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Benefits - real or illusory - and side effects to stimulating NGF


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#1 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 05:18 PM


http://findarticles....ag=content;col1
In a study of people with dementia, the stimulation of NGF over 6 months created improvements in perceptual capacities as well as well as an increase in the Functional Independence Measure (FIM), which is a measure of independence in physical capabilities (eating, dressing, walking, etc.) and in perceptual capacities (understanding, communication, memory, etc.).

This seems to suggest that NGF produces global improvements in brain function.

That study was conducted with Lion's Mane.

In addition to Lion's Mane, Ashitaba and idebenone stimulate production of NGF. http://www.organicas...ervegrowth.html

Looking to maximize this effect, I also take Acetyl L Carnitine, which multiplies the effect of NGF by 100 apparently. I think the mechanism of action is increasing the number of NGF receptor sites.

http://www.brainrelo...llcarnitine.php
http://intelegen.com...y_nutrients.htm

In 1991, it was discovered that the presence of acetyl carnitine increased the effects of nerve growth factor on the outgrowth of neurites from brain cells 100 times greater than when just nerve growth factor itself was present. This was an interesting observation at the time but nerve growth factor is an internally produced protein in the brain and it was not really known how to stimulate or regulate its production.


Along these same lines, I am thinking about taking Acetyl L Carnitine Arginate.
From the same article:

In 1995 it was discovered that the supplement acetyl carnitine arginate mimicked the effect of nerve growth factor and caused neurite outgrowth of PC12 cells “in a manner similar to that elicited to by nerve growth factor (itself).”3 Synergy between acetyl carnitine arginate and acetyl carnitine had earlier been demonstrated when both were tested separately and together on brain cells and found to be highly synergistic in the production of the neurotransmitters GABA, glutamate, somatostatin and other brain peptides.


Although not a stimulator of NGF, ashwagandha promotes regeneration of axons and dendrites.
http://www.lef.org/m...rt_ashwa_01.htm

Using a validated model of damaged nerve cells and impaired nerve-signaling pathways, re-searchers noted that ashwagandha supported significant regeneration of the axons and dendrites of nerve cells. Furthermore, ashwagandha extract supported the reconstruction of synapses, the junctions where nerve cells communicate with other cells. The investigators concluded that ashwagandha extract helps to reconstruct networks of the nervous system

In another study at the same institute, researchers found that ashwagandha helped support the growth of nerve cell dendrites, which allow these cells to receive communications from other cells. This finding suggests that ashwagandha could help heal the brain tissue changes that accompany dementia.

Finally, in a third published study, the researchers noted that ashwagandha helped promote the growth of both normal and damaged nerve cells, suggesting that the herb may boost healthy brain cell function as well as benefit diseased nerve cells.



Do you think, over time, that everyone will see the same effect as those seen for dementia patients? Or will the production of axons, dendrites, and new nerve cells be unnoticeable?

Can you think of any adverse consequences to revving up the production of NGF over extended periods of time? Given that the body is a homeostatic system and that the natural levels of NGF probably serve some purpose, there must be some sort of drawback to stimulating NGF over a period of years, which is what I'm planning to do.

Edited by bmud, 28 January 2010 - 05:34 PM.

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#2 babcock

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 05:59 PM

The only research I could find in the 10 mins of searching I did was this one

http://rms1.agsearch...ety/73-3244.pdf

which ultimately comes to this conclusion

These results suggest that sensory nerves induced by NGF may contribute to development of itch, and that NGF produced at the affected site may provide abnormal skin sensitivity in atopic dermatitis.


From what I can gather from this study it seems the researchers injected NGF into mice and found that their levels of "itching" increased suggesting that the NGF may be promoting skin nerves to grow into the dermis causing the mice to exhibit more sensitive skin similar to mice with atopic dermatitis.

