37 replies to this topic

[Hypothermic]

I messaged a Chinese Pharma company asking about this Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate/Cerebrolysin.

"We can send the product by DHL. And the cost is USD300/bag.
Best regards!

Katherine
Hangzhou Huajin Pharma Co., Ltd."

I can have it shipped via DHL (I am a Powerseller on eBay) and use this company for my shipments. Actual transit takes about 2 days, but the goods have to reach the DHL hub before they can travel by air, so add an extra day, but they are very fast. Customs is quick too.

The package is 2000mL/bag.
I was going to place an order and send my T/T/Wire payment.

What do you think? Can I send a sample somewhere and have it tested for quality?

Edited by Hypothermic, 31 May 2010 - 09:40 PM.

[chrono]

What is Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate? The first few pages of google results are for chinese chemical companies; no pubmed results. I highly doubt it's synonymous with cerebrolysin, though it's possible it has some of the same peptides.

I don't know if anyplace assays complex peptide mixtures, but without knowing what it's supposed to be, it would be nearly impossible in any case.

Personally, I wouldn't go for this, no matter how tempting the price, until you're clear on what you're getting. Especially if you're planning on injecting it.

Edited by chrono, 01 June 2010 - 01:26 PM.

[Hypothermic]

chrono, on Jun 1 2010, 09:25 AM, said:

What is Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate? The first few pages of google results are for chinese chemical companies; no pubmed results. I highly doubt it's synonymous with cerebrolysin, though it's possible it has some of the same peptides.

I don't know if anyplace assays complex peptide mixtures, but without knowing what it's supposed to be, it would be nearly impossible in any case.

Personally, I wouldn't go for this, no matter how tempting the price, until you're clear on what you're getting. Especially if you're planning on injecting it.

It's just Cerebrolysin concentrate from a Chinese Pharma Company. Nothing special or sketchy.

Edited by Hypothermic, 02 June 2010 - 01:02 AM.

[chrono]

Hypothermic, on Jun 1 2010, 08:57 PM, said:

It's just Cerebrolysin concentrate from a Chinese Pharma Company. Nothing special or sketchy.

Is this "concentrate" from animal tissue, or a synthetic version of some of these identified peptides? If it's concentrated, what should the dosage be, compared to cerebrolysin? And you gave a volume measurement of a bag; does this mean it's in powder form? If so, it will be very difficult to come up with an equivalent dose. AFAIK, the amount of peptides in cerebrolysin is not known (see patents in Cerebrolysin thread). [edit: these amounts are known]

The process of extracting the cerebrolysin proteins is a difficult one. It involves many types of advanced chromatrography and dialysis, including steps to exclude harmful things like prions, as well as protein digestion. It is not a simple reaction.

I don't see how you can say it's not sketchy without knowing much more about it.

Edited by chrono, 23 October 2010 - 11:19 PM.
correction

[Hypothermic]

chrono, on Jun 2 2010, 02:55 AM, said:

Hypothermic, on Jun 1 2010, 08:57 PM, said:

It's just Cerebrolysin concentrate from a Chinese Pharma Company. Nothing special or sketchy.

Is this "concentrate" from animal tissue, or a synthetic version of some of these identified peptides? If it's concentrated, what should the dosage be, compared to cerebrolysin? And you gave a volume measurement of a bag; does this mean it's in powder form? If so, it will be very difficult to come up with an equivalent dose. AFAIK, the amount of peptides in cerebrolysin is not known (see patents in Cerebrolysin thread).

The process of extracting the cerebrolysin proteins is a difficult one. It involves many types of advanced chromatrography and dialysis, including steps to exclude harmful things like prions, as well as protein digestion. It is not a simple reaction.

I don't see how you can say it's not sketchy without knowing much more about it.

It's an liquid/solution. Cerebrolysin is just the brand of the product from Ebewe Pharmaceuticals.

Cerebrolysin is just hydrolyzed swine brain. Call it Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate, Cerebroprotein, Cerebrolysin, Cerebroprotein concentrate. It's just different nomenclature for the same thing. Ask someone what Dihydrogen monoxide is? Its just an obscure chemical name for H20; Water.

I have attached a PDF of the COA.

Attached Files

•  COA.pdf   24.37K  11 downloads

[renwosing]

Is this injectable?

[Hypothermic]

renwosing, on Jun 2 2010, 05:00 AM, said:

Is this injectable?

Yes, you can take it via I.V. or I.M.

Edited by Hypothermic, 02 June 2010 - 09:22 AM.

[renwosing]

If that's the case, u had better send it for analysis for impurities and heavy metals.

