55 replies to this topic

[MP11]

If you chose "Other reasons" for the last answer, please explain.

Made this while sleep deprived so please forgive any mistakes.

Edit: Fixed the poll.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 22 December 2008 - 03:40 PM.

[pycnogenol]

"Less than .5 mcg daily"

I take .5 mcg (or less) 2 hours prior to bedtime on nightly basis. More than that, and I get a real nasty headache.

Sometimes I'll switch out the melatonin and instead take 50 mg of 5-HTP which helps with my sleep
but on occasion gives me nightmares.

I'm gonna try Jarrow's "TryptoPure" brand of L-Tryptophan and see if that helps me.

Edited by pycnogenol, 21 December 2008 - 04:42 PM.

[Mixter]

Other reasons: I take up to 12mg for immune enhancement when I feel a cold or so approaching, but most typically 3mg. For a good sleep, I guess 0.5mg would suffice. I never had adverse reactions from high dose melatonin other than feeling very relaxed but good the next day.

PMID 19047804:

Quote

Melatonin stimulates the production of progenitor cells for granulocytes and macrophages. It also stimulates the production of natural killer cells and CD4+ cells and inhibits CD8+ cells. The production and release of various cytokines from natural killer cells and T helper lymphocytes are enhanced by melatonin. Melatonin has the potential therapeutic value to enhance immune function in aged individuals.

[StrangeAeons]

I usually take melatonin more to help me get to sleep than for quality of sleep; but I do notice that I seem to need less sleep than taking it if I'm suffering from insomnia.  If I'm already very tired and take it, though, I just end up sleeping a lot longer.  I actually started with 3mg pills (since that's what they carry at the drug store) after I was proscribed Rozerem.  Rozerem knocked the living daylights out of me, but only some of the time; sometimes it wouldn't help me sleep, but make me tired as all get out the next day.  Finally I did my research and got 1mg two-stage release melatonin (the price per dose is something like 1% of what Rozerem costs).  That stuff works like a charm; I don't take it every night, but there are the occasional rough nights I have with all sorts of nasty akithisia and other psych-type issues thanks to psychiatrists giving me way too many meds in my teens.  The melatonin seems to make that all much more bearable.

[jackinbox]

Other reason: falling asleep. Which is different from sleep quality.

[niner]

Am I completely out to lunch on melatonin dosages?  I take half a milligram, approximately, which I get by splitting a 3 mg tablet in quarters and losing a bit in the process.  I can't imagine half a microgram doing anything.  Did the sleep-deprived author of the poll really mean 0.5 mg?  1 mg = 1000 mcg.

[MP11]

niner, on 22-Dec 2008, 12:16 AM, said:

Am I completely out to lunch on melatonin dosages?  I take half a milligram, approximately, which I get by splitting a 3 mg tablet in quarters and losing a bit in the process.  I can't imagine half a microgram doing anything.  Did the sleep-deprived author of the poll really mean 0.5 mg?  1 mg = 1000 mcg.

You're right about .5mcg being the wrong size. Hopefully everyone didn't notice or knew what I ment.

I can't edit the post anymore but mabye a mod. can change .5mcg to 500mcg.

Done.  -Funk

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 22 December 2008 - 03:41 PM.

[pycnogenol]

niner, on 21-Dec 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

Am I completely out to lunch on melatonin dosages? I can't imagine half a microgram doing anything.

Well, a low-strength of melatonin definitely does do the trick for me.

Edited by pycnogenol, 22 December 2008 - 03:41 PM.

[malbecman]

I take several hundred micrograms about 30 minutes before bed and then read until I find myself re-reading the same paragraph over and over.    If I'm having a mentally
busy time (I'm faculty at a large U), I often wake after 3-4 hours of good sleep.  Then I might take a little more (100-200 micrograms) and mediate to help fall back asleep.  I
don't like to take it past 3-4 AM as I find it effects carry over into my morning....

[FunkOdyssey]

Melatonin has a super short half-life of approximately 45 minutes.  Here's a crude look at what happens to your 3mg dose over the period of a few hours:

0:00 - 3mg
0:45 - 1.5mg
1:30 - 750mcg
2:15 - 375mcg
3:00 - 187.5mcg
3:45 - 93.75mcg
4:30 - 46.875mcg

So by the 4 1/2 hour mark, you're down to a concentration of melatonin (from the supplement, I don't know what your endogenous melatonin would be doing) that is probably having no effect.  If you wake up at 3 or 4am after taking 3mg of instant release melatonin, I'm guessing this is the reason.

I always thought some kind of really high quality sustained release formulation would be ideal, something that had real pharmacokinetic data behind it, to produce consistent blood levels through the night.  I also worry that the super unnaturally high melatonin concentration you produce with a 3mg instant release supplement might desensitize receptors.  I have no evidence to suggest that happens -- its just a concern.

