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Pycnogenol and Verbal Fluency


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#1 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:04 PM


Hello,

Recently I bought a bottle of pycnogenol after reading of it's numerous benefits. After taking it, I noticed an IMMEDIATE increase in verbal fluency, mood, cognition and processing speed. I have never found any official reports of this substance acting as a bonafide Nootropic, however my own personal experience has confirmed that it does indeed enhance the (my) mind.
I am curious if anyone here has had similar results with this product. It says it's derived from a pine tree. I only paid $7 for it at a health food store.
Thanks guys.
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#2 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:07 PM

http://www.lifespani...n=communication



Here's something I found.

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#3 mentatpsi

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 12:03 AM

Hello,

Recently I bought a bottle of pycnogenol after reading of it's numerous benefits. After taking it, I noticed an IMMEDIATE increase in verbal fluency, mood, cognition and processing speed. I have never found any official reports of this substance acting as a bonafide Nootropic, however my own personal experience has confirmed that it does indeed enhance the (my) mind.
I am curious if anyone here has had similar results with this product. It says it's derived from a pine tree. I only paid $7 for it at a health food store.
Thanks guys.


how much did you take of it?

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#4 Athanasios

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 12:32 AM

Immediate effects like those described would mean:

A. Placebo

or

B. Not a pine bark pill.

Edited by cnorwood, 09 June 2008 - 12:33 AM.

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#5 mikeinnaples

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 12:42 PM

Knowing what I know about pycnogenol and the fits hand experience with the sugar cravings it was giving me at 400mg/day, I wouldn't be so quick to rule out a nootropic effect as a by product of its tinkering with glucose depending on how much they took. I wouldn't say it was a desired effect though, heh.

#6 dumbdumb

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 05:02 PM

I don't think I understand you. You're saying that because he took pycnogenol, had sugar cravings, and consumed sugary foods, that he got a sugar rush, which resulted in his perceived nootropic effects?

#7 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 02:56 AM

I didn't have any sugar cravings, nor did I eat anything sweet- I am on a Ketogenic diet.

#8 Shepard

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 03:25 AM

Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2006 Sep;15(6):329-35. Epub 2006 May 13.
Treatment of ADHD with French maritime pine bark extract, Pycnogenol.
Trebatická J, Kopasová S, Hradecná Z, Cinovský K, Skodácek I, Suba J, Muchová J, Zitnanová I, Waczulíková I, Rohdewald P, Duracková Z.

Dept. of Child Psychiatry, Child University Hospital, Faculty of Medicine, Comenius University, Limbová 1, 833 40 Bratislava, Slovakia.

Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the most common psychiatric disorder in children. Pycnogenol, an extract from the bark of the French maritime pine, consisting of phenolic acids, catechin, taxifolin and procyanidins, has shown improvement of ADHD in case reports and in an open study. Aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of Pycnogenol on ADHD symptoms. Sixty-one children were supplemented with 1 mg/kg/day Pycnogenol or placebo over a period of 4 weeks in a randomised, placebo-controlled, doubleblind study. Patients were examined at start of trial, 1 month after treatment and 1 month after end of treatment period by standard questionnaires: CAP (Child Attention Problems) teacher rating scale, Conner's Teacher Rating Scale (CTRS), the Conner's Parent Rating Scale (CPRS) and a modified Wechsler Intelligence Scale for children. Results show that 1-month Pycnogenol administration caused a significant reduction of hyperactivity, improves attention and visual-motoric coordination and concentration of children with ADHD. In the placebo group no positive effects were found. One month after termination of Pycnogenol administration a relapse of symptoms was noted. Our results point to an option to use Pycnogenol as a natural supplement to relieve ADHD symptoms of children.

PMID: 16699814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#9 mentatpsi

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 03:55 AM

wow, excellent find shepard :p

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#10 dumbdumb

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 05:30 PM

Alpha, could you please tell us the brand and dosage of the pycnogenol that you used? Thanks. :p

#11 mikeinnaples

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 06:34 PM

I don't think I understand you. You're saying that because he took pycnogenol, had sugar cravings, and consumed sugary foods, that he got a sugar rush, which resulted in his perceived nootropic effects?