[chrono]

Hypothermic, on Jun 2 2010, 04:37 AM, said:

Cerebrolysin is just hydrolyzed swine brain. Call it Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate, Cerebroprotein, Cerebrolysin, Cerebroprotein concentrate. It's just different nomenclature for the same thing. Ask someone what Dihydrogen monoxide is? Its just an obscure chemical name for H20; Water.

Cerebrolysin was "just" hydrolyzed swine brain in 1957, when it was first being investigated. As I said before, the procedure is considerably more advanced than that. Another preparation from swine brain may contain the same actives as Cerebrolysin, but it may also contain other things (like prions) that you don't want to be injecting into your body. The COA doesn't really tell us much, honestly.

Your comparison to different names of water is not apt. Water is one of the simplest molecules possible. Cerebrolysin is a highly complex extraction of organic tissue, incalculably more complex. Having the same name does not mean it's the same thing, or that it's safe to take.

[ThaNiteHawK]

Wow, 2000ml ????

Thats an incredible prize.

Did you test it??

I am really interested in this nootropic and would buy some from you if the test results have been positive.

Hypothermic, on 31 May 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

I messaged a Chinese Pharma company asking about this Cerebroprotein Hydrolysate/Cerebrolysin.

"We can send the product by DHL. And the cost is USD300/bag.
Best regards!

Katherine
Hangzhou Huajin Pharma Co., Ltd."

I can have it shipped via DHL (I am a Powerseller on eBay) and use this company for my shipments. Actual transit takes about 2 days, but the goods have to reach the DHL hub before they can travel by air, so add an extra day, but they are very fast. Customs is quick too.

The package is 2000mL/bag.
I was going to place an order and send my T/T/Wire payment.

What do you think? Can I send a sample somewhere and have it tested for quality?

[babcock]

I personally like to avoid products that are bound for my body from China at all costs. That's just me though. You have to keep in mind that China has very little in the way of quality control practices and for all you know they could be sending you a bag of saline.

You'll definitely want to get anything you get from there independently tested before you put it in your body.

[Animal]

I'm quite adventurous when it comes to pharmaceuticals and nootropics, but there is no way I would inject something that comes from an unproven source and has unknown purity/processing. There are plenty of potentially encephalitic prions present in porcine brain tissue, which even when ingested carry risk. Injecting them could be a death sentence. Jebus, I can just imagine a month or so after injecting it starting to develop dementia symptoms, terrifying!

[medievil]

lol, i wouldnt put this in your body.

[Knine]

standards are from EBEWE: http://www.fuzing.co...ein-Hydrolysate
Source:The pig’s brain is hydrolyzed or refined  
       by the confine enzyme.
Key Item:
Characteristics:Light yellow or brown yellow  
               clear solution
Nitrogen: 5.6-6.5mg/ml
Amino acid: 30-40mg/ml
Standard: The standard of corporation (Our
               product complies with the  
               requirements of the EBEWE Phama
               Co. Ltd. in Austria)
Package:        2000ml/pack
Usage:          It is applicable to improving
               symptoms of hypomnesis and
               hypoprosexia caused by
               cardiocerebral and
               cerebrovaswlar diseases. It can
               be prepared as injection or
               healthy food.

[chrono]

Knine, on 28 September 2010 - 06:47 PM, said:

Source:The pig’s brain is hydrolyzed or refined by the confine enzyme.

This is incredibly vague, grammatically incorrect, and lists only the two simplest steps necessary to make this product without any purification. And I don't think Ebewe is really that forthcoming with their manufacturing methods for this, so I think that statement is pretty suspect. I stand by my original assessment, unless more info is forthcoming.

[medievil]

lol wouldnt be suprised they threw a big brain in a mixer and then cell it as "cerebrolysin", you never know whit those dodgy labs

[chrono]

In the first patent I've found for the process (GB866509), they remove the septal region of a cow's brain, put it in a blender, wash with acetone, let it digest with proteins for a while, adjust the pH, and throw it in a cellophane bag under running water for dialysis. And inject it. Washing with water and filtering to remove impurities is described as "optional." Anyone thinking of ordering "bulk" cerebrolysin should remember that this was an acceptable process for creating such a product, and there's nothing to say that it still couldn't be employed.

A later patent (EP0326075), which uses more advanced chromatography processes, starts out with the phrase "frozen brains were crushed with a hammer."  

[Knine]

okay, well I just heard of Ever Neuro Pharma today, would you happen to know if there have been any successful recipients in Canada, and if I was to talk to Ever through email how exactly will they be checking prescription and status? If you know of any reliable sellers please let me know, looking for 1 mL x 10, best brand but still cheap price. are the pharmacies like pharmacy1010 reliable?