[edward]

My current regimine is to take 2 mg sustained release, Source Naturals brand (one hour before bedtime) and 2 mg sublingual right when I go to sleep. I have tried many different doses, brands etc and this seems to work best from a optimal sleep standpoint. If I know I will not get 8 hours of sleep I will replace the sustained release with an immediate release taken along with my 2mg sublingual right at bedtime.

[StrangeAeons]

FunkOdyssey, on 22-Dec 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

So by the 4 1/2 hour mark, you're down to a concentration of melatonin (from the supplement, I don't know what your endogenous melatonin would be doing) that is probably having no effect. If you wake up at 3 or 4am after taking 3mg of instant release melatonin, I'm guessing this is the reason.

I always thought some kind of really high quality sustained release formulation would be ideal, something that had real pharmacokinetic data behind it, to produce consistent blood levels through the night. I also worry that the super unnaturally high melatonin concentration you produce with a 3mg instant release supplement might desensitize receptors. I have no evidence to suggest that happens -- its just a concern.

I take a 1mg two stage release, and I tend to wake up earlier in the morning when I take it; it's a bit confounding as to whether this is because of higher quality of sleep or because of the dropoff in endogenous melatonin when I take the stuff.  When I took 3mg, without special delivery system, I would often wake up at 3 or 4 A.M. as well.  Given the relative consistency of melatonin's effects as opposed to my highly imbalanced sleep cycle, I'm not too worried about desensitization.  I don't think the body ever permanently downregulates receptors all the way to zero and melatonin is cheap.  It might take a little practice to escalate the dose properly, but the benefit outweighs the risk.

[rwac]

I guess I'm the odd guy here.
I used to take melatonin for quite a while, but I stopped recently.

Although I'd like to take melatonin for the immune benefits, it seems to screw up my sleep.

My sleep seems to be really good with Diamond V+Tryptophan.

Oh, I used to take 2 mg of Melatonin, two-stage release.

Edited by rwac, 23 December 2008 - 08:16 AM.

[Spiral Architect]

Taking a 3mg tab chopped to 4 pieces 2-3 times a week.
It has great benefits for sleep quality, and therefore, morning clarity for me. In fact, I have concluded today (after about a year of using it) that it's the best supplement I am using, just based on the increase in sleep quality.

I am considering moving to take it every night. I know research shows that it doesn't reduce endogenous melatonin levels and that there's no long term damage, but it's still somewhat of a rough intervention and I'm not sure I want to go through with it.

What say you, oh wise ones?

[piet3r]

Ok so I voted that I don't take any melatonin, since I barely ever use it. That said, I've had a wisdom tooth removed, and a friend told me that melatonin might actually significantly improve healing. Maybe it's just placebo, but I've been in some pain, and it kept bleeding for 7 days (like the saying goes, 'Don't trust anything that bleeds for 4 days and doesn't die" hehe). Anyway, I've started to supplement with melatonin 2 days ago at 12mg, and incredibly the swollen area has nearly normalized, and it seems to be healing a lot better.

I used to wake up pretty groggy after taking melatonin even at 3mg, but seems this didn't happen this time. So positive experience, hope it lasts.

[AgeVivo]

Melatonin's miracles is a pure invention

I've tried it once to fight jet lag, then started googling and pubmed-ing it. Trials concerning its effect on sleep contradict the initial ones (saying it worked miraculously). Melatonin is correlated with sleep, like white hair is correlated with aging. Melatonin is antioxidant (or isn't, depending on the context) like an apple is an antioxydant.

Edited by AgeVivo, 27 December 2008 - 10:46 PM.

[gattaca]

AgeVivo, on 27-Dec 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

Melatonin's miracles is a pure invention

I've tried it once to fight jet lag, then started googling and pubmed-ing it. Trials concerning its effect on sleep contradict the initial ones (saying it worked miraculously). Melatonin is correlated with sleep, like white hair is correlated with aging. Melatonin is antioxidant (or isn't, depending on the context) like an apple is an antioxydant.

If that's the case, it must be causing me to sleep... placebotically? I can't keep my eyes open after taking it. Did a double blind test with melatonin vs. benfotiamine in similar capsules. I had a 100% accuracy in determining when I had been given melatonin because of its soporific effects.

[rubegoldberg]

niner, on 21-Dec 2008, 11:16 PM, said:

Am I completely out to lunch on melatonin dosages?  I take half a milligram, approximately, which I get by splitting a 3 mg tablet in quarters and losing a bit in the process.  I can't imagine half a microgram doing anything.  Did the sleep-deprived author of the poll really mean 0.5 mg?  1 mg = 1000 mcg.

