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Supplements for wound healing


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#1 stephen_b

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 04:19 PM


I'm just coming off of hernia surgery and was wondering if there are any supplements to take or avoid for recovery.

I was told to avoid any substance that is anti-inflammatory like aspirin, ibuprofen, or vitamin E, out of concern I think for bleeding.

I don't know whether there are any supplements on the other hand that speed healing. Thoughts?

StephenB

#2 kismet

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 06:39 PM

This is a very exciting topic in general, probably best suited for the skincare forum. I know there are several classes of substances that can improve cutaneous wound healing, but I don't know whether they help surgical wounds (internal scarrs and other tissues that need to heal?) and if they only improve speed or also quality of healing.  The safety of many such substances is dubious, though, I am not advising to use any of them, because I'm not a doctor. 
The most prominent substances are obviously the anabolic androgenic steroids successfully used in burn care (e.g. Oxandrolone). Either working through anti-catabolic (very high cortisol levels after high degree burns) or anabolic effects in the skin, additionally they help to reduce muscle wasting.
Growth hormones have a similar effect, illegal use by athletes to accelerate recovery after injuries is believed to be wide-spread.
Pretreatment with retinoids has been shown to improve quality of wound healing [1]. Postexposure at least could reduce scarring. On the other hand wouldn't it slightly weaken the skin? Could thining of the epidermis reduce tensile strength of the scars? May be unwanted.

One particular study currently under way cought my interest, it shows how many different substances are considered for burn care (~= wound care). I am eagerly awaiting results. [2]
There are probably many more interventions, I think a hypercaloric diet would be one.

[1] via Medscape: Pretreatment of skin with all-trans retinoic acid (tretinoin) can enhance wound healing. Histological effects of tretinoin demonstrate compaction of the stratum corneum, epidermal acanthosis with correction of atypia, an increase in small vessels, and increased cellularity in the upper dermis. Tretinoin dramatically accelerates wound healing in photodamaged skin (Popp, Klingman, & Stoudemayer, 1995). Pretreatment of skin with topical tretinoin may be beneficial in reducing healing times of patients undergoing electroepilation (Anthony, Miller, & Dinehart, 1991). Pretreatment with topical all-trans retinoic acid (tretinoin) has also reversed impaired wound healing in genetically diabetic mice (Kitano, Yoshimura, Uchida, Sato, & Harii, 2001).

The employment of topical retinoids in wound healing is flourishing. Retinoic acid reverses the inhibitory effects of glucocorticoids on wound healing and expedites the formation of healthy granulation tissue. Pretreatment with tretinoin prior to epidermal injury, such as chemical peeling and dermabrasion, accelerates wound healing. Short-contact tretinoin therapy is a novel modality for treating chronic ulcers and stimulating granulation tissue formation (Paquette, Badiavas, & Falanga, 2001). A comparison of tretinoin, adapalene, and collagenase in an experimental model of wound healing concluded that tretinoin and adapalene contributed to the wound healing process resulting in an enhancement of collagen production, angiogenesis, and granulation tissue formation (Basak et al., 2002).

[2] http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00673309?term=oxandrolone&rank=12

Edited by kismet, 18 December 2008 - 06:40 PM.


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#3 Lufega

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 07:22 PM

How are you copper levels? Low copper is associated with the formation of hernias. I've had 3 so far including a current one. Two are inguinal and one is lumbar. I refuse to get it operated again. I've been using copper/lysine/vitamin c daily for about a month now and the herniation has not come out again. I hope the weakness in the connective tissue will heal on it's own.

As far as would healing, I've read Zinc prevets cheloid formations and speeds wound healing. So does vitamin C. Definitely avoid blood thinning and anti-inflammatories substances as coagulation is your friend right now :-D

#4 balance

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 07:31 PM

I just had my second wisdom tooth removed. Not the most pleasant experience in the world. I researched the wound healing supplements as well, so I might be able to help you out:

Avoid curcumin, resveratrol, lipoic acid, vitamin E, high dose vitamin C (breaks down fibrin/fibrinogen...not good for clotting)

I know that LEF says that bromelain can be used for wound healing, that said, I wouldn't do it, it's a potent anti-inflammatory, and it can break down clots.

I would use raw materials for the body, such as L-glutamine (free form), L-arginine (free base), L-proline, L-lysine, whey protein, maybe some RNA, and a couple of immune boosters potentially. I second the copper.. great mineral. Take some calcium for clotting, make sure you are getting enough iron. Get plenty of natural vitamin A (not talking about carotenoids)


So the message of the day is, eat lots of artery clogging fats and breathe in lots of air pollution haha.

