60 replies to this topic

[Mind]

I am thinking about adding Anthony to the expert panel as a person to assess the set-up and cost aspects of the multi. His company is likely to be the one to produce it as well.

The rest will be by polling (choosing 4 more... for a total of 7), unless someone else has a better idea.

The list we have thus far is:

Zoolander
Scottl
Blue
Edward
Kismet
Dukenukem

I realize Michael would be a nice addition, but he mentioned there might be conflicts of interest.

All Imminst leadership will have access to the expert panel forum as well as the official panel, however this is just for oversight and management of the forum and its discussions.

[doug123]

I think the minimum requirement for an expert panel should be an MD or (depending on specialty) a PhD.  However, I know of no qualified doctors that would have affiliation with an institute called "Immortality."  You'd need to change the name to something more palatable to licensed professionals.  With a name like you do, all you will get are fringies.

[Mind]

We will have to take what we can get to start out, but your perception is outdated. A licensed medical professional and a PhD have already agreed to help out and another would except for conflict of interest. The perception of Imminst is not as good as we would like but not as bad as you suggest.

[doug123]

Mind, on Nov 10 2009, 09:51 PM, said:

We will have to take what we can get to start out, but your perception is outdated. A licensed medical professional and a PhD have already agreed to help out and another would except for conflict of interest. The perception of Imminst is not as good as we would like but not as bad as you suggest.

ImmInst doesn't even have the "mainstream" Immortalists on board.  Kurtzweil isn't here.  Aubrey De Grey left.  

One or two fringies who are likely the outliers of the medical community won't help your cause.  If you guys changed the name to something more acceptable and/or paid your advisors, that's another story.  I know a few reputable doctors that might contribute to the effort.  The least you'd need to do is offer to pay them.  

If ImmInst had a few real experts on board, it would greatly improve the authority of the forum.  Right now it's a big chat room and that's it.  If you had some doctors on board, at least it might be a chat room with some authority.

Edited by ADAM23, 10 November 2009 - 09:59 PM.

[ajnast4r]

ADAM23, on Nov 10 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

I think the minimum requirement for an expert panel should be an MD or (depending on specialty) a PhD.  However, I know of no qualified doctors that would have affiliation with an institute called "Immortality."  You'd need to change the name to something more palatable to licensed professionals.  With a name like you do, all you will get are fringies.

the problem with that line of thinking is that MD's have very little to no training in nutrition... i've already seen you post numerous recommendations from "expert MD's" that are bad or less than optimal recommendations. most of the senior members on this forum could put 99% of MD's under the table with their knowledge of nutritional pharmacology.

ideally we want people with solid backgrounds in nutrition and nutritional pharmacology... which we have working on the project.

[doug123]

ajnast4r, on Nov 11 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

ADAM23, on Nov 10 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

I think the minimum requirement for an expert panel should be an MD or (depending on specialty) a PhD.  However, I know of no qualified doctors that would have affiliation with an institute called "Immortality."  You'd need to change the name to something more palatable to licensed professionals.  With a name like you do, all you will get are fringies.

the problem with that line of thinking is that MD's have very little to no training in nutrition... i've already seen you post numerous recommendations from "expert MD's" that are bad or less than optimal recommendations. most of the senior members on this forum could put 99% of MD's under the table with their knowledge of nutritional pharmacology.

ideally we want people with solid backgrounds in nutrition and nutritional pharmacology... which we have working on the project.

You're funny.  You actually said: "most of the senior members on this forum could put 99% of MD's under the table with their knowledge of nutritional pharmacology."

If you said that as a joke, I think I got it.  Otherwise, I'd like to please tell me who these "senior members" are and how they more knowlegable than 99% of MDs.  Are you inferring you are "more knowlegable" than 99% of MDs?

MDs come with clinical experience in treating actual patients.  OK, just tell me are joking

[shazam]

You know, I think there should be a 4th stage before tossing this one to the experts: A complete formulation stage.  Once we've had adequate discussion on the individual ingrediants, we put it together for a rough draft and take a good look at it to see the big picture.  

