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Beta-Alanine vs. L-Carnosine


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Poll: Beta-Alanine vs. L-Carnosine Updated To include the Taurine Issue (76 member(s) have cast votes)

Beta-Alanine vs. L-Carnosine multiple answers are ok (in terms of boosting the body's carnosine levels for an antiaging effect)

  1. Beta-Alanine is as effective as or more effective than L-Carnosine (32 votes [35.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.16%

  2. L-Carnosine is more effective than Beta-Alanine (26 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  3. Beta-Alanine + Histidine taken together is the right way to go (2 votes [2.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.20%

  4. I am dropping Beta-Alanine/Carnosine due to the potential Taurine Depletion Issue (5 votes [5.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.49%

  5. I think increased Taurine Supplementation taken away from Beta/Carn will take care of the Taurine Depletion issue (26 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

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#1 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:20 AM


This has bothered me, and I am getting ready to reorder L-Carnosine, I take beta-alanine also and I am wondering if the L-Carnosine is really worth the cost. Some people, Paul Wakfer for instance think that L-Carnosine is not orally effective, he sells some modified form (even more expensive).

edit: added little scale icon thingy

EDIT: Updated the poll after reading the taurine depletion issue here http://www.imminst.o...cts-t16324.html

Edited by edward, 13 May 2008 - 02:41 AM.

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#2 Cognitivespeed

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:27 AM

This has bothered me, and I am getting ready to reorder L-Carnosine, I take beta-alanine also and I am wondering if the L-Carnosine is really worth the cost. Some people, Paul Wakfer for instance think that L-Carnosine is not orally effective, he sells some modified form (even more expensive).

edit: added little scale icon thingy



L-Carnosine hands down. I've taken blood tests before and during Carnosine and beta alanine, only during carnosine did my blood tests jump up.

L-Carnosine is orally effective as show by the research and clinical use of it by Michael Chez a neurologist.
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#3 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:30 AM

This has bothered me, and I am getting ready to reorder L-Carnosine, I take beta-alanine also and I am wondering if the L-Carnosine is really worth the cost. Some people, Paul Wakfer for instance think that L-Carnosine is not orally effective, he sells some modified form (even more expensive).

edit: added little scale icon thingy



L-Carnosine hands down. I've taken blood tests before and during Carnosine and beta alanine, only during carnosine did my blood tests jump up.

L-Carnosine is orally effective as show by the research and clinical use of it by Michael Chez a neurologist.


What blood tests are you talking about that "jumped up". Who is Michael Chez. Any links to info research?
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#4 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:36 AM

Supposedly most of the L-Carnosine (a di-peptide of beta-alanine and histidine) is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine in the digestive tract. The small amount of L-Carnosine that does escape this is broken down by carnosinase to once again beta-alanine and histidine. So the only way to overcome this is to take whopping doses.
but....

Beta-Alanine is the rate limiting factor in the synthesis of L-Carnosine (unless you are on a low protein diet you have enough histidine) and Beta-Alanine supplementation has been shown to after chronic supplementation to boost L-Carnosine levels in muscle tissue by an amazing 80%. Granted this is muscle tissue but it stands to reason that the same is true in other areas of the body as well.
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#5 Cognitivespeed

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:39 AM

Supposedly most of the L-Carnosine (a di-peptide of beta-alanine and histidine) is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine in the digestive tract. The small amount of L-Carnosine that does escape this is broken down by carnosinase to once again beta-alanine and histidine. So the only way to overcome this is to take whopping doses.
but....

Beta-Alanine is the rate limiting factor in the synthesis of L-Carnosine (unless you are on a low protein diet you have enough histidine) and Beta-Alanine supplementation has been shown to after chronic supplementation to boost L-Carnosine levels in muscle tissue by an amazing 80%. Granted this is muscle tissue but it stands to reason that the same is true in other areas of the body as well.



