43 replies to this topic

[Pittguy578]

I was wondering if there are any supplements that help someone to feel more rested after sleeping? I am sleeping 6+ hours, but yet I am tired when I wake up in the morning. This just has been happening as of late. Maybe I am not going into REM sleep? Work has been stressful.
I tried melatonin-doesn't help.

Any suggestions?

[maxwatt]

I was wondering if t

Sleep cycles last about 1.5 hours, waking on a multiple of 1.5 hours would help. Waking int he middle of a cycle can result n disorientation, feeling tired. Peoples cycle lengths do vary somewhat. Experiment with length of sleep time, like a half hour more half hour less.

[rwac]

I was wondering if t

How long do you sleep ? How long do you sleep if didn't have to get up ?
Do you snore (symptom of sleep apnea) ?

[FunkOdyssey]

I was wondering if there are any supplements that help someone to feel more rested after sleeping? I am sleeping 6+ hours, but yet I am tired when I wake up in the morning. This just has been happening as of late. Maybe I am not going into REM sleep? Work has been stressful.
I tried melatonin-doesn't help.

Any suggestions?

3g of glycine at bedtime. I've started using this myself and it works well. And by the way, if you sleep less than 7 hours chronically and are tired when you awaken, that should come as no surprise. There are few people that would feel well-rested after less than 7 hours of sleep, and a previous study I posted shows that getting less than 7 hours of sleep trashes your immune system.

Glycine ingestion improves subjective sleep quality in human volunteers, correlating with polysomnographic changes

Authors: YAMADERA, Wataru1; INAGAWA, Kentaro; CHIBA, Shintaro2; BANNAI, Makoto3; TAKAHASHI, Michio3; NAKAYAMA, Kazuhiko1
Source: Sleep and Biological Rhythms, Volume 5, Number 2, April 2007 , pp. 126-131(6)
Publisher: Blackwell Publishing

Abstract:

In human volunteers who have been continuously experiencing unsatisfactory sleep, effects of glycine ingestion (3 g) before bedtime on subjective sleep quality were investigated, and changes in polysomnography (PSG) during sleep were analyzed. Effects on daytime sleepiness and daytime cognitive function were also evaluated. Glycine improved subjective sleep quality and sleep efficacy (sleep time/in-bed time), and shortened PSG latency both to sleep onset and to slow wave sleep without changes in the sleep architecture. Glycine lessened daytime sleepiness and improved performance of memory recognition tasks. Thus, a bolus ingestion of glycine before bedtime seems to produce subjective and objective improvement of the sleep quality in a different way than traditional hypnotic drugs such as benzodiazepines.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 21 January 2009 - 03:31 PM.

[nameless]

I'm glad someone brought this up, as I have a similar problem. It feels like even though I sleep enough, I wake up tired a lot. Although I have some health issues currently which could also be the cause...

As for supplements, maybe try Suntheanine? http://www.suntheani...ess/slumber.cfm
Anyone else try it and see results? I am considering it for myself too.

Melatonin, when I tried it, works strangely. It makes me very slightly light-headed/groggy after taking it, but it turns me into a zombie the next day, as if I didn't sleep at all the night before.

I tried magnesium glycinate for a while, but that didn't help with sleep much either. In a weird way, it almost felt like it made me more awake, which isn't really what you want right before bedtime. But I suspect this was just some weird thing with me, and not common.

Edited by nameless, 21 January 2009 - 07:33 PM.

[ajnast4r]

I was wondering if there are any supplements that help someone to feel more rested after sleeping? I am sleeping 6+ hours, but yet I am tired when I wake up in the morning. This just has been happening as of late. Maybe I am not going into REM sleep? Work has been stressful.
I tried melatonin-doesn't help.

Any suggestions?

3g of glycine at bedtime. I've started using this myself and it works well. And by the way, if you sleep less than 7 hours chronically and are tired when you awaken, that should come as no surprise. There are few people that would feel well-rested after less than 7 hours of sleep, and a previous study I posted shows that getting less than 7 hours of sleep trashes your immune system.