Also, WAKE UP PEOPLE... discussion appears to be dying off a little bit, and some of the nutrients aren't even in their 2nd stage.  I'd like to see this multi in existance before summer if possible.  Sounds a little unrealistic, but eh, once we plan it, what's the company got to do other than find sources, negotiate with other companies and churn it out?  I'd say about half a year would be reasonable leeway if they're just making a multi directed by our feedback instead of a super unique product.  

So let's get on this stuff.

Edited by shazam, 11 November 2009 - 04:17 AM.

[ajnast4r]

ADAM23, on Nov 10 2009, 07:13 PM, said:

MDs come with clinical experience in treating actual patients.  OK, just tell me are joking

why is that a joke? MD's receive very little to no nutritional training depending on when they finished med school. Doctors are not nutritional experts, thats what dieticians are for.

MDs have clinical experience in disease diagnosis and treatment... when treatment requires nutritional therapy they call in the dietician. having an MD isnt like a having a big S on your chest that somehow makes you automatically the expert in matters of the body... in my first basic nutrition class one of the first lectures was on who is considered an authority on & a reliable source for information on nutrition & why, and MD had a big red X through it.

[nameless]

Agree with ajnast regarding doctors and nutrition/supplements. Even though I am sure there are good doctors out there who are knowledgeable about such, unfortunately most appear rather ignorant. I've seen more doctors than I really prefer to, and at best they'll have some minor knowledge about a supplement related to their specialty.  And even then, they aren't always really up to date with things.

For the expert panel... will there be a simple vote where everyone here simply chooses from the polling list one or more experts?

And will all of those nominated list their qualifications/background in these forums before the voting? Since everyone isn't aware of education, background, etc, for every person nominated, I'd think it'd be useful to know who has a nutrition/science background before the polls are put up.

Edited by nameless, 11 November 2009 - 06:47 PM.

[Mind]

Thanks for the suggestions nameless. For those who haven't listed qualifications, more info would be nice...before the polling.

Does everyone think polling is a good idea, or should we just put those 6 additional people on the panel and call it good....potentially a 9 member panel.

[eternaltraveler]

panel members should be appointed.  This should not be a popularity contest.

[Mind]

Adam23 you are seriously misjudging Imminst perception. Aubrey de Grey and Michael Rae are advisors here. I have had several big names on our Sunday evening news program including Stuart Olshanksy, Michael Rose, Dr. Klatz of A4M, Ray Kurzweil's Longevity Doctor Terry Grossman, Luigi Fontana, Aurthur De Vany, and Dr. William Davis.

Do you have some connections or something? Do you know a couple experts who would advise this effort? Do you have anything positive to add at all?

I for one trust the advice of Imminst leadership, advisers and members. The people helping to create this multi are serious life extension advocates and that counts for a lot. I would trust their formulation more than I would trust most any generic multi on store shelves.

[ajnast4r]

eternaltraveler, on Nov 11 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

panel members should be appointed.  This should not be a popularity contest.

i agree

ADAM23, on Nov 11 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

You have had what?  Like three years of college and you think you know what you're talking about?  There are MDs (that means medical doctors) that have spent full careers in the field (30+ YEARS) who specialize in supplements and alternative treatments and you want to go online with your three years of college and undermine their position?  

I'm not saying this Stephen Pratt guy is the solution.  I'm just saying I'm looking for someone with some knowlege and real life experience in the field!

you are really, really missing the point of what im saying

[eternaltraveler]

I also nominate shepard.  He is knowledgeable, but more importantly in my opinion he has a particularly strong bullshit detector.

[eternaltraveler]

from the list we have thus far zoolander and scottl should be on it the panel without question if they are both agreeable.

[ajnast4r]

eternaltraveler, on Nov 11 2009, 08:14 PM, said:

I also nominate shepard.  He is knowledgeable, but more importantly in my opinion he has a particularly strong bullshit detector.

i talked to him already, he declined

[Mind]

I can see this is an exercise in futility since you don't really follow what goes on around here, but here goes:

The Institute has a constitution. Changing the name requires a constitutional referendum by members. Members voted it down. This hasn't stopped us from working on alternative solutions such as dynamic skin/theme generation with a different URL and name and/or the creation of a DBA name.