Any links to support your above statements as fact?
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#6 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:57 AM

Supposedly most of the L-Carnosine (a di-peptide of beta-alanine and histidine) is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine in the digestive tract. The small amount of L-Carnosine that does escape this is broken down by carnosinase to once again beta-alanine and histidine. So the only way to overcome this is to take whopping doses.
but....

Beta-Alanine is the rate limiting factor in the synthesis of L-Carnosine (unless you are on a low protein diet you have enough histidine) and Beta-Alanine supplementation has been shown to after chronic supplementation to boost L-Carnosine levels in muscle tissue by an amazing 80%. Granted this is muscle tissue but it stands to reason that the same is true in other areas of the body as well.



Any links to support your above statements as fact?


"the Harris study" the abstract mentions 65% increase in muscle carnosine after 4 weeks I can't read the pdf but from another source the total increase after 10-12 weeks was 80%
http://www.springerl...71337168464032/



Good summary here even though these people have a commercial interest. Their references seem to be in order. Besides this is not new info, many people on this board have mentioned the same sorts of thing, and many people on here take Beta-Alanine instead of Carnosine
http://www.beta-alanine.net/

the references for the above page found at the bottom of the page

• Hoffman J, Ratamess N, Kang J, Mangine G, Faigenbaum A, Stout J. (2006) Effect of Creatine and ß-Alanine Supplementation on Performance and Endocrine Responses in Strength/Power Athletes. IJSNEM, 16(4).
• Zoeller RF, Stout JR, O'kroy JA, Torok DJ, Mielke M.(2006)
Effects of 28 days of beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on aerobic power, ventilatory and lactate thresholds, and time to exhaustion. Amino Acids, 1-6
• Harris RC, Tallon MJ Dunnett M, Boobis L, Coakley J, Kim HJ, Fallowfield JL, Hill CA, Sale C, Wise JA (2006) The absorption of orally supplied §-alanine and its effect on muscle carnosine synthesis in human vastus lateralis. Amino Acids, March
• Harris RC, Ponte J, Sale C, Jones GA, Kim HJ, Wise JA. Effect of 14 and 28 days B-Alanine(Carnosyn™) supplementation on isometric endurance of the knee extensors.Univeristy of Chichester, Chichester UK; Korea National Sport Univeristy, Seoul Korea. Poster Presentation
• Harris RC, Marlin DJ, Dunnett M, Snow DH, Hultman E ((1990) Muscle buffering capacity & dipeptide content in the thoroughbred horse, greyhound dog & man. Comparative Biochem Physiol 97A: 249-251
• Harris, R C.; Hill, C; Wise, J A.(2003) Effect of combined Beta-Alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on exercise performance.Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise:Volume 35(5) Supplement 1May 2003p S218
• Harris RC, Dunnett M, Greenhaff PL(1998) Carnosine & Taurine contents in individual fibers in human vastus lateralis muscles. J Sports Sci 16: 639-643.
• Hill CA, Harris RC, Kim HJ, Harris BD, Sale C, Boobis LH, Kim CK, Wise JA (2006) Influence of b- alanine supplementation on skeletal muscle carnosine concentrations and high intensity cycling capacity Amino Acids.
• Hill C. A., R. C. Harris, H. J. Kim, L. Boobis, C. Sale, J. A. Wise. "The effect of beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on muscle composition and exercise performance." (Presented at the American College of Sports Medicine Annual conference, 2005, Nashville.)
• Kim HJ, Kim CK, Lee YW, Harris RC, Sale C, Harris DB, and Wise JA (2006) The effect of a supplement containing β-alanine on muscle carnosine synthesis and exercise capacity, during 12 wk combined endurance and weight training. J. Inter. Soc. Sports Nutr. 3(1): S9
• Stout JR, Cramer JT, Mielke M, O'Kroy J, Torok D, and Zoeller RF (2006) Effects of 28 days of beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on the physical working capacity at neuromuscular fatigue threshold J Strength Cond Res (in press)
• Stout JR, Cramer JT, Zoeller RF, Torok D, Costa P, Hoffman JR (2006) Effects of beta-alanine supplementation on the onset of neuromuscular fatigue and ventilatory threshold in women. Amino Acids. Nov 30
• Suzuki Y, Ito O, Takahashi H, Takamatsu K (2004) The effect of sprint training on skeletal muscle carnosine in humans. Intl J Sport Health Sci 2: 105-110.
• Suzuki Y, Ito O, Mukai N, Takahashi H, Takamatsu K (2002) High Level of Skeletal Muscle Carnosine Contributes to the Latter Half of Exercise Performance during 30-s Maximal Cycle Ergometer Sprinting. Jpn J Physiol 52:199-205.
• Bate-Smith EC (1938) The buffering of muscle in rigor: protein, phosphate and carnosine. J Physiol 92: 336- 343,1938.
• Gulewitsch W, Amiradzibi S. Uber das carnosine, eine neue organische Bases des Fleischextraktes, Ber Disch Ges 1900; 33:1902-4.
• Barger G, Tutin F. Carnosine, constitution and synthesis. Biochem J 1918; 12: 4
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#7 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:40 AM