Edited by piet3r, 18 December 2008 - 07:34 PM.


#5 yoyo

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 08:09 PM

Doesn't gotu kola improve blood vessel healing? I might do some research on that.

#6 DukeNukem

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 08:21 PM

Recommend spreading raw (and preferably New Zealand based Manuka) honey on cuts and wounds. I've been doing this and it eliminates inflammation and seems to speed up healing. It's really quite remarkable. There are studies based in New Zealand about this that I'm sure you can look up.

#7 stephen_b

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 12:46 AM

There is a skincare aspect to the issue, since you have to cut the skin to operate on the muscle underneath. I think that the muscle injury is primary and the skin injury secondary though.

Of course, it would be nice to avoid getting hernias in the first place. Maybe my copper was a bit low to begin with. I took 3 mg Cu and a 50 mg Zn today. I'll hold off on the curcumin for the time being until things heal up.

The honey sounds good; doesn't that specific honey also have antibacterial properties?

StephenB

#8 MP11

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 10:50 AM

How are you copper levels? Low copper is associated with the formation of hernias. I've had 3 so far including a current one. Two are inguinal and one is lumbar. I refuse to get it operated again. I've been using copper/lysine/vitamin c daily for about a month now and the herniation has not come out again. I hope the weakness in the connective tissue will heal on it's own.

As far as would healing, I've read Zinc prevets cheloid formations and speeds wound healing. So does vitamin C. Definitely avoid blood thinning and anti-inflammatories substances as coagulation is your friend right now :-D


I have a small umbilical hernia currently in the "watch and wait" stage. I hadn't considered copper until now but upon looking for a supplement I found several forms of copper for sale. Is there a preferred form?

Also, there was a supplement that combined zinc and copper. However, I read that zinc and copper compete for absorption so don't really understand why they would both be in the same supplement (unless someone wanted an equal balance and wasn't trying to boost one).

Edited by mp11, 19 December 2008 - 10:50 AM.


#9 stephen_b

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 02:47 PM

Also, there was a supplement that combined zinc and copper. However, I read that zinc and copper compete for absorption so don't really understand why they would both be in the same supplement (unless someone wanted an equal balance and wasn't trying to boost one).

Searching this forum turned up some recommendations for a 10:1 or 15:1 ratio of Zn to Cu.

There are some studies with contradictory conclusions out there. A 1984 study, "Effect of zinc supplementation on copper status in adult man", found Cu levels reduced Zn (PMID 6486080), but "Zinc supplementation has no effect on lipoprotein metabolism, hemostasis, and putative indices of copper status in healthy men" had a different conclusion (PMID 12835492). The first study used 25 mg of Zn twice daily.
From the first study (PMID 6486080):

The subjects were given either two daily doses of 25 mg zinc or placebo for 6 wk. No significant differences in the plasma copper levels or the ferroxidase activities between the supplemented and control groups could be detected at 2, 4, or 6 wk. Plasma zinc increased and erythrocyte Cu,Zn-superoxide dismutase decreased in the supplemented group, the difference between the groups becoming significant at 6 wk (p less than 0.05). This suggested that the zinc supplements decreased the copper status of the experimental group.

From the second study (PMID 12835492):

The aim of this investigation was to examine the effect of a low level of zinc supplementation, to include dietary intake, at the United States tolerable upper intake level of 40 mg/d upon indicators of lipid metabolism, hemostasis, and copper. Thirty-eight subjects were recruited onto a double-blind placebo-controlled intervention trial and randomly selected to one of two groups. Group 1 took zinc supplements (30 mg/d) for 14 wk followed by copper supplements (3 mg/d) for 8 wk (to counteract adverse effects, if any, of zinc supplementation). A second group took placebo supplements for the full duration of the trial. Estimated dietary zinc intake approximated 10 mg/d. The effect of supplement was analyzed by repeated-measures analysis of variance (anova). Results indicate that no effect of zinc supplementation on putative indices of copper status, lipoprotein metabolism, and markers of hemostasis. These results indicate that short-term low-level zinc supplementation (total intake 40 mg/d) is not detrimental to health.

In the second study, it looks like they factored in an extra 10 mg Zn from dietary sources, and they took measurements at intervals during the study for statistical analysis.