Yeah I dont think you understand me. I am not saying he had a sugar high.

What I am saying is that if it does infact affect glucose as some studies state .....think about how tinkering with glucose levels can have a nootropic/perceived nootropic effect.

#12 nameless

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 06:40 PM

What I find the most interesting here isn't the supposed benefit, but the fact he got a bottle of Pycnogenol for $7. Low dose? Pine bark and not branded Pycnogenol? A bottle of 60 capsules, 100 mg, costs me $30, and that's pretty much the cheapest I've seen anywhere.

#13 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 02:58 AM

THANK YOU for the post, Shepard.

As for the stuff I got, it was in the discount bin at a local health food store, orange bottle, company name called "NOW". 30 mg per tablet.
I'm buying more.

#14 VampIyer

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 09:10 AM

Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2006 Sep;15(6):329-35. Epub 2006 May 13.
Treatment of ADHD with French maritime pine bark extract, Pycnogenol.
Trebatická J, Kopasová S, Hradecná Z, Cinovský K, Skodácek I, Suba J, Muchová J, Zitnanová I, Waczulíková I, Rohdewald P, Duracková Z.

Dept. of Child Psychiatry, Child University Hospital, Faculty of Medicine, Comenius University, Limbová 1, 833 40 Bratislava, Slovakia.

Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the most common psychiatric disorder in children. Pycnogenol, an extract from the bark of the French maritime pine, consisting of phenolic acids, catechin, taxifolin and procyanidins, has shown improvement of ADHD in case reports and in an open study. Aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of Pycnogenol on ADHD symptoms. Sixty-one children were supplemented with 1 mg/kg/day Pycnogenol or placebo over a period of 4 weeks in a randomised, placebo-controlled, doubleblind study. Patients were examined at start of trial, 1 month after treatment and 1 month after end of treatment period by standard questionnaires: CAP (Child Attention Problems) teacher rating scale, Conner's Teacher Rating Scale (CTRS), the Conner's Parent Rating Scale (CPRS) and a modified Wechsler Intelligence Scale for children. Results show that 1-month Pycnogenol administration caused a significant reduction of hyperactivity, improves attention and visual-motoric coordination and concentration of children with ADHD. In the placebo group no positive effects were found. One month after termination of Pycnogenol administration a relapse of symptoms was noted. Our results point to an option to use Pycnogenol as a natural supplement to relieve ADHD symptoms of children.

PMID: 16699814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Shepard, are you implying that Alpha-Frequency has ADHD? :~

...well at least I thought it was funny

I was actually thinking about experimenting with a slightly higher dose of pycnogenol (or something similar) at the right times.

#15 mikeinnaples

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 07:02 PM

What I find the most interesting here isn't the supposed benefit, but the fact he got a bottle of Pycnogenol for $7. Low dose? Pine bark and not branded Pycnogenol? A bottle of 60 capsules, 100 mg, costs me $30, and that's pretty much the cheapest I've seen anywhere.



BAC sells generic pine bark cheap, not sure if it has desired effects though.

http://www.easycart....dants.html#2051

#16 healthnewbie

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 03:44 PM

Is it possible to get accurate information on chemical composition from BAC on it? i would like to know how much pycnogenol is actually present in it.

Also, can people post where they get their pycnogenol from. It would be good to have a cost comparison and even perhaps a chart like resveratrol

#17 mikeinnaples

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 07:54 PM

Is it possible to get accurate information on chemical composition from BAC on it? i would like to know how much pycnogenol is actually present in it.

Also, can people post where they get their pycnogenol from. It would be good to have a cost comparison and even perhaps a chart like resveratrol



BAC is a 90% PCO extract. Pycnogenol is a patented brand name. Whether or not the two come from the same tree with the same properties .....I don't know.