Updated poll to include the issue of people dropping Beta-Alanine/Carnosine due to the potential issue of Taurine Depletion
This issue reminds me of the NAC problem and right heart failure.... I wonder how many other of our "staple" life extending supplements have undiscovered problems


http://www.imminst.o...cts-t16324.html
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#8 rubegoldberg

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 03:03 AM

why not throw histidine into the mix. as fortune would have it, sci.life-extension has a timely and interesting thread related to this topic.

http://groups.google...6cfc43f5?hl=en#

there are a few other threads referencing histidine and carnosine as well as BA in SLE that may help cloud the issue for you.

e.g. http://groups.google...dine carnosine#
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#9 caston

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 10:22 AM

Did you guys also know that BA is produced by candida albicans and high levels are a sign of a candida infection?


http://www.bodyecolo..._in_taurine.php

Some studies even suggest that BA use has neurotoxic effects:

http://grande.nal.us...p;therow=102021

Edited by caston, 13 May 2008 - 10:26 AM.

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#10 edward

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 02:50 PM

Did you guys also know that BA is produced by candida albicans and high levels are a sign of a candida infection?


http://www.bodyecolo..._in_taurine.php

Some studies even suggest that BA use has neurotoxic effects:

http://grande.nal.us...p;therow=102021


The neurotoxic effects mentioned in that study refer to the Taurine issue, note also that study is in cats, who can't synthesize their own Taurine

Edited by edward, 13 May 2008 - 02:52 PM.

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#11 health_nutty

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 06:24 PM

Taurine and Beta-Alanine compete for the same receptor but when dosed in sane amounts one doesn't block the other's bioavailability. I researched this before and found the human studies aleviated my fears. Here is one:

Influence of beta-alanine supplementation on skeletal muscle carnosine concentrations and high intensity cycling capacity.
Hill CA, Harris RC, Kim HJ, Harris BD, Sale C, Boobis LH, Kim CK, Wise JA.

School of Sports, Exercise & Health Sciences, University of Chichester, Chichester, UK.

Muscle carnosine synthesis is limited by the availability of beta-alanine. Thirteen male subjects were supplemented with beta-alanine (CarnoSyn) for 4 wks, 8 of these for 10 wks. A biopsy of the vastus lateralis was obtained from 6 of the 8 at 0, 4 and 10 wks. Subjects undertook a cycle capacity test to determine total work done (TWD) at 110% (CCT(110%)) of their maximum power (Wmax). Twelve matched subjects received a placebo. Eleven of these completed the CCT(110%) at 0 and 4 wks, and 8, 10 wks. Muscle biopsies were obtained from 5 of the 8 and one additional subject. Muscle carnosine was significantly increased by +58.8% and +80.1% after 4 and 10 wks beta-alanine supplementation. Carnosine, initially 1.71 times higher in type IIa fibres, increased equally in both type I and IIa fibres. No increase was seen in control subjects. Taurine was unchanged by 10 wks of supplementation. 4 wks beta-alanine supplementation resulted in a significant increase in TWD (+13.0%); with a further +3.2% increase at 10 wks. TWD was unchanged at 4 and 10 wks in the control subjects. The increase in TWD with supplementation followed the increase in muscle carnosine.
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#12 krillin

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 09:04 PM

why not throw histidine into the mix.