This raises a good point that I think we generally overlook in using noots to stimulate NGF: Dendrites aren't the only thing in the body that NGF affects. It doesn't seem that many studies have been done, or released on what happens when a subject has an elevated level of NGF in his/her body for a long time. I would imagine that having an abundance of NGF present in your body would stimulate growth of all nerves thereby possibly growing nerves in areas where it might not be beneficial to have a lot of nervous response. It would be interesting (?) to see if someone having elevated NGF levels for an extended period of time suddenly finds themselves becoming more sensitive to impacts, smells, light, etc. due to an abundance of nerves being spawned.

On the other hand I often think that perhaps our bodies just stop producing nerves at a certain level. I mean is it possible that our bodies may have a "ceiling" as to how many nerves we grow and any additional NGF produced is all for naught? Be interesting to see if there is any research suggesting this theory.
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#3 Dorho

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:21 PM

I would imagine that having an abundance of NGF present in your body would stimulate growth of all nerves thereby possibly growing nerves in areas where it might not be beneficial to have a lot of nervous response. It would be interesting (?) to see if someone having elevated NGF levels for an extended period of time suddenly finds themselves becoming more sensitive to impacts, smells, light, etc. due to an abundance of nerves being spawned.

This is exactly what people taking Lion's Mane have been experiencing. From the reviews of New Chapter's Mental Clarity in iHerb:

"However about a week and a half after starting this, I noticed that I regained feeling in my lower lip, which has been numb from lip to chin on the left side for 28 years due to nerve damage. One day, I happened to touch my face and felt these nerve tingles in the area formerly numb, and within a few days after that, full sensation has returned."

"This may sound a bit odd, but I noticed an improvement in my sense of smell after several days of taking this. Subtle nuances in flowers and other fragrances became more obvious to me. Plus, my thought processes are more clear."
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#4 babcock

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:32 PM

I would imagine that having an abundance of NGF present in your body would stimulate growth of all nerves thereby possibly growing nerves in areas where it might not be beneficial to have a lot of nervous response. It would be interesting (?) to see if someone having elevated NGF levels for an extended period of time suddenly finds themselves becoming more sensitive to impacts, smells, light, etc. due to an abundance of nerves being spawned.

This is exactly what people taking Lion's Mane have been experiencing. From the reviews of New Chapter's Mental Clarity in iHerb:

"However about a week and a half after starting this, I noticed that I regained feeling in my lower lip, which has been numb from lip to chin on the left side for 28 years due to nerve damage. One day, I happened to touch my face and felt these nerve tingles in the area formerly numb, and within a few days after that, full sensation has returned."

"This may sound a bit odd, but I noticed an improvement in my sense of smell after several days of taking this. Subtle nuances in flowers and other fragrances became more obvious to me. Plus, my thought processes are more clear."


Wow! Where did you find these quotes? and i should read the post in it's entirety lol. :-P

Edited by babcock, 28 January 2010 - 08:33 PM.

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#5 recitative

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 12:39 AM

Is Lion's Mane sedating? Should it be taken at night?
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#6 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 12:51 AM

Is Lion's Mane sedating? Should it be taken at night?


I don't notice any effect at all.
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#7 xzibit

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:14 PM

Does NGF promote the growth of new brain cells also, like neurogenesis, i assume both are similar?
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#8 kassem23

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:59 PM

Is Lion's Mane sedating? Should it be taken at night?


I don't notice any effect at all.


In your topic: "Ten-months-of-research-condensed-A-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics" you talk about Lion's mane being really great? Is the "I don't notice any effect at all" regarding the side-effects? Or?
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#9 babcock

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 01:34 PM

Is Lion's Mane sedating? Should it be taken at night?


I don't notice any effect at all.


In your topic: "Ten-months-of-research-condensed-A-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics" you talk about Lion's mane being really great? Is the "I don't notice any effect at all" regarding the side-effects? Or?


It looks like he's responding to the sedating effects of lion's mane.
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#10 Ventus

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 07:23 PM

This is a very interesting topic.