StephenB

#10 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 03:14 PM

Vitamin C and B5 are helpful for wound healing. You may or may not want to use orthomolecular-size doses of these but at least moderate intake would be smart during recovery. Pubmed "vitamin c wound healing" and "b5 wound healing"

#11 HereInTheHole

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 05:45 PM

Curcumin has been shown to speed external wound healing in rats [link]. I've tried it externally and it seemed to help, but I have no baseline for comparison.

For antibacterial applications, xylitol and lactoferrin have been studied.

Edited by NarrativiumX, 19 December 2008 - 05:49 PM.


#12 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:44 PM

Stephen,

stop resveratrol for now (Due to reduced platelet aggregation) it may slow healing, and take Astragaloside IV (Such as Astral Fruit) for a while since it appears it may help increase healing, quite a bit according to Geron:

From Geron (see Fig. 4 images):
See Fig 2 in this patent, it shows "astragaloside iv" telomearse activity against a control in Geron's cream formulation for healing:
http://www.google.co.....conditioning"


A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 December 2008 - 06:48 PM.


#13 geddarkstorm

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 07:54 AM

On the other hand, if you smear resveratrol or grape seed extract on the wound, that is, topical application instead of ingestion, that seems to significantly increase healing (ref)

#14 bgwithadd

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 08:14 AM

There's a big difference between internal and external wounds. You definitely want arnica montana to reduce (internal) scarring and brusing and promote clean healing and many surgeons will reccomend this, and you definitely want to avoid steroids as they will lower your immune system. Possibly leading to death after surgery, but no doctor would prescribe them to a postop patient anyway. Unless your doctor is an insane quack he should have given you a big list of stuff to avoid before surgery, but basically you should eliminate all supplements except those that are certain to help you. Garlic and ginseng (and most herbs in cooking) will boost your immune system so don't shy away from those. No need for pills, just eat foods with them.

#15 kismet

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 12:16 PM

There's a big difference between internal and external wounds. You definitely want arnica montana to reduce (internal) scarring and brusing and promote clean healing and many surgeons will reccomend this, and you definitely want to avoid steroids as they will lower your immune system.

Steroids is medical slang for glucocorticoids (e.g. cortisol, prednisone), right? As far as I know androgens are several orders of magnitude weaker immuno-suppressors, even though they are steroid hormones. If they weren't no one would use them in burn care, in individuals at great risk for infections.

I think resveratrol at some dose slightly inhibits angiogenesis, so it is probably best to stop for now.

Edited by kismet, 23 December 2008 - 11:46 PM.


#16 edward

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 03:42 AM

cissus for all types of healing

I am really impressed with this stuff

#17 Lufega

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 05:11 AM

I forgot to mention Quercetin. My dog was almost killed by, well, my other dog. The fight left him with many wounds and lacerations. The vet had to installs drains to allow the edema to drain. After 2 weeks of no improvement, I gave my dog 1 tablet of 250 mg each quercetin/rutin and continued this for a week. The next day drains were completely dried and within one weeks, most of the serious wounds had closed significantly.

#18 Steve_86

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:50 AM

Bump:

I just came home from hospital today after having an operation to straighten the septum in my nose. Everything went well but its bleeding like crazy and will apparently bleed for the next 1-2 weeks.

Thus far I have stopped my usual regime and now only take 1000mg Vitamin C, 5000IU Vitamin A, some zinc, and some copper (forgot the exact doses). What supplements can I take to accelerate the wound healing and stop the bleeding?

#19 anabelle

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:55 AM

I've had a surgery on my stomach and doc gave me Diabetic-md spray. With a help of it cuts healed very quickly. Now I bought it for my hyperactive kids who can't live a week without a cut:)

#20 bobman

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 01:45 AM

cissus for all types of healing

I am really impressed with this stuff


It's possibly a mutagen, I'd avoid it if possible.

#21 FrankEd

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 12:37 PM

cissus for all types of healing

I am really impressed with this stuff


It's possibly a mutagen, I'd avoid it if possible.


I´m a 60 yr. old man and had suffered a lot of surgeries. My last one was a heart surgery due to a myocardial infarction. When I was 27 I used to play basketball and had a lot of injuries. Recently I wound my arm so bad during a home work that a great scar appears on it. I began to use Arjun (Terminalia Arjuna) for heart disease. Surprisingly all of my external scars and wounds began to heal quickly!!! This is amazing because I´m an old man.
I wrote to a renowned vaidya (ayurvedic pratictioner) in India and he told me that Arjuna used externally can do wonders when applied to injuries or scars. People that know me didn´t believe when I show them my great chest scar where I was "opened" during a heart surgery. The scar becomes a thin line with rose color.