It's a pro-oxidant.

Basic Clin Pharmacol Toxicol. 2005 May;96(5):352-60.
Antioxidant properties of carnosine re-evaluated with oxidizing systems involving iron and copper ions.
Mozdzan M, Szemraj J, Rysz J, Nowak D.
Department of Experimental and Clinical Physiology, Medical University of Lodz, 6/8 Mazowiecka St, 92-215 Lodz, Poland.

Carnosine has antioxidant properties and is efficient in the treatment of chemically-induced inflammatory lesions in animals. However, some studies question its biological significance as antioxidant and show lack of protection and even pro-oxidant effect of carnosine in systems containing nickel and iron ions. The ability of carnosine to: (1) reduce Fe(3+) into Fe(2+) ions; (2) protect deoxyribose from oxidation by Fe(2+)-, Fe(3+)-, and Cu(2+)-H(2)O(2)-EDTA systems; (3) protect DNA from damage caused by Cu(2+)-, and Fe(2+)-H(2)O(2)-ascorbate systems; (4) inhibit HClO- and H(2)O(2)-peroxidase-induced luminol dependent chemiluminescence was tested in vitro. At concentration 10 mM carnosine reduced 16.6+/-0.5 nmoles of Fe(3+) into Fe(2+) ions during 20 min. incubation and added to plasma significantly increased its ferric reducing ability. Inhibition of deoxyribose oxidation by 10 mM carnosine reached 56+/-5, 40+/-11 and 30+/-11% for systems containing Fe(2+), Fe(3+) and Cu(2+) ions, respectively. The damage to DNA was decreased by 84+/-9 and 61+/-14% when Cu(2+)-, and Fe(2+)-H(2)O(2)-ascorbate systems were applied. Combination of 10 mM histidine with alanine or histidine alone (but not alanine) enhanced 1.3 and 2.3 times (P<0.05) the DNA damage induced by Fe(2+)-H(2)O(2)-ascorbate. These amino acids added to 10 mM carnosine decreased 3.1-fold (P<0.05) its protective effect on DNA. Carnosine at 10 and 20 mM decreased by more than 90% light emission from both chemiluminescent systems. It is concluded that carnosine has significant antioxidant activity especially in the presence of transition metal ions. However, hydrolysis of carnosine with subsequent histidine release may be responsible for some pro-oxidant effects.

PMID: 15853927
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#13 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 11:55 PM

I'm beginning to get turned off to the entire "stop glycation with individual amino acids" idea. We've never seen any results in a human trial. Why do we bother when agents like benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, aminoguanadine have actually been proven? If you eat a substantial amount of protein, you already have alot of these amino acids circulating around anyway.
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#14 caston

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 02:22 AM

I'm beginning to get turned off to the entire "stop glycation with individual amino acids" idea. We've never seen any results in a human trial. Why do we bother when agents like benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, aminoguanadine have actually been proven? If you eat a substantial amount of protein, you already have alot of these amino acids circulating around anyway.


While aminoguanadine lowers LDL and triglycerides it can have some bad side effects in terms flu-like or even auto-immune like symptons and can actually lead to damaged kidney and liver function.

...while the benefit attritbutable to aminoguanadine was dubious, the risks associated with the drug seemed undeniable. Along with signs of an overactive (and possbly damaged) liver and strange flu-like symptoms that went away when they stopped using the drug, a few people taking aminoguanidine developed signs in their blood of an autoimmune disorder, which- in three patients taking the higher dose - was associated with a form of highly inflammatory kidney disease that leads to complete loss of kidney function in a matter of just weeks or months. Two of the three patients who developed the disease progressed to end-stage kidney failure.
Fortunately, this apparent side effect was caught early in the trial, and the safety committee accordingly introduced a monitoring program, after which no one was allowed to progress into clinical signs of the disease.