If only we could find a way to activate nucleus basalis as we command, scientists can do this with rats, by manually sending impulses to the right part of the brain. Nucleus basalis is activated throughout the critical period when we are very young and need to pick up essential skills such as walking, talking and speaking; all that at a fast pace. After enough NGF has been produced the nucleus basalis will be deactivated and only rarely, when we concentrate very hardly it can be switched on again for a brief period of time. This is drifting off-topic, but nevertheless interesting.

Keep us updated, I would very much like to try something like this as well, but living in EU I would like to gather some information before placing an order overseas.

(check the Russian nootropic thread, about SEMAX, it supposedly increases BDNF as well)

Ventus

Edited by Ventus, 01 February 2010 - 07:24 PM.

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#11 babcock

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 08:46 PM

Link to an older thread about Lion's Mane

http://www.imminst.o.....l=Lion's mane

I'm going to try to do some research into lion's mane tonight or tomorrow and I'll report back any findings regard NGF.
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#12 babcock

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 03:15 AM

So it seems there are about 2 studies floating around on the internet pertaining to the benefits from Lion's Mane for stimulating NGF. I'll start off by posting the links:

http://findarticles....ag=content;col1

http://www.explorepu...gishi_11_4.html

this isn't a research paper but it gives a comprehensive overview of Lion's Mane in Layman's terms:

http://www.ultimatei.../lions-mane.php

So, what I've gathered from these two articles is that there are two beneficial parts of the Lion's mane mushroom. The first beneficial part of the mushroom is the fruit itself, or the "Mane" of the mushroom. Google lion's mane for images and you'll be able to understand easier.

Hericenones C-E and F-H are the active NGF stimulating components derived from the fruit of the mushroom.

Erinacines A-I are the active NGF stimulating components derived from the mycelium of the mushroom. Mycelium are the root structures of the mushroom and look like little white threads. These compounds derived from the mycelium were found to be multiple times more effective at stimulating NGF production.

The newly-discovered erinacine H stimulated 31.5 /- 1.7 pg/ml of NGF secretion into the medium at 33.3 [micro]g/ml concentration, which was five times greater than NGF secretion in the absence of the compound. The erinacines are the most powerful inducers of NGF synthesis among all currently identified natural compounds.


One study evaluates the chemicals performance on rats but the one I found more interesting was the study performed on 100 elderly people in Japan who demonstrated some form of brain related disease.

All patients were elderly and suffered from cerebrovascular disease, degenerative orthopedic disease, Parkinson's disease, spinocerebellar degeneration, diabetic neuropathy, spinal cord injury, or disuse syndrome.


The study administered 5g of dried lion's mane to 50 patients a day for 6 months after which an improvement was noticed in the patients cognition.

The results of this preliminary study show that after six months of taking Lion's Mane mushroom, six out of seven dementia patients demonstrated improvements in their perceptual capacities, and all seven had improvements in their overall FIM score (see Figures 3 and 4).


Quite an interesting study. From everything I've read it seems this substance is completely safe. If you google it you can find many forums and articles on ways to cook lion's mane as well as grow your own. Apparently it has a very mild flavor that some compare to lobster. Yum Yum.

Another interesting point is that it can be found all over north America, Europe and Asia. this spring or perhaps next fall I'll have to get out hiking and keep my eyes peeled for the mushroom. I think I will definitely look into adding lion's mane to my supplements.

Tomorrow, I'm going to try to see if I can find any research on negative effects of stimulating NGF production.
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#13 kassem23

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:13 AM

Is Lion's Mane sedating? Should it be taken at night?


I don't notice any effect at all.


In your topic: "Ten-months-of-research-condensed-A-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics" you talk about Lion's mane being really great? Is the "I don't notice any effect at all" regarding the side-effects? Or?


It looks like he's responding to the sedating effects of lion's mane.


Hah stupid, I didn't see that. Thanks.
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#14 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:02 AM

Tomorrow, I'm going to try to see if I can find any research on negative effects of stimulating NGF production.


