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Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging


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#1 VidX

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 11:56 PM


"Evolutionary Biology Can Help Us Postpone Aging,"







Interesting end of the part 3 :D

#2 RighteousReason

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:41 AM

Awesome.

I like how he said "health-span extension". Nice phrase.

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#3 Elus

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:02 AM

I just finished watching. I thought it was fascinating. It sounds like fruitfly genes, given their similarity to human genes, can lend us insight into how we could prolong life. I was left with a question though. If we do indeed manage to uncover the genomic secrets behind long lived drasophila flies, how will we incorporate that same gene expression in humans? In order to express the relevant genes within the human body, we would need reasonably good gene therapy. The other alternative would be to utilize the proteins that these genes code for in our own body via direct protein delivery - this way, we could introduce the proteins and compounds those genes code for and reap the beneficial effects at the same time.

Edited by Elus Efelier, 31 December 2009 - 02:06 AM.


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#4 Gerald W. Gaston

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:54 AM

All the videos from the Manhattan Beach Project that Dave has been putting up in the past few weeks are great, but these are some of the most interesting.

If you are on Facebook, then become a fan of 'Maximum Life Foundation' and you can get notified when more are posted... and I guess you could just subscribe on youtube too. :)

Edited by frankbuzin, 31 December 2009 - 03:05 AM.


#5 e Volution

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:31 PM

He said the experiment has been running 30 years now, which would most likely put him in his early 50's? Google is giving me no love. I'd love to know his regimen, he looks great!

#6 Mind

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 08:53 PM

I just finished watching. I thought it was fascinating. It sounds like fruitfly genes, given their similarity to human genes, can lend us insight into how we could prolong life. I was left with a question though. If we do indeed manage to uncover the genomic secrets behind long lived drasophila flies, how will we incorporate that same gene expression in humans? In order to express the relevant genes within the human body, we would need reasonably good gene therapy. The other alternative would be to utilize the proteins that these genes code for in our own body via direct protein delivery - this way, we could introduce the proteins and compounds those genes code for and reap the beneficial effects at the same time.


This is the heart of the point. Dr. Rose has been promoting evolutionary/genetic techniques to cure aging/lengthen life for many years and the question that always comes up is how can we transfer what is learned about the fly genome and "biological immortality" into practical human therapies. It seems we are finally getting to the point where the biotech tools are available to change our genes or what they express.

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#7 VidX

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 03:19 AM

He said the experiment has been running 30 years now, which would most likely put him in his early 50's? Google is giving me no love. I'd love to know his regimen, he looks great!


55 at the moment.

#8 niner

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 03:33 AM

I just finished watching. I thought it was fascinating. It sounds like fruitfly genes, given their similarity to human genes, can lend us insight into how we could prolong life. I was left with a question though. If we do indeed manage to uncover the genomic secrets behind long lived drasophila flies, how will we incorporate that same gene expression in humans? In order to express the relevant genes within the human body, we would need reasonably good gene therapy. The other alternative would be to utilize the proteins that these genes code for in our own body via direct protein delivery - this way, we could introduce the proteins and compounds those genes code for and reap the beneficial effects at the same time.

This is the heart of the point. Dr. Rose has been promoting evolutionary/genetic techniques to cure aging/lengthen life for many years and the question that always comes up is how can we transfer what is learned about the fly genome and "biological immortality" into practical human therapies. It seems we are finally getting to the point where the biotech tools are available to change our genes or what they express.

Rose is involved with a company that it commercializing the application of his research to people. They are not going to use gene therapy, though. They are going to do it with supplements. It will be interesting to see how they do this in a way that cannot easily be reverse-engineered.

#9 VidX

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 12:25 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically what he implies is that aging is NOT due to some gene pathway, but because of a natural selection. As it's "care" of an individual declines as fast as he reaches reproductive stage.
Sooo... I take that actually YES - aging happens BECAUSE of a chemical changes, but they are as a result of a lowered natural selection pressure on the run of the evolution of a specie. It means - we are kinda "left" on ourselves after the reproductive stage kicks in, gradually more and more, and these genetic pathways/epigenomic changes start to go "wacko".
If I'm right - we are aging because of mentioned changes afterall, it may probably not be the CAUSE (as natural selection is the cause) but a result, that WE may take as the CAUSE and concentrate on correcting it (to bring back/sustain the most optimal state).