I'm just quoting ending aging here. Which side of the debate should assume the burden of proof as far as aminoguanadine goes?

This is getting off-topic but I think most of us need consider our overall strategy more. Tweaking metabolism is such a messy business.

Edited by caston, 14 May 2008 - 02:33 AM.

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#15 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 03:24 PM

My point was not to recommend everyone start taking aminoguanidine, but to remind people that real anti-glycation agents exist that produce real results in real human trials. Benfotiamine and pyridoxamine are less controversial for overall health than aminoguanidine.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 14 May 2008 - 03:25 PM.

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#16 edward

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 07:43 PM

I'm beginning to get turned off to the entire "stop glycation with individual amino acids" idea. We've never seen any results in a human trial. Why do we bother when agents like benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, aminoguanadine have actually been proven? If you eat a substantial amount of protein, you already have alot of these amino acids circulating around anyway.


I am beginning to lean this way as well. I am not reordering carnosine, I will use up my beta alanine but as healthnutty mentioned "at sane doses" make sure I supplement taurine at night (it makes me sleepy). When my beta alanine runs out I probably wont re order it. I take benfotiamine, I might get some pyridoxamine (wish there was a source for powder, say 50 grams or so, I really hate to order capsules which are usually a waste of money)
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#17 health_nutty

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:13 PM

I'm beginning to get turned off to the entire "stop glycation with individual amino acids" idea. We've never seen any results in a human trial. Why do we bother when agents like benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, aminoguanadine have actually been proven? If you eat a substantial amount of protein, you already have alot of these amino acids circulating around anyway.


I am beginning to lean this way as well. I am not reordering carnosine, I will use up my beta alanine but as healthnutty mentioned "at sane doses" make sure I supplement taurine at night (it makes me sleepy). When my beta alanine runs out I probably wont re order it. I take benfotiamine, I might get some pyridoxamine (wish there was a source for powder, say 50 grams or so, I really hate to order capsules which are usually a waste of money)


Why not benfotiamine? It seems to have more research behind it.
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#18 edward

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:15 PM

I'm beginning to get turned off to the entire "stop glycation with individual amino acids" idea. We've never seen any results in a human trial. Why do we bother when agents like benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, aminoguanadine have actually been proven? If you eat a substantial amount of protein, you already have alot of these amino acids circulating around anyway.


I am beginning to lean this way as well. I am not reordering carnosine, I will use up my beta alanine but as healthnutty mentioned "at sane doses" make sure I supplement taurine at night (it makes me sleepy). When my beta alanine runs out I probably wont re order it. I take benfotiamine, I might get some pyridoxamine (wish there was a source for powder, say 50 grams or so, I really hate to order capsules which are usually a waste of money)


Why not benfotiamine? It seems to have more research behind it.


I take benfotiamine (and will continue to take it) I might also get some pyridoxamine also if I can find a cheap powder form just for extra protection.
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#19 mitkat

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:17 PM

I got my hands on some beta-alanine a few weeks ago, and have been having very strong reactions to it, fairly negative. The tingles and flushing are totally overwhelming, even at a low dose (eyeballing a few hundred mg's). Looks like microdoses is what I'll be doing for a while, and alternating with carnosine every other day until it runs out.

I'm pretty torn with this evidence, but have been taking 500mg carnosine for some time, what I considered to be a maintenance dose as a vegetarian.
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#20 caston

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 07:41 AM

One of the side effects I noticed with BA use was particularly bad breath. My theory is that there is another bacteria that converts BA into a smelly gas like hydrogen sulfide.


How does benfotiamine work again?