Awesome summary of the research! Cheers, mate!
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#15 babcock

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:12 PM

So I spent a few hours this morning searching the interwebz for info related to overstimulating or "over expressing" (as the scientists seem to term it) NGF and associated issues. I ultimately (unfortunately?) came up with very few results for research in this area. The only things I came across were the study I had posted previously in this thread (about the mice expressing abnormal itching due to possible over expressed NGF) and this abstract drawing the hypothesis that over expressed NGF caused hyper active bladder.

The second study reported there were no direct correlations between over expressed NGF and over active bladder so that's good I guess.

However, the levels of urinary NGF were not statistically significant between patients with idiopathic DO without BOO, neurogenic DO due to CVD and patients with normal cystometric findings.



I also came across this study which correlates over expressed NGF levels to slightly higher hair growth rates in the body.

Overexpression of NGF, but not of BDNF, in transgenic mouse skin slighly (sic) accelerates HF morphogenesis


So either this means that not many studies have been done to investigate the effects of over expressed NGF or it isn't considered a potential problem worth investigating. There are plenty of studies done on NGF to read about just not many that deal with bad effects, I guess.

Some of the comments from the supplements that were cited before in this thread are certainly interesting (i.e. the guy who regained feeling in his lower lip). The only thing I found troubling about these comments is that they are repeated several times on other supplement sites. Not sure if there is some kind of review sharing program involved or someone who has a vested interest in selling the supplement (Lion's Mane) is having all his buddies go around and post the same reviews hoping to draw people in.

Anyway, if anyone knows of any studies done on negative effects of over expressed NGF please share.
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#16 Ventus

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:31 AM

I personally think the Lion's Mane available is not potent enough. The Swanson's Lion's Mane is 90x500mg of dried fruit body. That is a very tiny amount.

Nerve growth factor (NGF) is closely related to Alzheimer's dementia, and studies have suggested that the disease may be prevented or its symptoms may be improved when NGF is given into the brain directly. However, since NGF is a protein it usually cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier. Recently, researchers have targeted on the substances that could pass through the blood-brain barrier and induce NGF synthesis in the brain. Some compounds with lower molecular weight have been found to have such bioactivity. Among these bioactive compounds, hericenones and erinacines, which were isolated from an edible mushroom called as Lion's Mane (Hericium erinaceus), showed remarkable activity of stimulating the synthesis of NGF. They could be developed as a dietary supplement or medicine to be used for treating Alzheimer's dementia. This article offers an introduction to the isolation method, bioactivity assay and chemical structure analysis of hericenones and erinacines.


http://www.explorepu...gishi_11_4.html

Hericenones need to extracted or else very large doses need to be consumed, especially hericenone D (also possibly C-H), which shows the strongest activity.

Only product that has hericenones extract is Maitake Amyloban 3399, http://www.maitake.c...?product_id=37
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#17 MrSpud

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:15 AM

I picked up a bottle of Mushroom Science brand Lion's Mane capsules at a store called Mothers Market a couple of weeks ago. The supplement facts says it contains Lion's Mane (Hericium erinaceus) extract 300mg 30% non-linear polysaccharide (beta glucan) (Hericenone A,B,C,D,E,F,G and H). The side panel talks about NGF and says that it is from a hot water extract. It says "Hot water extracts are: 30 Times More Potent Than Mycelium. Used Extensively in Traditional Herbalism. The Only Type of Mushroom Supplement Used In The Medical Research." They have a website at www.mushroomscience.com. They say to take 1-2 capsules, twice daily, on an empty stomach. Does this sound like good stuff?
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#18 babcock

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:22 PM

I personally think the Lion's Mane available is not potent enough. The Swanson's Lion's Mane is 90x500mg of dried fruit body. That is a very tiny amount.