Sorry if I wrote a complete nonsense, but I tried to make a little research on this in a past couple days, and as English is not my first language, fractions of a context here and there may have escaped my understanding.

I findthis theory similar to that "Reliability theory" (of aging) one, just hopefully mr Michael has a lot more ideas of HOW to "fix" it, not just "WHY" it happens.

Edited by VidX, 06 January 2010 - 12:28 PM.


#10 AgeVivo

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:45 PM

Hi all,

indeed niner, indeed VidX. I met Michael Rose recently and I must say that, despite some possibly sligthly irritating "we are the best" shows made by Genescient (based on flies mostly) I have been convinced that the approach has good chances to work. The website description is a bit oscure to me, so here is my understanding with my own words:

1- Cause of aging: selection pressure is concentrated on the most important things "for the specie to survive", which is usually not the same as "for the individual to survive". That's why we are not made to survive very long, and have probably accumulated not one but many caracteristics that go wrong with time.
((my comment1: call it damage or misadaptation to old age if you want; there are probably many types))
((my comment2: this natural selection related definition of aging makes perfect sense to me; contrary to what Genescient may have said I'm don't think that this theory is incompatible with the possibility to find one/a few treatments that would extend lifespan by much))

1bis - To test the theory some flies have successfully been derived from a strain by selection to live long and healthy.

2- Mutations: the genomes of the initial and long-lived species have been compared. Each difference may -and may not- participate to the long life, and is then being tested, one by one (heuristic approach). Those lifespan tests are then done in flies first. Genescient would already have many great results on flies.
((my comment: so far this is only in flies, where a zillion of things extend lifespan, and with mutations; but here comes the tricks: ))

3- Treatments: the great mutations could be tested in mice but Dr Rose has thought of possibly faster/better approaches. They look for substances (food/treatments/supplements/whatever) and diseases (especially age-related diseases) that are known to be related with the gene (human gene corresponding to the drosophila gene for which a mutation extends life). They study the specific litterature to have an idea of whether the substance should have a positive impact

4- Test: the more promising substances are tested in mice and/or human on the age-related disease and/or lifespan. Genescient would have one or severar products in this 4th category: http://www.genescien...se-indications/


Anyway, that's what I understood - correct me if I'm wrong - I hope things are indeed at this stage.

#11 rwac

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:51 PM

Anyone have a copy of his presentation ?
I don't think I saw much of it, just listened to him talk.

#12 Elus

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:03 AM

Hi all,

indeed niner, indeed VidX. I met Michael Rose recently and I must say that, despite some possibly sligthly irritating "we are the best" shows made by Genescient (based on flies mostly) I have been convinced that the approach has good chances to work. The website description is a bit oscure to me, so here is my understanding with my own words:

1- Cause of aging: selection pressure is concentrated on the most important things "for the specie to survive", which is usually not the same as "for the individual to survive". That's why we are not made to survive very long, and have probably accumulated not one but many caracteristics that go wrong with time.
((my comment1: call it damage or misadaptation to old age if you want; there are probably many types))
((my comment2: this natural selection related definition of aging makes perfect sense to me; contrary to what Genescient may have said I'm don't think that this theory is incompatible with the possibility to find one/a few treatments that would extend lifespan by much))

1bis - To test the theory some flies have successfully been derived from a strain by selection to live long and healthy.

2- Mutations: the genomes of the initial and long-lived species have been compared. Each difference may -and may not- participate to the long life, and is then being tested, one by one (heuristic approach). Those lifespan tests are then done in flies first. Genescient would already have many great results on flies.
((my comment: so far this is only in flies, where a zillion of things extend lifespan, and with mutations; but here comes the tricks: ))

3- Treatments: the great mutations could be tested in mice but Dr Rose has thought of possibly faster/better approaches. They look for substances (food/treatments/supplements/whatever) and diseases (especially age-related diseases) that are known to be related with the gene (human gene corresponding to the drosophila gene for which a mutation extends life). They study the specific litterature to have an idea of whether the substance should have a positive impact

4- Test: the more promising substances are tested in mice and/or human on the age-related disease and/or lifespan. Genescient would have one or severar products in this 4th category: http://www.genescien...se-indications/


Anyway, that's what I understood - correct me if I'm wrong - I hope things are indeed at this stage.