I do the same (without wasting any) getting approx. 750mcg each night that I remember to take it which is about 90% of the time.  I dump the 750mcg under my tongue and guessing that I get a more sustained release that way.  there is no repulsive taste in my experience, but I put a lot of nasty tasting supps down my throat so I may be immune by now.

[yoyo]

I take it to regularize my sleep cycle, not for better sleep quality really. it helps a whole lot ot avoid cycles of staying up too late, sleeping in, then (because of the sleeping in) having even more problems getting to bed on time.

[Imagination]

1mg is good for me, 3mg I got hungover and woke up in the night also.  Not tried any less than 1mg yet.  Only really use it on sunday nights when my body clock is out of sync from the weekend and I have to get up early for work the next day.

[hamishm00]

I switched from normal release (non-timed release) melatonin, with a monster dose of  6- 9mg at night, to 12mg at night timed release (by Natrol). This supplement also has calcium in it, which supposedly boosts the immune system.

I used to wake up quite a lot at 4am with the non-timed release stuff. Now, there is no chance of me waking up until the end of the sleep cycle.

It seems to me that the best way to take melatonin is the timed release stuff, or perhaps take a combination of non-timed release and timed release.

[david ellis]

I used to take the 500 mcg at night before going to bed.  Now I take 3 mg in the morning.   Somehow the 3 mg in the morning seems to work better.   For those who believe in a placebo effect here is a study that found placebo to be as effective as no treatment at all.

[hamishm00]

In the morning? Interesting approach.

You didn't just link an article on the placebo effect did you?? You sure taking that Melatonin in the morning isn't having the effect, placebo or otherwise, of insulting our intelligence

[russianBEAR]

I don't take it. It's a tryptamine, sort of like certain psychedelic drugs (LSD, Psylocibin) and it makes me sleep very poorly. Everyone had a time when you're not even sure you're sleeping but seeing some weird dreams while not really into the stage of deep sleep. That's exactly what happens when I take it, so I don't.

Also, nothing helps me sleep except for: weed, exercise, sex, or all the above combined. That's a word of caution to those taking benzodiazepines - you might mess up your sleep like I did for good.

[bgwithadd]

I've gone to taking 6mg a night and get a little better results, but results vary from person to person and brand to brand obviously. I think that's too much for most people.

[Saber]

I've been taking melatonin for delayed sleep phase syndrome for 2 years now, and for entertainment reason also. It makes every night a real adventure. If you have ever taken any tryptamines, the similarity is uncanny.

I have tried both formulations of melatonin, the instant release and timed release. For me at least, the instant release seems to work much better. When I first took it, I used to wake up  in the middle of the night, but now I fall right back to sleep almost immediately.
The timed release from Jarrow with magnesium and vitamin b6, in theory should work better, but it lacks that punch.
I don't get as sleepy with the onset, the dreams are less colorful and waking up in the middle of the night is still a problem, but with timed release I can't fall back immediately to sleep for some reason and the sleep doesn't feel as good as IR melatonin. When I finish this bottle, I'll probably go back to regular melatonin.
For that extra punch, take some vitamin b6 or b-complex along with it, taurine and magnesium, and this is probably as close as you can get to legally tripping inside your dreams.

I discontinue it once in a while though because all that dreaming every night does wear you down, and you just want a deep dreamless sleep.

Whatever it is, it's definitely not placebo. For people who does not get a lot of sunlight, it's a godsend, and you will definitely feel the difference while dreaming.
Melatonin is right up there with the few supplements with noticeable effects.

[Onomj]

gattaca, on Dec 27 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

AgeVivo, on 27-Dec 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

Melatonin's miracles is a pure invention

I've tried it once to fight jet lag, then started googling and pubmed-ing it. Trials concerning its effect on sleep contradict the initial ones (saying it worked miraculously). Melatonin is correlated with sleep, like white hair is correlated with aging. Melatonin is antioxidant (or isn't, depending on the context) like an apple is an antioxydant.

If that's the case, it must be causing me to sleep... placebotically? I can't keep my eyes open after taking it. Did a double blind test with melatonin vs. benfotiamine in similar capsules. I had a 100% accuracy in determining when I had been given melatonin because of its soporific effects.

Don't double blind studies usually consist of you either receiving one substance or another for an extended period of time.

How could you have anything besides 0% or 100% accuracy in determining which side of the study you were on?

[medicineman]

please DO NOT TAKE MELATONIN in the morning..... melatoning increases light receptors photosensitivity, increasing chances of retinal damage!!!!! and melatonin hinders memory consolidation, so once again, please dont take it in the morning!!!!

[winston]

Does anyone take melatonin to encourage a better sleeping pattern? I'm often slightly sleepy through the day (from staying up the night before) then "wake" up at 10 or so and don't go to bed till 11 or 12.

[JediMasterLucia]

I take 2mg time released every night. With this 90% of my nights are good.