Nerve growth factor (NGF) is closely related to Alzheimer's dementia, and studies have suggested that the disease may be prevented or its symptoms may be improved when NGF is given into the brain directly. However, since NGF is a protein it usually cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier. Recently, researchers have targeted on the substances that could pass through the blood-brain barrier and induce NGF synthesis in the brain. Some compounds with lower molecular weight have been found to have such bioactivity. Among these bioactive compounds, hericenones and erinacines, which were isolated from an edible mushroom called as Lion's Mane (Hericium erinaceus), showed remarkable activity of stimulating the synthesis of NGF. They could be developed as a dietary supplement or medicine to be used for treating Alzheimer's dementia. This article offers an introduction to the isolation method, bioactivity assay and chemical structure analysis of hericenones and erinacines.


http://www.explorepu...gishi_11_4.html

Hericenones need to extracted or else very large doses need to be consumed, especially hericenone D (also possibly C-H), which shows the strongest activity.

Only product that has hericenones extract is Maitake Amyloban 3399, http://www.maitake.c...?product_id=37


Agreed, From what I've read over the past few days online it seems that extracts coming from the mycelium (roots) of the lion's mane are at least 5x's more potent than extracts made from the actual fruit.

I picked up a bottle of Mushroom Science brand Lion's Mane capsules at a store called Mothers Market a couple of weeks ago. The supplement facts says it contains Lion's Mane (Hericium erinaceus) extract 300mg 30% non-linear polysaccharide (beta glucan) (Hericenone A,B,C,D,E,F,G and H). The side panel talks about NGF and says that it is from a hot water extract. It says "Hot water extracts are: 30 Times More Potent Than Mycelium. Used Extensively in Traditional Herbalism. The Only Type of Mushroom Supplement Used In The Medical Research." They have a website at www.mushroomscience.com. They say to take 1-2 capsules, twice daily, on an empty stomach. Does this sound like good stuff?


Erinacines A-I are what you want to be looking for in a supplement. The erinacines are derived from the mycelium and are reportedly much more potent at stimulating NGF than the Hericenones derived from the fruit. Also, I don't know much about extracting chemicals to make supplements so take this with a grain of salt; I don't see extraction by hot water as a proven way to extract the compounds. From the studies I have previously posted in this thread, the scientists use some pretty serious chemical compounds to successfully extract the Hericenones and erinacines from the fungus. Also, the statement in your quote that I bolded is not a relative comparison. Translated that says that "Extracting via hot water is 30 times more potent than roots" I could allude to what they are trying to say is that "Hericenone extracts made via the hot water extract method are 30 times more potent than extracts made from the mycelium". However, once again I would say from what I've read this statement has never been found to be true. All research papers I've ever read have associated extracts derived from the mycelium to be much more potent on stimulating NGF.

Given this information I would steer away from this supplement as A. They seem to be providing information contrary to what scientific studies have shown and B. They seem to have confused their jargon which IMO refutes their credibility.
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#19 Dorho

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:08 PM

Bmud, I'm sorry if this has already been asked/told, but what Lion's Mane product have you been using and can you distinguish any effects yet? It seems that the only product that contains erinacines (from the mycelium of Lion's Mane) is New Chapter's Mental Clarity and sadly it's out of stock and discontinued in many places. It, like many other noots, is not for everyone though. Mental Clarity has received quite mixed reviews in the "Lion's Main" thread in the Supplements discussion area.
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#20 babcock

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:20 PM

Bmud, I'm sorry if this has already been asked/told, but what Lion's Mane product have you been using and can you distinguish any effects yet? It seems that the only product that contains erinacines (from the mycelium of Lion's Mane) is New Chapter's Mental Clarity and sadly it's out of stock and discontinued in many places. It, like many other noots, is not for everyone though. Mental Clarity has received quite mixed reviews in the "Lion's Main" thread in the Supplements discussion area.


These are all supps made from the mycelium:

Fungi Perfecti, Host Defense, Lion's Mane

Eclectic Institute, The Original 7 Mushroom Blend

Eclectic Institute, Mycetobotanicals, Lion's Mane

These are only on iherb which I've found to not have the best supply of mushroom supplements.