Thanks for clearing this up. On the basic level we know that DNA (genes)is transcribed into mRNA which is translated into proteins. These proteins are then shipped into different parts of the cell for various functions. Genes can also regulate other genes, and thus contribute to gene expression indirectly.

We can examine the proteins within the cells of long lived strains of Drasophila via electrophoresis, and see which proteins are being produced in greater quantities and which proteins are produced in lesser quantities. The labs probably look at the banding patterns of the electrophoresis gels for this purpose and can thus link these proteins to the appropriate genes.

I am still confused as to how they induce selective pressures in Drasophila flies that promote longer lifespans. Is it simply by delaying the time that the flies reproduce?

And why is reproduction linked to lifespan? What happens on a cellular level that extends the lifespan of the flies? How do the proteins produced by the modified genes promote long life?

Questions, questions...

#13 JLL

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:57 AM

I am still confused as to how they induce selective pressures in Drasophila flies that promote longer lifespans. Is it simply by delaying the time that the flies reproduce?


I know that's at least one of the ways it has been done.

#14 okok

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:10 AM

And why is reproduction linked to lifespan? What happens on a cellular level that extends the lifespan of the flies? How do the proteins produced by the modified genes promote long life?


Natural, sorry Artificial selection?
Flies with inferior genes die off before they can reproduce. "Aging-genes" get weed out. A filter for aging-genes, if you think of it in terms of bad genes causing aging vs. good genes promoting longevity.

#15 Ghostrider

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:58 AM

And why is reproduction linked to lifespan? What happens on a cellular level that extends the lifespan of the flies? How do the proteins produced by the modified genes promote long life?


Natural, sorry Artificial selection?
Flies with inferior genes die off before they can reproduce. "Aging-genes" get weed out. A filter for aging-genes, if you think of it in terms of bad genes causing aging vs. good genes promoting longevity.


Yes, very interesting, especially the third video starting at 5:30.

#16 Dorho

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 06:11 PM

Great vids, thanks for sharing them.

One possibility that Rose didn't mention is that selection might have favoured also the reaching of later stages of life, not just those directly tied to reproduction. Mainly, if the contributions of grandparents (directly or indirectly) heighten the odds that their grandchilds will grow to reproducing age, then those 'grandparent' genes will be selected through the survival of the child (who has inherited those genes). It would be interesting to know if there were some pre-industrial nations/tribes where contributing grandparents were more rule than exception. They might have some favourable 'health span' gene forms in gene pool.

#17 stephen_b

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 07:36 PM

I just read this NY Times interview with Michael R. Rose.

My experiment was to let my flies reproduce only at late ages. This forced natural selection to pay attention to the survival and reproductive vigor of the flies through their middle age.

The flies evolved longer life spans and greater reproduction over the next dozen generations. This showed that natural section was really the ultimate controller of aging, not some piece of biochemistry.

I wonder if saying that "natural section was really the ultimate controller of aging" is not over reaching. Could you keep on lengthening the lifespan of a fruit fly indefinitely, or would you plateau at some point?

#18 VidX

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:12 PM

I just read this NY Times interview with Michael R. Rose.

My experiment was to let my flies reproduce only at late ages. This forced natural selection to pay attention to the survival and reproductive vigor of the flies through their middle age.

The flies evolved longer life spans and greater reproduction over the next dozen generations. This showed that natural section was really the ultimate controller of aging, not some piece of biochemistry.

I wonder if saying that "natural section was really the ultimate controller of aging" is not over reaching. Could you keep on lengthening the lifespan of a fruit fly indefinitely, or would you plateau at some point?


He hasn't mentioned any "limit" yet, and well.. the extension achgieved is beyond any limits already so I guess yes - you could..

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#19 Sillewater

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 07:40 PM

Rose has a site now with his 55Theses:

http://55theses.org/
http://michaelroses5...ained-final.pdf (pdf explaining them all)

http://www.longecity...post__p__463733

This thread is more substantive, discussion should be continued here.

Edited by Sillewater, 15 May 2011 - 07:50 PM.





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