Maybe this happened only with me but who knows?
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#22 Lufega

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 04:32 PM

Maybe this happened only with me but who knows?


Nope. It seems to be the case. The increased turnover of hydroxyproline is interesting. It might help with skin laxity. How much were you using ?

Comparative effect of oral administration and topical application of alcoholic extract of Terminalia arjuna bark on incision and excision wounds in rats.
Rane MM, Mengi SA.

CU Shah College of Pharmacy, SNDT Women's University, Santacruz-west, Mumbai, Maharashtra 400 049, India.


Abstract
The effects of 50% ethanolic extract of the bark Terminalia arjuna and tannins isolated from the bark were studied for wound healing activity in incision and excision wound models, after oral or topical application in form of a hydrogel. The findings revealed a statistically significant increase in the tensile strength of the incision wounds and increase in the percent reduction in wound size of excision wounds as compared to control. However, the topical treatment with tannins was found to be superior in both incision and excision wound studies. The estimated increase in hydroxyproline content of the granulation tissue of the excision wounds indicated rapid collagen turnover thus, leading to rapid healing of the wounds.



#23 bobman

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:07 PM

cissus for all types of healing

I am really impressed with this stuff


It's possibly a mutagen, I'd avoid it if possible.


I´m a 60 yr. old man and had suffered a lot of surgeries. My last one was a heart surgery due to a myocardial infarction. When I was 27 I used to play basketball and had a lot of injuries. Recently I wound my arm so bad during a home work that a great scar appears on it. I began to use Arjun (Terminalia Arjuna) for heart disease. Surprisingly all of my external scars and wounds began to heal quickly!!! This is amazing because I´m an old man.
I wrote to a renowned vaidya (ayurvedic pratictioner) in India and he told me that Arjuna used externally can do wonders when applied to injuries or scars. People that know me didn´t believe when I show them my great chest scar where I was "opened" during a heart surgery. The scar becomes a thin line with rose color.

Maybe this happened only with me but who knows?


Yes Arjuna terminalia is amazing. I used it for a heart problem as well. I'm younger, but initially I was diagnosed with possible ARVD, with a hypertrophic right ventricle seen on echo. I used Arjuna for a month and when I had my MRI my heart looked completely normal. They actually kept me in the machine for an extra hour looking for any signs of the problem.

There is a good study on Arjuna that shows stage IV congestive heart failure patients can be downgraded to stage III after 2 weeks use of arjuna.

I'm very happy it works so well for you. Keep taking it, it is perfectly safe. I'm interested to hear how well it worked for your wound. I did find research showing that it is good for wound healing, but I'm happy to hear that it didn't take a topical application to get this great result. Awesome.

edit: By the way, curcumin and gotu kola increase collagen content, order, hydroxyproline content, dna content, blood supply, and decrease the infiltration by leukocytes and giant cells. Gotu kola has this effect orally as well as topically, but if I recall correctly the studies I've seen only show curcumin's topical effects. That being said there is no reason why it wouldn't work orally as well, just make sure you take it with fats and some pepper.

Edited by deletethisaccount, 24 October 2010 - 05:20 PM.


#24 FrankEd

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:38 AM

Hi Lufega,

Sorry for not responding in time. I was using several brands of Arjunarishta a medicated wine made using Terminalia Arjuna. I´ve used Dabur, Baidyanath, and many others, but the only one that give me incredible results was Divya Arjunarishta from Swami Ramdev medicines. It is an amazing product but unfortunately it is not sold worldwide anymore even in USA.

Now I´m planning to use Arjuna powder extract from Vyas Pharmaceuticals. A vaidya told me that honey will increase Arjuna´s power when take together.
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#25 Lufega

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 06:34 PM

Based on your testimonial Frank, and the study I posted I bought some Arjuna tablets and began using 2 tables, 3 times per day. I was a bit worried about the hypotensive effect but so far this hasn't been a problem for me. Call me crazy, but I already notice an effect on skin suppleness and laxity. It's especially obvious around my saggy double neck. I also noticed a bruise I had in my hand is disappearing faster with Arjuna. The wiki- article on T. arjuna claimed it would do just this. Curcumin never did anything for skin laxity and neither did Gotu kola. GK only produced noticeable weight gain. It's too early to say anything definitive but I'll update this post in a few weeks. I have major problems with loose skin folds around my abdomen and torax. I hope this is the supplement I've been searching for since I'm starting to consider plastic surgery as the only solution.

This plant also has potent anti-aging function. The Drug Ta-65 from Geron Corporation is derived from Terminalia Arjuna.