Glycine ingestion improves subjective sleep quality in human volunteers, correlating with polysomnographic changes

Authors: YAMADERA, Wataru1; INAGAWA, Kentaro; CHIBA, Shintaro2; BANNAI, Makoto3; TAKAHASHI, Michio3; NAKAYAMA, Kazuhiko1
Source: Sleep and Biological Rhythms, Volume 5, Number 2, April 2007 , pp. 126-131(6)
Publisher: Blackwell Publishing

Abstract:

In human volunteers who have been continuously experiencing unsatisfactory sleep, effects of glycine ingestion (3 g) before bedtime on subjective sleep quality were investigated, and changes in polysomnography (PSG) during sleep were analyzed. Effects on daytime sleepiness and daytime cognitive function were also evaluated. Glycine improved subjective sleep quality and sleep efficacy (sleep time/in-bed time), and shortened PSG latency both to sleep onset and to slow wave sleep without changes in the sleep architecture. Glycine lessened daytime sleepiness and improved performance of memory recognition tasks. Thus, a bolus ingestion of glycine before bedtime seems to produce subjective and objective improvement of the sleep quality in a different way than traditional hypnotic drugs such as benzodiazepines.

what have your experiences with glycine been? any side effects/contraindication for that high of a dose?

i rarely,if ever, wake up feeling refreshed...

[bgwithadd]

Take melatonin several hours before bed, along with theanine.

[Wellington]

Suntheanine definitely helps me.

[rwac]

what have your experiences with glycine been? any side effects/contraindication for that high of a dose?

i rarely,if ever, wake up feeling refreshed...

ajnast4r, you might want to try Taurine, or Magnesium Taurate.

It used to help quite a bit in getting me to sleep, especially since I used to be vegetarian.
Very relaxing too.

Edited by rwac, 23 January 2009 - 03:59 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

3g of glycine at bedtime. I've started using this myself and it works well. And by the way, if you sleep less than 7 hours chronically and are tired when you awaken, that should come as no surprise. There are few people that would feel well-rested after less than 7 hours of sleep, and a previous study I posted shows that getting less than 7 hours of sleep trashes your immune system.

what have your experiences with glycine been? any side effects/contraindication for that high of a dose?

i rarely,if ever, wake up feeling refreshed...

I've been falling asleep much faster which was my main problem, probably within 10-15 minutes now vs. 30-60 minutes before. I am also staying asleep and should I awaken around the 6 hour mark to use the bathroom, I fall immediately back asleep for the remaining 1.5-2 hours of sleep. Dream recall also seems to be improved but that could be my imagination.

3g is not that large a dose, look what these spanish researchers are recommending for treatment of degenerative joint pain:

Glycine Supplements Prevent Degenerative Diseases

Friday, September 7, 2007 8:33 AM

By: Sylvia Hubbard

The amino acid glycine can help prevent degenerative diseases such as osteoporosis and arthrosis, according to a new Spanish study. In addition, the study found that glycine supplementation may be required by most people because of the body’s limited ability to synthesize it.

Glycine, which occurs naturally in fish, meat, and dairy products, is used by the body to make collagen and cartilage. The breakdown of cartilage, which leaves bones in joints exposed, is the hallmark of degenerative diseases. There is no cure for such diseases, and the only current treatments are painkillers, which do nothing to repair damaged cartilage.

The new study, conducted by the University of Granada and the Cellular Metabolism Institute in Tenerife, analyzed the effect of glycine supplementation on a group of 600 volunteers, average age 45, suffering from degenerative joint pain brought on by osteoporosis, arthrosis, or physical injuries. The study showed some improvement in all cases. Study leader Dr. Patricia de Paz Lugo said, “We concluded that many degenerative diseases such as arthrosis can be treated as deficiency diseases due to the lack of glycine, since supplementing a diet with this amino acid leads to a notable improvement in symptomology without the need to take painkillers.”

The researchers believe glycine should be considered an essential amino acid, and that many degenerative diseases are in fact deficiency diseases brought on by the lack of glycine. They concluded that a daily 10 gram dose of glycine divided into two doses of five grams in morning and evening will lead to improvement in pain over a period of time ranging from two weeks to four months.

© 2007 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

[Shepard]

My sleep stack works so well for me consistently waking up refreshed and pleasant that I wish I could patent it and make my millions.

Glycine, tryptophan, and melatonin play big roles for me. Particularly the tryptophan and glycine.