Here's one on nutrition geeks:

Lion's Mane Mushroom, Freeze-Dried

Just do a google search on Lion's Mane Mushroom and you'll come up with all the supps. It's still possible to order the Mental Clarity from some sites. Or at least it was a week ago or so.
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#21 Dorho

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:32 PM

Bmud, I'm sorry if this has already been asked/told, but what Lion's Mane product have you been using and can you distinguish any effects yet? It seems that the only product that contains erinacines (from the mycelium of Lion's Mane) is New Chapter's Mental Clarity and sadly it's out of stock and discontinued in many places. It, like many other noots, is not for everyone though. Mental Clarity has received quite mixed reviews in the "Lion's Main" thread in the Supplements discussion area.


These are all supps made from the mycelium:

Fungi Perfecti, Host Defense, Lion's Mane

Eclectic Institute, The Original 7 Mushroom Blend

Eclectic Institute, Mycetobotanicals, Lion's Mane

These are only on iherb which I've found to not have the best supply of mushroom supplements.

Here's one on nutrition geeks:

Lion's Mane Mushroom, Freeze-Dried

Just do a google search on Lion's Mane Mushroom and you'll come up with all the supps. It's still possible to order the Mental Clarity from some sites. Or at least it was a week ago or so.

Thanks for the tips. I did find the Host Defense from iHerb using Lion's Mane + mycelium as search words, but it contains so many mushrooms, and probably all of them in miniscule amounts that I didn't bother to order it. The Mycetobotanicals product seems bery interesting though, thanks. Since you have done quite a bit of reasearch on the matter, is there any particular product that you recommend using?
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#22 babcock

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for the tips. I did find the Host Defense from iHerb using Lion's Mane + mycelium as search words, but it contains so many mushrooms, and probably all of them in miniscule amounts that I didn't bother to order it. The Mycetobotanicals product seems bery interesting though, thanks. Since you have done quite a bit of reasearch on the matter, is there any particular product that you recommend using?


Heh, you got me, I have yet to find a supplement for lion's mane that I trust (haven't really been actively looking as right now I'm experimenting with piracetem and don't want to mingle effects) but I will prolly order some sort of lion's mane next week.

I however will be using these things as qualifiers for the supp I ultimately purchase:
1. Contains lion's mane mycelium
2. Mycelium dosage is ~680mg as this is what New Chapter's Mental Clarity (has the most "profound" reviews of significant results) contains.

This assumes a lot of things, the largest assumption IMO is that all extracts are created the same.

The effects I feel are going to be really hard to gauge as well as I have no nervous damage to speak of and I've read that effects are subtle and not immediate (may take supplementing for a few months to notice an effect). I'll definitely keep you posted when I select a supp to go with.

Ohh and I agree about the whole 7 mushrooms thing, I will be looking for lion's mane only.
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#23 Animal

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 06:24 PM

I have made enquires about New Chapter's Mental Clarity, and was told that a "new, revised, more effective" product will be in stock at most on-line retailers by the end of April. It still contains Lions Mane but the ingredient ratios may be different.
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#24 babcock

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 06:47 PM

I have made enquires about New Chapter's Mental Clarity, and was told that a "new, revised, more effective" product will be in stock at most on-line retailers by the end of April. It still contains Lions Mane but the ingredient ratios may be different.


Sweet good to know, the bolded line in the quote below (taken from product description) has me a little worried about the company though

Mycelium: the Earth's Living Internet

The enduring wisdom and force of the mushroom lies in its mycelium Mycelia are the delicate life threads growing unseen in rainforest soil and wood, culturing organic matter and delivering probiotic nutrients to all trees and plants. Mycelia make up a living internet, connecting the ancient intelligence in the mushroom to all life on earth. Each New Chapter Activated Organic Mushrooms formula delivers proprietary strains of mycelium in their organic culturing media.


Avatar was cool though and that sounds kinda like what the Na'vi were doing right....? lulz
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#25 mentatpsi

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:46 PM

There was a particular study that scared me and makes me wonder whether or not it's a safe product to be taken. More along the lines of an assumption derived from this study than concrete evidence, the following study speaks of increasing cell growth and I thought this act increases risk of developing cancer from a purely statistical standpoint.