I think the big problem with trying to stop AGE's from forming is that you are also interfering with other metabolic processes. It's kind of like treating everyone like a potential criminal in order to prevent crime. You probably do more harm to society than the actual crime would have done and you don't even manage to stop the crime or you just shift people to different ones or the police themselves are just as much subject to corruption.

Proteins should be innocent until proven glycated :)

As for benfotiamine I can't help but wonder if there are longevity genes that benfotiamine will methylate.

Edited by caston, 15 May 2008 - 07:50 AM.

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#21 emitecaps

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 06:36 PM

I got my hands on some beta-alanine a few weeks ago, and have been having very strong reactions to it, fairly negative. The tingles and flushing are totally overwhelming, even at a low dose (eyeballing a few hundred mg's). Looks like microdoses is what I'll be doing for a while, and alternating with carnosine every other day until it runs out.

I'm pretty torn with this evidence, but have been taking 500mg carnosine for some time, what I considered to be a maintenance dose as a vegetarian.


I had to exceed a dose of over 2.5g of beta alanine to induce paresthesia. I found taking it with carbohydrates significantly blunted the effect and after maybe 10 days of use the tingling completely subsided. Unless I take 4g of beta alanine on an empty stomach I won't experience any paresthesia and even then it's only minor.

I did use carnosine at 1g/day and found it to be ineffective at least in regards to hydrogen buffering. 4g split into 2-4 doses provides noticeable buffering though I cannot comment on potential AGE breaking. As others have stated there are better alternatives to stop AGEs. I do hope that beta alanine is converted to carnosine in other tissues though and can elicit some effect on AGE.

Carnosine is likely a waste due to bioavailability issues and given the cost I feel it's better to supplement with beta-alanine. But this is mostly for the hydrogen buffering than anything else.
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#22 lbarber4

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 05:46 AM

I got my hands on some beta-alanine a few weeks ago, and have been having very strong reactions to it, fairly negative. The tingles and flushing are totally overwhelming, even at a low dose (eyeballing a few hundred mg's). Looks like microdoses is what I'll be doing for a while, and alternating with carnosine every other day until it runs out.

I'm pretty torn with this evidence, but have been taking 500mg carnosine for some time, what I considered to be a maintenance dose as a vegetarian.


The tingling/flushing effect subside after continuous use... You could also purchase a product such as Millenium Sports Carnage, or AEN Intraxcell and you shouldn't receive the tingling effect...

I've taken 10 grams of beta-alanine on a daily basis split up into equal doses pre-meals... But I use beta-alanine as a performance enhancement, although the research on this debateable if it does anything for strength or for performance... Any who, try taking the beta-alanine pre-meal or with some carbs as suggested above...

Edited by lbarber4, 17 May 2008 - 07:44 AM.

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#23 lbarber4

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 05:57 AM

Also, I'm surprised no one mentions products like this here...

MAN Body Octane

http://www.bodybuild...e/man/body.html

It's too bad Androgenic or Dinoii do not post here... Some of you guys might know who they are depending on if you lurk any other forums...
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#24 Opelousas Cajun

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 08:26 PM

O.K. Ladies & Gentlemen.... I need some 'layman's advice'.
As a bicyclist, I ride about 110 - 140 mile/week; 12 months/year, and I read an article on amino acid L-carnosine as being a protectant for the skin. About 3 months ago, I began taking L-carnosine; 500mg, 2xday, then after 3 weeks, I reduced it to only 500mg first thing in the am (empty stomach). The reaction that I noticed after about 4 weeks, was that my 'balance' had greatly improved. Clarification here: I don't/didn't have any issues with balance on the bike; just lost my 'stationary' balance while standing still about the age of 61; having to steady myself when exiting the shower to towel off and almost walking in a staggering motion when walking down a hallway, etc., etc. If I were standing, you could push me over with only a light nudge of your two fingers...Again, after 4 weeks of the L-carnosine, I no longer have any issues with my balance and am convinced that the L-c is responsible as this is the only new supplement that I've added in the last 6 months. I'll be 68 in September and am enjoying the 'new' me.....I've also noticed a recovery in my left leg, which was affected by a case of Sciatica...the left-calf lost mass, but has since regained the mass to 'almost' (~85-90%) equal the right-calf (my dominat side). The big toe on my left foot was virtually immovable without using my hands; now I can move it in 1/2" ranges, up & down..
NOW!!!... What are the downsides of taking this AA?? I already take a regiment of Vitamins/Minerals/Herbs (Taurine as well at night) due to my cycling activities...Can you explain the cons in 'layman's language'???
btw: I already use a very good Sunblock, so if L-c benefits the skin, so much the better ;)
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#25 niner

