoring. Far less radiation (in cardiac testing at least) and the low Agatston score you’re likely to receive will carry more weight.

Calcium scores from helical (multi-slice/multi-detector row--same thing) compared to EBT (electron beam) CT have high correlation; except in low score candidates <11 Agatston score. There doesn’t appear to be an optimal threshold consensus for the number of pixels constituting a lesion on multi-detector CT’s. EBT’s on the other hand use 130 HU (Hounsfield Units) for threshold attenuation.

Study comparing EBT and Multi-Slice CT
http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_DocSum

See study questioning validity of low calcium scores between modalities:
http://radiology.rsn.../full/230/2/397

64 slice CT’s are proving valuable. The 256 slice machine will be out soon capable of scanning the heart within a single beat.
See study:
http://circ.ahajourn...ourcetype=HWCIT

Radiation dose comparing 16 and 64 slice (multi-detector) CT machines with contrast dye.
See study:
http://www.circ.ahaj...ull/113/10/1305
The overall effective dose estimate of cardiac CT
16 Slice: 6.4±1.9 mSv
64 Slice: 11.0±4.1 mSv (P<0.01).
Multiply Sievert x100 to convert to Rem

Worth inquiring about ECG-dependent dose modulating algorithms that reduced radiation dose by 40%/37% and x-ray tube voltage reductions further lowering the dose to 53%/64% respectively, UNLESS you have a history of arrhythmias or need the highest possible image quality throughout the cardiac cycle. Something to discuss with your doctor and/or radiological technician.

You should start a thread on the topic to discuss further.

[rfarris]

My LDL/HDL scores:

09-Nov-06, 40mg T-Res, 155/47
26-Jan-07, 140mg T-Res, 119/55
03-Apr-07, 480mg T-Res, 87/60

Before Nov-06 I'd been taking 40mg of tres for at least six months. Shortly thereafter I began to take 140mg/day. By the end of January I had bumped it up to 480mg/day. Not bad.

[markymark]

hello rfarris,
looks terrific
any other lifestyle change or factor which could have been influential?
regs
mm

[rfarris]

I am diabetic and take the usual batch of meds, but they haven't changed over the last six months. My diet is constant. I had a seizure in September and it put me through a fair amount of stress which might have had something to do with the November readings, but the April readings are the lowest they've ever been.

[markymark]

hm, rfarris
if you are a type I diabetic it is somewhat difficult to apply the the classical effects of resv., although one might would expect that the insulin dosage you need might went down a bit?

If you are a type II, in an earlier stage, i. e. high fasting-insulin, the latter should have come down a bit as might did fasting glucose.... and weight too ;-)?

In the end, if I would be at your place, I would do the same:
use conventional prescription drugs and all diagnostic capabilities of mainstream medicine if appropriate and at the same time nutraceutical supplements. The element of speculation, when it comes to supplements is, however, unavoidable for us living today. Therefore, in my oppinion this forum and all other sources for information and exchange of information are vere very heplful for all.

Of course big RTCs comparing resv. vs. placebo in different diseases (metabolic syndrome, camcer prevention rheumatic diseases, allergies, improvement of physis in sports etc.) would be great. They will hopefully come,at least in some ares.. But we don't have it...

The forums in here are pioneerism (I hope the word exists in the english language) at its best.
Btw. the US people should defend their Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA)!!

regs
mm

[bixbyte]

Congrats rfarris Great numbers!

[rfarris]

I was diagnosed with type 2 about fifteen years ago. I wasn't very well controlled until I found the LEF protocol about two years ago, (essentially a low carb diet that loads most of the dietary input towards the morning, and nothing later in the evening after 6PM) and since then my fasting blood sugar generally runs between 100 and 110. Occasionally when I go on a (one day) bread binge I'll run at maybe 125. Still, my quarterly A1c comes out perfectly.

I take l-carnosine for the AGE thing, and ALCAR and R-ALA on top of metformin and Avandia. I don't take any sulfanure... uh ... how ever you spell them.

Still, when I added the ~500mg of resveratrol, the LDL/HDL levels got considerably better.

[health_nutty]

My LDL/HDL scores:

09-Nov-06, 40mg T-Res, 155/47
26-Jan-07, 140mg T-Res, 119/55
03-Apr-07, 480mg T-Res, 87/60

Before Nov-06 I'd been taking 40mg of tres for at least six months.  Shortly thereafter I began to take 140mg/day.  By the end of January I had bumped it up to 480mg/day.  Not bad.

Awesome. Thanks for posting.

[maxwatt]

I measured my cholesterol this morning.

It was 161; when I started taking resveratrol four months ago, in January, it was around 220.

No other dietary or lifestyle changes to account for the drop. I've been measuring at roughly bi-weekly intervals using a Cardiocheck brand meter with cholesterol test strips.

FWIW, I am using a 98% extract from the Polygonum cuspidatum plant.