*Imminst has sponsored 3 successful conferences in the last 2 years (Alcor, UABBA, Convergence).
*Established the first ever cash prize for folding@home.
*Developed a media outlet at Ustream, previously mentioned - notable guests.
*Now in our second year of providing scholarships to young researchers through SENSFAI.
*Raised $16,000 for the cryopreservation of William O'Rights
*Raised $27,000 for Laser Ablation of Lipofuscin research (ongoing) and general SENSF research
*In the process of establishing a research endowment ($5,000 right now) and hoping to provide grants every year.
*Imminst was instrumental in helping SENSF win the 3banana grant challenge for $5,000
*Of course, designing a supplement would pretty a nice success as well.

I have also managed the front page, forums, advertising, a regulatory affairs, and revenue stream for the Institute, bringing our total funds to over $60,000 at one point this year with an annual income ranging from $30,000 to $50,000. I think that is pretty good for the Immortality Institute.

See the action forum if you have suggestions or want to help out.

[niner]

ADAM23, on Nov 12 2009, 10:01 PM, said:

But, if you want to be stubborn and keep the name ImmInst, to get licensed MDs to participate, you'd have to pay them A LOT.  For being part of the stigmatized Immortalists, that is.

I think we will be just fine with the various PhDs and experts who are already on board here.

[ajnast4r]

ok now lets get the thread back on track

[eternaltraveler]

who is this guy with thousands of posts I've never heard of?

He must hide in the nootropic section or something.

Edit: nevermind

Edited by eternaltraveler, 13 November 2009 - 04:29 PM.

[okok]

imminst's problem, if you want to call it that, is noise. it's a public forum. pop. what is needed is quality assurance. recommended topics are but a weak implement. it takes too much time to winnow an interesting thread for relevant information.

[ajnast4r]

ADAM23, on Nov 13 2009, 03:22 PM, said:

Why aren't they the first ones suggested for a supplements panel?

you are trolling in that youre not contributing anything positive and youre being unnecessarily and overly critical without researching exactly what youre being critical of.

and they were.. the first people i contacted were an md, a phd in biochemistry, and various other students of the bio sciences.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hmmm...
I think this thread has been derailed.

I think the last sane post which I found very informative, was Mind's summary:
http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=362126

Can we move all the stuff in between somewhere else?

A

[Mind]

Ok, so appointments will be forthcoming. no polls on the experts. I would like to have the expert panel seated on Friday to give them approximately 10 days, through the end of November, to finalize the formulation. Then we can move on to having it manufactured/encapsulated.

[Mind]

So far I have not received any major objections to the expert panel nominations, except for Zoolander and Dukenukem (objections which were not based on supplement knowledge)

So we have:

ajnast4r
Anthony_Leora
scottl
edward
kismet
Funk
blue
Zoolander
Dukenukem
Michael (if he has time, will take a look at the final formulation)

[ajnast4r]

Mind, on Nov 17 2009, 02:38 PM, said:

Zoolander

someone actually had a problem with zoo? they must not be familiar with his qualifications

[Mind]

His supplement knowledge is good enough for me.

[Mind]

Blue will not officially sit on the panel, but has offered to provide comments/advice if anyone asks.

[Mind]

Latest list. To be seated on Friday, unless, as kismet suggested, we should get a little bit more input and extend the time for the polls.

ajnast4r
Anthony_Leora
scottl
edward
kismet
Funk
Zoolander
Dukenukem
Michael (if he has time, will take a look at the final formulation)

[Brafarality]

zoolander, on Oct 30 2009, 10:56 PM, said:

I`m going to play the devils advocate and throw some more questions your way...... [SNIP!]

Fine set of questions. I nominate Zoolander.

There is so much broad knowledge demonstrated on these forums, so much imagination and careful analysis, but, for projects like this, you absolutely need someone who is 'in the know', and here we have him for supplements, just as I feel that the formerly active poster Eva Victoria was 'in the know' on sunscreens.

Going forward on this path without someone like zoolander will result in many tears and frustration.

Edited by Michael, 02 January 2010 - 04:29 PM.
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