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 05:23 AM

NOW!!!... What are the downsides of taking this AA?? I already take a regiment of Vitamins/Minerals/Herbs (Taurine as well at night) due to my cycling activities...Can you explain the cons in 'layman's language'???
btw: I already use a very good Sunblock, so if L-c benefits the skin, so much the better ;)

Damn! That's a really impressive report, O.C. If you are only on 500mg/day of carnosine now and still maintaining the improvements I would not stop taking it. There are lots of people taking a gram a day or more, and I've never heard of a problem caused by it. The Cons for carnosine are theoretical; we've seen in abstracts posted in this thread that large doses of beta-alanine can cause taurine depletion and brain damage in cats, who can not synthesize their own taurine. We've seen similar large doses of beta-alanine reduce the taurine level in the heart muscle of old rats. In the same paper, they said that taurine supplementation increased the taurine level in the heart muscle of old rats. In both these papers, they used beta-alanine, not carnosine. Beta-alanine is a breakdown product of carnosine, but not all of it breaks down. The amount of beta-alanine that the cats and rats got, 5 and 3% in their drinking water, would correspond to a human taking about 5 or 3 grams of beta alanine a day, if you only drink one litre. If the animals are drinking more water, which they may well be, then those doses would only go up. From 500mg of carnosine, you can only get 197mg of beta alanine, and that's if all of the carnosine hydrolyzes, which it doesn't. That's 1/15 or 1/25 of the relative dose the rats and cats got, using conservative assumptions, meaning that really it's probably less than that. Since you are also supplementing taurine, I don't think you have a thing to worry about. I'm glad I sat down and looked a little harder at this question, because I was having some reservations about my own carnosine use. I'm not worried any more now, and will continue to take it. I've recently picked up some taurine though; no harm in a little of that.

Edited by niner, 16 June 2008 - 05:32 AM.

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#26 krillin

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 08:00 PM

Just to nit pick, cats do have the ability to synthesize taurine, but it is totally inadequate for their needs.

http://jn.nutrition....print/108/5/773
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#27 meursault

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 02:05 AM

Seeing this bumped on the thread listing, does anyone have any new perspectives on the safety of beta-alanine vs l-carnosine?
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#28 NDM

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:08 PM

Seeing this bumped on the thread listing, does anyone have any new perspectives on the safety of beta-alanine vs l-carnosine?


Also a question: are there items that inhibit carnosine absorbtion? Is it OK to take it with food and together with all the other supplements or is it a "frail" supplement that needs special care? (such as ALCAR or EGCG)
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#29 niner

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 05:17 AM

Also a question: are there items that inhibit carnosine absorbtion? Is it OK to take it with food and together with all the other supplements or is it a "frail" supplement that needs special care? (such as ALCAR or EGCG)

It normally comes with food (meat), but considering how expensive it is, I'd rather not waste it by impeding absorption with a bunch of food. I take it before meals; ideally 20-30 minutes or even more, but realistically, that time is sometimes trimmed down to an insignificant minute or two. I'm not going to sit around and digest supplements while everyone else is eating and my dinner is getting cold. I do take carnosine with "everything else"; I can't think of any harmful interactions it would have with the other typical supplements that I take.
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#30 bdelfin

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 12:01 AM

I can't find the reference right now, but a paper I read found greatly improved uptake of carnosine when taken with Vitamin E. The equivalent amount for humans was estimated to be around 50 IU.
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