#18 healthnewbie

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

I am confused; what do you mean by brand name? A lot of distributor seems to be selling product called "pycnogenol". They even list it as a component in their supplement fact. For example, I called country life to ask how much pycnogenol is there in their product "resveratrol plus", which has pine bark extract. They said NONE. Country life has another separate product called pycnogenol, also from pine bark extract.

Is pycnogenol something that you get if you process pine bark extract in certain way? This is all confusing.

#19 Alpha-Frequency

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 02:45 AM

Just grow your own pine bark tree- it's easy.
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#20 mentatpsi

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Posted 15 June 2008 - 03:17 AM

i tried it today, must say interesting results. I have problems accessing my native language due to my dedication of learning English when i was younger, it's stored in a manner that i can understand it, but as far as speaking it i have issues. I found myself more capable of speaking it, a fractional improvement but still something, in addition to an interesting consciousness that resulted as well. It felt very similar to making my native language prevalent. I'll track improvements and see if anything is substantial, so far results could easily be placebo or due to other nootropics i've been taking recently.

#21 matix7

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 10:05 PM

http://www.luckyvita...ite=google_base

$8 for 30 x30mg

#22 medievil

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 05:06 PM

this extract has also found to be effective for adhd, gotta try it

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#23 mentatpsi

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 06:55 PM

i'm not noticing anything particularly interesting about it that i couldn't mark up as placebo or related to other causes.

Anyone have a monograph on this guy?

#24 abelard lindsay

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Posted 19 June 2008 - 04:14 PM

I bought some and tried it. Only interesting effect was that my sense of touch seemed noticeably more sensitive.

#25 abelard lindsay

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:51 AM

I bought some and tried it. Only interesting effect was that my sense of touch seemed noticeably more sensitive.

Followup, Second day taking this the same sense of touch improvements were noticeable.

#26 mentatpsi

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:24 AM

i find that a 200 mg dosage gives much more observable effects than a 100 mg dosage.

#27 luminous

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:32 AM

Not to imply that Alpha-Frequency is old...

New Study: Pycnogenol® Improves Memory in Elderly
http://www.reuters.c...008 PRN20080317

'..."The antioxidant Pycnogenol® had beneficial
cognitive and biochemical effects for elderly individuals. Participants in the
Pycnogenol® groups showed improvement relative to the controls with the
effects becoming evident from the second to third months of the Pycnogenol®
treatment."'



#28 mentatpsi

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:47 AM

Not to imply that Alpha-Frequency is old...

New Study: Pycnogenol® Improves Memory in Elderly
http://www.reuters.c...008 PRN20080317

'..."The antioxidant Pycnogenol® had beneficial
cognitive and biochemical effects for elderly individuals. Participants in the
Pycnogenol® groups showed improvement relative to the controls with the
effects becoming evident from the second to third months of the Pycnogenol®
treatment."'


wow awesome find... in an effort to find what brand that was i found this page filled with numerous findings on pycnogenol:
http://www.pycnogeno...rch_library.php

for the full pdf:
http://www.pycnogeno...HY V 071024.pdf

#29 guy1985

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 06:19 PM

i have the same effect as the original poster here when i tried it 3 years ago. didn't know if it is placebo but it is too expensive for me to maintance it.

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#30 NDM

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 09:27 PM

i have the same effect as the original poster here when i tried it 3 years ago. didn't know if it is placebo but it is too expensive for me to maintance it.



What caught my eye is:

1. there are two guys corroborating the same anecdotal info - re: nootropic effect
2. there are theoretical grounds to infer a nootropic effect (the ADHD study; similarity to grape seed, etc)
3. it is quite expensive, BUT
4. the putative effect is immediate (but maybe works only for certain types of guys)

Conclusion: it could be used only in situations of high cognitive demand (exam, job interview, lecture, writing a paper), thus saving money (I apply the same policy to SAMe).

Other ideas/qualifications/successes/failures?




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