71 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

nameless, on Mar 7 2010, 10:04 PM, said:

Hmm... I do wish lithium was discussed outside of the expert panel. Even though it's a small amount, certain common drugs do interact with it, such as ace inhibitors.

100% suggested rda is unlikely to be an issue. the most likely suggestion will be that the product be taken in 1/2 dose so that cuts it down ever farther. there are quite a few nutrients that interact with different medications, e & k and such, so it wouldnt have been wise to single out and not include any essential micronutrients based on their potential interactions with drugs.

Quote

How safe is 2-4x RDA for lithium? Seeing as I am on an ace inhibitor, I can't say I'm fond of the decision to include it. If someone felt 'dulled down' (as posted above) at 3-5 mg, you may wish to warn people taking ace inhibitors and other drugs about the interaction, as I think ace inhibitors can cause a 2-4x increase in lithium levels.

2-4x is perfectly safe, not counting any interactions with medication. average lithium intake is ~.5-~3g per day mostly from grains and vegetables. i can probably help you get a good estimate on your dietary lithium intake if youre interested. i'll take note of your advice, if you can PM me the name of your drug & any studies you have that would be helpful.

[niner]

nameless, on Mar 8 2010, 03:04 AM, said:

Hmm... I do wish lithium was discussed outside of the expert panel. Even though it's a small amount, certain common drugs do interact with it, such as ace inhibitors.

How safe is 2-4x RDA for lithium? Seeing as I am on an ace inhibitor, I can't say I'm fond of the decision to include it. If someone felt 'dulled down' (as posted above) at 3-5 mg, you may wish to warn people taking ace inhibitors and other drugs about the interaction, as I think ace inhibitors can cause a 2-4x increase in lithium levels.

Thanks for bringing this up.  When lithium is used for bipolar disorder, the dose is hundreds of times higher than we are using.  In fact, the first case report I found had a young woman taking 900 mg/day.  At doses like these, the therapeutic window is very small, even to the point of toxic levels overlapping with therapeutic levels in some patients.  Even small changes in levels at those doses can be problematic.  Lithium is cleared by the kidney, so relatively small changes in glomerular filtration rate or other parameters can have a significant effect on lithium levels when the starting point is as high as it is in bipolar applications.  With the much lower doses that we are talking about, which are equivalent to living in an area where the water is naturally rich in lithium, slight changes in GFR are unlikely to result in a significant problem.  As for being "dulled out" at 3-5mg, there are mainstream commercial supplements at this dose, so I would be surprised if such a level caused a problem in many people.

[TheFountain]

The supplement would have to incorporate these basic things in one form or another.

1-Anti-inflammatory
2-Anti-oxidants
3-Anti-glycation
4-Immune booster
5-Something for circulation

Another consideration would be something to cleanse the lungs (that does not result in raised blood pressure). And of course a decent dose of resveratrol (exceeding at least 200 mgs of total transresveratrol).

Edited by TheFountain, 08 March 2010 - 08:58 AM.

[ajnast4r]

RighteousReason, on Mar 7 2010, 05:10 PM, said:

Totally non-responsive to the question. Thanks for your mindless, pointless non-response.

you really dont like me huh?

my short post was done first thing in the morning getting ready for work... the supplement was never meant to be totally community designed. we got the basic input from the community and took that info to an 'expert panel' of long time members/contributors with formal education in nutrition/biology, with commercial supplement formulation experience, etc. i say this respectfully, but it wouldnt have been wise to allow the general public to make decisions on the supplement as they are mostly without formal education/experience on the subject, hence the need for a panel of experts. we also had a thread where people who were interested in contributing were able to 'apply' for inclusion on the panel.

we did make certain decisions without running it by the general public, but you can be assured that every ingredient was well researched from doses to forms to delivery mechanisms by a well educated panel of experts. if you have any concerns feel free to PM me.

Edited by ajnast4r, 08 March 2010 - 07:25 PM.

[renwosing]

How long more before this multi-vit is rolled out?

[ajnast4r]

renwosing, on Mar 12 2010, 06:10 AM, said:

How long more before this multi-vit is rolled out?

my guess is 1-3 months... i sent the final formulation to anthony today. now we are just waiting for prices & tech spec sheets on certain ingredients. we are working out specifics on the fat soluble compounds, ie: delivery mechanisms, particle size & bio availability.

[kakker]

ajnast4r, on Mar 15 2010, 04:47 PM, said:

renwosing, on Mar 12 2010, 06:10 AM, said:

How long more before this multi-vit is rolled out?

my guess is 1-3 months... i sent the final formulation to anthony today. now we are just waiting for prices & tech spec sheets on certain ingredients. we are working out specifics on the fat soluble compounds, ie: delivery mechanisms, particle size & bio availability.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks to everyone of the panel of experts for your hard work on this project.

[thevaughny]

ajnast4r, on Mar 7 2010, 10:22 PM, said:

nameless, on Mar 7 2010, 10:04 PM, said:

Hmm... I do wish lithium was discussed outside of the expert panel. Even though it's a small amount, certain common drugs do interact with it, such as ace inhibitors.

100% suggested rda is unlikely to be an issue. the most likely suggestion will be that the product be taken in 1/2 dose so that cuts it down ever farther. there are quite a few nutrients that interact with different medications, e & k and such, so it wouldnt have been wise to single out and not include any essential micronutrients based on their potential interactions with drugs.

Quote

How safe is 2-4x RDA for lithium? Seeing as I am on an ace inhibitor, I can't say I'm fond of the decision to include it. If someone felt 'dulled down' (as posted above) at 3-5 mg, you may wish to warn people taking ace inhibitors and other drugs about the interaction, as I think ace inhibitors can cause a 2-4x increase in lithium levels.

2-4x is perfectly safe, not counting any interactions with medication. average lithium intake is ~.5-~3g per day mostly from grains and vegetables. i can probably help you get a good estimate on your dietary lithium intake if youre interested. i'll take note of your advice, if you can PM me the name of your drug & any studies you have that would be helpful.

Do you have a link to lithium content of various foods?

[csrpj]

what about stuff like fruit/veggie extracts, EGCG, etc?

[renwosing]

Doesnt look like this supplement is gonna be out anytime soon.

[chrwe]

great to hear this is really on its way, waiting - thanks for all the work, this is worth a donation

However, if you include Lithium, you will be pretty much barred from selling this international (including Canada). Just so you know.

Edited by chrwe, 07 May 2010 - 06:17 AM.

[Ark]

I think most Multivitamins are a waste, or semi harmful and helpful.   Take hard pressed cheap supplements-  alot of synthetic stuff in it.

I can get most of the trace minerials from my diet, same with vitamins.


But when I can't I use Garden of Life, Vitamin Code, Men, anything less is a waste.