[175] Stimulated animal nerve cells.
It was found that an exo-biopolymer (M.W. 1,000,000, molar ratio of 1.5:1.7:1.2:0.6:0.9, glucose:galactose:xylose:mannose:fructose, purity 99%) purified from the liquid culture broth of Hericium erinaceus mycelium enhanced the growth of rat adrenal nerve cells. The polymer also improved the extension of the neurites of PC12 cell. Its efficacy was found to be higher than those from known nerve growth factors such as Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) and Brain-Derived Nerve Factor (BDNF). The effect of two standards has not been observed above 0.1 (mg l−1) of supplementation; however, the polymer did show the effect of cell growth and neurite extension at up to 1.0 (mg l−1) of addition. While the polymer improved both cell growth and neurite extension, NGF and BDNF did only outgrowth of the neurites. Maximum cell density and length of the neurites were observed as 1.5×105 (viable cells ml−1) and 230 μm, respectively in adding 0.8 (mg l−1) of the biopolymer for 8 days cultivation. The control growth was observed only as 1.2×105 (viable cell ml−1) of maximum cell density and 140 μm of maximum length, respectively. It was also confirmed that the polymer reacted with the nerve cells within 30 min after adding the sample, compared to 80 min in adding two other growth factors. Number of neurite-bearing cells remained relatively steady in adding the polymer even when the cell growth started to be decreased. It was interesting that the polymer effectively delayed apoptosis of PC12 cells by dramatically reducing the ratio of apoptotic cells to 20% from 50% of the control.

My blog source

Certainly, it might just be baseless fear.
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#26 mentatpsi

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 05:01 AM

Conflicting information regarding my perceived risk (to keep this balanced):
The Nerve Growth Factor and the Neuroscience Chess Board[pdf] [html]

Edited by mentatpsi, 17 February 2010 - 05:06 AM.

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#27 mentatpsi

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 05:10 AM

From above article:

In the 1970s and 1980s it was discovered that the role played by NGF is likewise essential for primary or secondary cells of the immune system (mastocytes, T and B lymphocytes, macrophages and others) and endocrine system cells (hypophysis, thyroid and endocrine glands).

At the same lime it was discovered that the activity of the NGF molecule was not restricted to peripheral nervous system cells but extended also to cholinergic type central nervous system cells involved in cognitive (neocortical system) and emotional and affective (limbic system) activities. All the neuronal and non neuronal cells receptive to NGF action in the above systems are subjected to programmed death if deprived of the NGF molecule.


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#28 prophets

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 05:42 AM

Conflicting information regarding my perceived risk (to keep this balanced):
The Nerve Growth Factor and the Neuroscience Chess Board[pdf] [html]



this person who wrote this paper, discovered NGF, and received the nobel prize, has taken NGF through eye drops like every day for the last 50 years.
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#29 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 03:06 PM

this person who wrote this paper, discovered NGF, and received the nobel prize, has taken NGF through eye drops like every day for the last 50 years.


I think that answers my question on whether there are any expected negative reactions to too much NGF.
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#30 mentatpsi

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:41 PM

But it is not NGF which we are supplementing with, rather Lion's Mane. It should be examined as a separate entity.


Also of interest:

Among the four mushroom extracts, only H. erinaceus extract promoted NGF mRNA expression in a concentration-dependent manner. In addition, secretion of NGF protein from 1321N1 cells was enhanced by H. erinaceus extracts, and the conditioned medium of 1321N1 cells incubated with H. erinaceus extract enhanced the neurite outgrowth of PC12 cells. However, hericenones C, D and E, constituents of H. erinaceus, failed to promote NGF gene expression in 1321N1 cells.
...
Furthermore we examined the efficacy of H. erinaceus in vivo. ddY mice given feed containing 5% H. erinaceus dry powder for 7 d showed an increase in the level of NGF mRNA expression in the hippocampus.

In conclusion, H. erinaceus contains active compounds that stimulate NGF synthesis via activation of the JNK pathway; these compounds are not hericenones.


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