Interesting..

Edited by Lufega, 31 October 2010 - 06:58 PM.


#26 Logan

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:33 PM

Based on your testimonial Frank, and the study I posted I bought some Arjuna tablets and began using 2 tables, 3 times per day. I was a bit worried about the hypotensive effect but so far this hasn't been a problem for me. Call me crazy, but I already notice an effect on skin suppleness and laxity. It's especially obvious around my saggy double neck. I also noticed a bruise I had in my hand is disappearing faster with Arjuna. The wiki- article on T. arjuna claimed it would do just this. Curcumin never did anything for skin laxity and neither did Gotu kola. GK only produced noticeable weight gain. It's too early to say anything definitive but I'll update this post in a few weeks. I have major problems with loose skin folds around my abdomen and torax. I hope this is the supplement I've been searching for since I'm starting to consider plastic surgery as the only solution.

This plant also has potent anti-aging function. The Drug Ta-65 from Geron Corporation is derived from Terminalia Arjuna.

Interesting..


Are you still noticing benefits since starting Terminalia Arjuna? If so, how confident are you that TA is really improving skin laxity?

#27 Lufega

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:10 AM

Morganator,

It's too soon to tell. But something is definitely happening. I want to give it more time before I get too excited about it as I have before.

#28 Logan

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:42 AM

Morganator,

It's too soon to tell. But something is definitely happening. I want to give it more time before I get too excited about it as I have before.


Cool, definitely keep us posted. I hope it actually is doing something and continues to.

#29 FrankEd

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:50 AM

Morganator,

It's too soon to tell. But something is definitely happening. I want to give it more time before I get too excited about it as I have before.


Cool, definitely keep us posted. I hope it actually is doing something and continues to.


Well, I must say I´m not a big fan of ayurveda, but definitely something really happened with me after use of Arjuna.

As I have cardiac disease and suffered a surgery, my main objective was to find an herb that could alleviate my "angina pectoris" symptoms.

I experienced several brands of Arjunarishta, a medicated wine made with TA, (Dabur, Baidyanath, Zandu, Arya Vaidya Sala, Vaidyaratnam Oushadsala, Dootpapeshwar, and others),

Some of them had an horrible taste, others were very sweet, but the "strongest" product was Divya Arjunarishta.

First I was very stupid and began to take two tablespoons with equal quantity of water.

As a result, I got nosebleeding, signing that the product has strong anticoagulant properties.

But then I had a very bad injury on my right arm doing some homework causing a great and profound scar.

Two weeks after Divya Arjunarishta intake (now only one tablespoon after lunch and dinner), my angina pain had gone and the scar on my arm begin to turn white and close quickly.

Well, after that, I began to read something about it and contact some people in India about TA.

In India most people use Arjuna the ancient way.

They boil Arjuna bark powder (one teaspoon) with 250ml of water, until the liquid becomes half.

Then you can take it warm adding some honey, two times a day preferably after lunch and dinner.

Others say that Arjuna must be taken in the "original way" as Arjun Kwath, but how can one find "original indian cow´s milk"? rsrsrs.

I began to think to myself, what will happen when researchers begin to isolate Arjuna compounds and find all of these incredible products that alleviate heart problems?

I hope they find a pure extract that act as promise cure to all people with CAD problems like me avoiding hard cardiac surgeries.

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#30 DeadMeat

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:45 PM

Based on your testimonial Frank, and the study I posted I bought some Arjuna tablets and began using 2 tables, 3 times per day. I was a bit worried about the hypotensive effect but so far this hasn't been a problem for me. Call me crazy, but I already notice an effect on skin suppleness and laxity. It's especially obvious around my saggy double neck. I also noticed a bruise I had in my hand is disappearing faster with Arjuna. The wiki- article on T. arjuna claimed it would do just this. Curcumin never did anything for skin laxity and neither did Gotu kola. GK only produced noticeable weight gain. It's too early to say anything definitive but I'll update this post in a few weeks. I have major problems with loose skin folds around my abdomen and torax. I hope this is the supplement I've been searching for since I'm starting to consider plastic surgery as the only solution.

This plant also has potent anti-aging function. The Drug Ta-65 from Geron Corporation is derived from Terminalia Arjuna.

Interesting..

TA-65(recently identified as cycloastragenol) is not from Terminalia Arjuna but from Astragalus. I assume the TA there stands for Telomerase Activator. See the huge Astragalus, Astragalocide IV and telomerase thread.

But Terminalia Arjuna is definitely interesting stuff.





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