Also are the association of other noo's with cerebrolysin recommended for example:

"Hydergine – 4.5mg q.d
Piracemtam – 2000mg t.i.d
Aniracetam – 750mg q.d
Choline Bitartrate – 1000g q.d
Vinpocetine – 15mg q.d"  

from : chris's stack of drugs
http://www.imminst.o...977#entry410977

or any other supplements like phosphotidylcholine phospahtidylserine , inositol+niacin, oils such as tuna, fish, or (primrose oil from Efalex), memory fx (ginseing and ginkgo) and the usual fatty acid supplements: linoleic acid, gamma-linoleic acid, doccasahexanoic acid, arachnidonic acid, and others

(not as much medications as much as supplements)

[Ark]

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...eutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

Edited by Ark, 22 October 2010 - 07:06 AM.

[Ben]

Ark, on 22 October 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...maceutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

Hmm, not really up for injecting Chinese mystery fluid based on pigs brain.

C'mon though, seriously?

[medievil]

Ark, on 22 October 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...eutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

I would suggest to collect a few brains from some pigs yourself, throw them in a mixer and extract all the juices, a bit more work then ordering from those chinese labs, but atleast its cleaner .

[Ark]

chrono, on 23 October 2010 - 11:50 PM, said:

Animal, on 21 October 2010 - 10:16 PM, said:

Antigens are substances that can stimulate the production of antibodies, or at least have the potential for epitope formation. They are not antibodies themselves.

Thanks for the correction; I'm unlikely to make sure I'm using words correctly when I post right before bed. However, it was immaterial to my point, which I'm unsure if you were dismissing or simply had no comment about.

I'm also curious where you heard that Cerebrolysin is denatured. The only patents I've seen which describe or are representative of CRB purification mention only different forms of chromatography and dialysis.

And thanks for the info about the receptors; very good to know.

Ark, on 22 October 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...eutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

Anyone considering this should be sure to read this thread for some relevant comments. Though I'm usually a fan of bulk and custom synthesis options, animal-derived CRB is something I would never source in such a manner.

bobmann's article raises an unfortunate possibility. Aβ-40/42 is about 4kDa, so might not be filtered out even by Ebewe's procedures (whatever they are).

hi,
From my understanding of Cerebrolysin literature they use much higher dosages of longer periods of time then many can afford.  That being said, couldn't we do a batch and then test it?   Overall if we all are this intermeshed into cerebroproteins, as a group. I'm sure using safety measures it could be made safely. Also it would save a ton of money, perhaps if someone with a little more knowledge would take control of a private group if individuals looking make a batch it could be done? After all I can remember a while back ago, Transresvatrol being made bulk purchasable, and used it with great success.

Edited by Ark, 25 October 2010 - 04:01 AM.

[chrono]

Ark, on 25 October 2010 - 04:00 AM, said:

hi,
From my understanding of Cerebrolysin literature they use much higher dosages of longer periods of time then many can afford.  That being said, couldn't we do a batch and then test it?   Overall if we all are this intermeshed into cerebroproteins, as a group. I'm sure using safety measures it could be made safely. Also it would save a ton of money, perhaps if someone with a little more knowledge would take control of a private group if individuals looking make a batch it could be done? After all I can remember a while back ago, Transresvatrol being made bulk purchasable, and used it with great success.

Resveratrol and most of the nootropics we discuss here are very small and simple molecules compared to peptides. And CRB is a mix of possibly dozens of peptides, and probably other low-weight organics, too. There is very little data available about the composition of the beneficial peptides, let alone possible contaminants. Even if we knew the identity of what we did and didn't want to see in the mix (which we don't), the cost of the tests necessary for confirmation would likely eclipse the price of the bulk purchase by at least a thousand dollars.

[Ark]

chrono, on 26 October 2010 - 07:47 AM, said:

Ark, on 25 October 2010 - 04:00 AM, said:

hi,
From my understanding of Cerebrolysin literature they use much higher dosages of longer periods of time then many can afford.  That being said, couldn't we do a batch and then test it?   Overall if we all are this intermeshed into cerebroproteins, as a group. I'm sure using safety measures it could be made safely. Also it would save a ton of money, perhaps if someone with a little more knowledge would take control of a private group if individuals looking make a batch it could be done? After all I can remember a while back ago, Transresvatrol being made bulk purchasable, and used it with great success.

Resveratrol and most of the nootropics we discuss here are very small and simple molecules compared to peptides. And CRB is a mix of possibly dozens of peptides, and probably other low-weight organics, too. There is very little data available about the composition of the beneficial peptides, let alone possible contaminants. Even if we knew the identity of what we did and didn't want to see in the mix (which we don't), the cost of the tests necessary for confirmation would likely eclipse the price of the bulk purchase by at least a thousand dollars.

What about doing a bulk purchase of regular product, so we can all get a better price?