[ajnast4r]

gonna pick up some bulk carlson labs glycine tonight, i will report back on how its effecting my sleep in the next few days

[NDM]

I wonder if TMG - which eventually ends up as glycine - has the same effect.
It all seems to depend on the impact of the methyl groups on sleep: maybe they work in the opposite direction, to keep one awake?

[kenj]

AOR just released a product, - Ortho•Sleep including two of my faves for sleep quality: 5-HTP and melatonin, only I take the melatonin in time released form. IME the effects are cumulative.

http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=188

[ajnast4r]

tried 3g of glycine last night... it relaxed and put me to sleep very quickly. 5 minutes after ingestion i had a very 'warm & fuzzy' feeling, then i began to feel extremely tired.... i also had a little bit of dream recall, which is extremely rare for me.

however, i do not feel anymore refreshed than normal. i'm going to continue with the glycine for a week or two ill report back.

[VespeneGas]

however, i do not feel anymore refreshed than normal. i'm going to continue with the glycine for a week or two ill report back.

Please do report back, I've been struggling with nonrefreshing sleep and I'd like to know if glycine is worth teh moneys. Currently supping SJW, melatonin, taurine, magnesium citrate, and occasionally ashwagandha or bacopa.

[fntms]

Maybe try sulbutiamine. Start with a low dose (100mg) in the daytime. It's a great pleasantly stimulating nootropic with no side effects and it has the exact benefit you are looking for - at least in my experience : I feel amazingly refreshed when I wake up in the morning when I've been taking the stuff for a while. Best sleep ever, easy. But you have to cycle, can't take it for ever (not more than 6 weeks according to the label). No other supp / noot ever did this to me...and I tried many, although not glycine, which I might try soon.

Also I noticed that if I increased my caffeine content, I would feel much less refreshed when I woke up, and needed more coffee...

[ajnast4r]

however, i do not feel anymore refreshed than normal. i'm going to continue with the glycine for a week or two ill report back.

Please do report back, I've been struggling with nonrefreshing sleep and I'd like to know if glycine is worth teh moneys. Currently supping SJW, melatonin, taurine, magnesium citrate, and occasionally ashwagandha or bacopa.

just an interesting note, i find melatonin actually makes me sleep lighter and wake up less refreshed... whereas 5htp and tryptophan do not.


ok so ive been using glycine for a few days now. carlson labs brand (5$/100g on iherb), 2500mg before bed. while i do not find it increases the depth of my sleep, what it does is flips the off switch in my brain... whereas falling alseep used to be a 30-60 minute process, now im asleep in 5 minutes flat every time. also if i wake up during the night, i fall back asleep as soon as a hit the pillow. its an invaluable tool imo, and i will be including it in my regimen permanently. its especially useful for nights like last night, where i was studying until 1am and needed to go to sleep but my mind was active and awake.

as far as sleep depth and waking up refreshed... ive ordered some tryptophan & p5p (20$/45g and 4$/20mg x 100 on swanson) which im going to give a run. 5htp seems to increase my sleep quality pretty drastically, so im going to try this more sustainable approach before i start taking 5htp every night)


i also got a sample of and tried country lifes tension rx nighttime... this stuff is the sleep nectar of the gods. when combined with glycine i have the deepest, most refreshing sleep of my life. it also puts me in a great mood the next day... im sure it has something to do with the phenibut and i know a tolerance builds to that stuff quickly, so i wont be using it on a daily basis... but i plan on keeping a box around for occasional use.

[nowayout]

3g of glycine at bedtime. I've started using this myself and it works well. And by the way, if you sleep less than 7 hours chronically and are tired when you awaken, that should come as no surprise. There are few people that would feel well-rested after less than 7 hours of sleep, and a previous study I posted shows that getting less than 7 hours of sleep trashes your immune system.

For how long have you been taking this with good effect, and have you stopped it at any time with or without ill effect? I am also interested in improving my sleep but I am worried about tachyphilaxis, dependency, rebound insomnia, etc.

[FunkOdyssey]

I've been using it for 10 days and my fiancee for about 3-4 weeks. Neither of us have noticed any lessening of effect. I have not interrupted my use but Olga has forgotten to take it a couple of times and still slept normally.

[Imagination]

I'm glad someone brought this up, as I have a similar problem. It feels like even though I sleep enough, I wake up tired a lot. Although I have some health issues currently which could also be the cause...