[Knine]

this reminds me of the time previous to ordering anything, i was in the works of ordering Ampalex online, from Cortex Pharm, i basically got the emails of all the suppliers at the events held around the world from http://www.cphi.com/ bsaically they go to paris india south america, and are people from around the world at the meetings, when the tour was in paris, i emailed over 500+ emails to the suppliers just to get the cheapest price for Ampalex , after i read asome forums about it i afound a website that makes one of the AMPAkines  and ships it to countries they told me to give them 2200 dollars for a pound of this stuff, that is the reason i emailed everyone that was at the cphi convention, n

anyone think this would be a good stack?

oh yea the company website is http://www.viwit.com/index.jsp
they make alot of drugs just really expensive for ampalex 2200/lb

only if it was the real thing

[SDragon]

Ark, on 22 October 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...eutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

I'm currently studying in China (in the same province as the seller) and am definitely interested in obtaining some.

I'm quite sure I could convince the seller to sell a much smaller amount as postage within China is peanuts. Maybe I could get 1 or 2 bags, as that would be enough for 400-800 days at 5ml/day. The problems:

1. Ensure it's genuine (although if I ask and they allow me to visit the factory, that's normally a good indication that they're not selling duds).
2. Find out how exactly to inject it in a sterile way. How do I take a 2000ml bag and split it into much smaller portions with minimal risk of contamination?

I could then send it to members on this forum at greatly reduced rates (I'd assume).

Ben - Aus, on 23 October 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

Ark, on 22 October 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Does anyone want to put up on a bulk order? http://www.alibaba.c...maceutical.html  I think this is the best option (dollar wise)  There website says ten bags is the least you can order, I'll up for 3 bags which should give me more then enough to reap the full benefits.

Hmm, not really up for injecting Chinese mystery fluid based on pigs brain.

C'mon though, seriously?

I see your point but:

1. The majority of anabolic steroid oils are created in these Chinese labs, which bodybuilders seem to have no problem injecting and have done so for decades.
2. How exactly do we know that the stuff coming from Eastern Europe (perhaps even made in China) is no less risky?

Edited by SDragon, 29 October 2010 - 03:16 PM.

[Ben]

SDragon, on 29 October 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

I see your point but:

1. The majority of anabolic steroid oils are created in these Chinese labs, which bodybuilders seem to have no problem injecting and have done so for decades.

What does this mean? Is this an adequate endorsement? I really have no idea why you would mention this. Honestly.

SDragon, on 29 October 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

2. How exactly do we know that the stuff coming from Eastern Europe (perhaps even made in China) is no less risky?

Ok this needs to be broken up as there is a presupposition that is erroneous and not clearly spelled out (it's useful to try and isolate these because a lot of the time when you're writing them out, you realise they're incorrect; I agree with a few, so I'll pick out the ones I don't.)

Not all the stuff comes (here: "is bought") from Eastern Europe.

If, say, some of it was manufactured in Eastern Europe (or anywhere for that matter) this is overseen by the manufacturer- a company that has to comply with Western European pharmaceutical regulation.

There is of course the problem that some of these could be counterfeit, especially if they come from Eastern Europe. This issue has been discussed in this very thread, but basically there is a device used by the company to prevent this and there are ways to reduce the risk of purchasing a product of it.

This is how we know and can be certain that these products, on the whole, are less risky than purchasing mystery fluid from a seller on the very reputable site that is Ali Baba.

If you do end up injecting this, I honestly wish you the best and hope it does that brain of yours some good.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 30 October 2010 - 01:24 PM.

[medievil]

SDragon, on 29 October 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

1. The majority of anabolic steroid oils are created in these Chinese labs, which bodybuilders seem to have no problem injecting and have done so for decades.

Its not because its an oil we advice not to order, its because its an extract from a pig's brain wich can be dangerous if its not purified correctly.

[chrono]

SDragon, on 29 October 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

1. Ensure it's genuine (although if I ask and they allow me to visit the factory, that's normally a good indication that they're not selling duds).
2. Find out how exactly to inject it in a sterile way. How do I take a 2000ml bag and split it into much smaller portions with minimal risk of contamination?

Problem 3: getting around the fact that an unlabeled/unsealed/unidentifiable liquid you intend to inject, of dubious quality even if genuine, sourced from someone with 1 post on a forum, is the worst idea imaginable.

Edited by chrono, 30 October 2010 - 02:21 PM.

[SDragon]

I am not trying to start a conflict here and I fully understand the safety concerns. I do not see the point in continuing this as the only safe way would be to run tests on the substance.

I also concede that I look somewhat dubious due to my post count. I often read these forums and noticed people were interested in purchasing cere in bulk. As I'm currently studying Chinese as part of my University course and I'm not too far away from the laboratory producing it, I thought I could be of some assistance.

If people know of a way to test the substance then please let me know. Otherwise, not much point in debating this.