As for supplements, maybe try Suntheanine? http://www.suntheani...ess/slumber.cfm
Anyone else try it and see results? I am considering it for myself too.

Melatonin, when I tried it, works strangely. It makes me very slightly light-headed/groggy after taking it, but it turns me into a zombie the next day, as if I didn't sleep at all the night before.

I tried magnesium glycinate for a while, but that didn't help with sleep much either. In a weird way, it almost felt like it made me more awake, which isn't really what you want right before bedtime. But I suspect this was just some weird thing with me, and not common.

Yes tried theanine for sleep, you do wake up feeling pretty good, normally I feel like shit in the morning, was one of those happy morning people with this.

For the melatonin I used to get that to, you only need a tiny dosage of melatonin, for this supplement more is less. I have the 3mg caps and break it into 3rds so i'm approximately getting about 1mg. With 3 mg I used to wake up after 2-3 hours of taking it and also feel hungover the next day. I was supprised this worked on 1mg until i tried it.

Not sure what magnesium glycinate is, just go with bog standard magnesium you would get in a health food store.

[nameless]

Yes tried theanine for sleep, you do wake up feeling pretty good, normally I feel like shit in the morning, was one of those happy morning people with this.

For the melatonin I used to get that to, you only need a tiny dosage of melatonin, for this supplement more is less. I have the 3mg caps and break it into 3rds so i'm approximately getting about 1mg. With 3 mg I used to wake up after 2-3 hours of taking it and also feel hungover the next day. I was supprised this worked on 1mg until i tried it.

Not sure what magnesium glycinate is, just go with bog standard magnesium you would get in a health food store.

I had to use micrograms of melatonin to not get any bad effects from it. I'd consume only a small portion of a 300mcg time release capsule, but then it didn't really do a whole lot to help with sleep either, being such a tiny dose. I'm not sure why it has that weird effect on me. I've read asthmatics shouldn't take melatonin, so perhaps that's why.

Mag glycinate is just magnesium chelated with glycine, which has been mentioned in this thread as to helping with sleep. I'm currently using mag orotate, which actually I find I get a lot of positive benefits from, but it's not really a sleep supplement.

And I have some Suntheanine samples arriving soonish, so I'll see how they work. Any problems taking it longterm, or do the effects sort of wear off if taken too long?

Edited by nameless, 29 January 2009 - 12:28 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

50 mg of Seroquel. 25mg Benydryl.

[OneScrewLoose]

I have so many problems with sleep. Even my 300mg of seroquel with CalMag chelate, kava & 1mg of time-released melatonin doesn't put me to sleep. Plus I always wake up feeling like crap. Question: Is there a point in taking tryptophan for sleep if I am already taking melatonin? Definitely gonna try the glycine. Hoping it doesn't hurt my stomach.

Also, aj, what's with the choline in the country life formula?

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 29 January 2009 - 05:55 AM.

[rwac]

I have so many problems with sleep. Even my 300mg of seroquel with CalMag chelate & 1mg of time-released melatonin doesn't put me to sleep. Plus I always wake up feeling like crap. Question: Is there a point in taking tryptophan for sleep if I am already taking melatonin?

I use tryptophan, and I dislike using melatonin.
Tryptophan helps your body produce melatonin, as opposed to taking melatonin,
which simply doesn't feel right to me.

Give it a shot. I ended up dropping melatonin altogether. Tryptophan works well enough.

[lyosha]

Take melatonin several hours before bed, along with theanine.

half-life of melatonin is less than an hour.

[stephen_b]

half-life of melatonin is less than an hour.

I can understand the blood half-life being so short, but the effects (once melatonin is captured by its receptors) seem to last longer. I would think that the antioxidant effects follow the blood level though.

[OneScrewLoose]

I tried the glycine the last few nights and it has made me feel less rested, not more. I been taking a full teaspoon though, perhaps that is too much? Also is glycine sensitive to heat? It tastes rather good and I'd like to mix it with a cup of chamomile tea at night.

[ajnast4r]

3g is (eyeballed) about 1/2 of a teaspoon... You're taking to much. Try 1/2 teaspoon

[OneScrewLoose]

The bottle said 1 g is 1/4 of a teaspoon. Will try half this time.

Still curious about the choline in that sleep sup. Any ideas why it might be there?

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 01 February 2009 - 11:47 PM.