8 replies to this topic

[InquilineKea]

http://www.reddit.co...ts_bad_for_you/

I don't care whether you'll take my side or not - more information would always be good

[Forever21]

I think you got the right idea / message. (methionine control / pro moderation)

But not on the advice on cookie cutter diet (vegetarianism) because eggs is the king of methionine and is a favorite protein source of vegetarians. (ovo-veg) I sense an anti-milk message in the post too but compared to eggs, it has moderate met. Also, vegetarians have no problems with grains. Another king of met.

Perhaps what you should have recommended is a lo-animal protein, grain-free diet. Vegetarian / Veganism is not necessary. If you would recommend a cookie cutter diet then maybe a grain-free vegan diet one or a raw vegan diet, which eliminates grains, eggs, dairy, even has no room for tufo, quorn, and limited legumes.

We learn high quality infos here at ImmInst and I think its giving vegetarians / vegans too much credit to recommend their diet, without heavily tweaking it. Raw Vegans for instance don't have a problem with Brazil Nut smoothies. Methionine smoothie anyone?

Edited by Forever21, 02 June 2011 - 02:47 PM.

[InquilineKea]

Ah yeah that's true. Hm, do grains really contain that much methionine? I thought that almost all plant-based foods were low in methionine.

Interesting point about eggs. I'll have to do more research into that myself

I did have to respond specifically to the question though, so I did not recommend any other types of diets

[Forever21]

Ah yeah that's true. Hm, do grains really contain that much methionine? I thought that almost all plant-based foods were low in methionine.

Interesting point about eggs. I'll have to do more research into that myself

I did have to respond specifically to the question though, so I did not recommend any other types of diets

(met review)

Well plants yes, plants like spinach and legumes like lentils. Is that how most vegetarians eat though? Visit their restaurants and see that its nothing but a Methionine feast. Eggs, soy, seitans, dark breads, wheat cutlets, protein-boosted smoothies, grains, dairy.

Its hard to recommend a "low protein" to the people you're talking to because they don't know what you know and probably won't use a nutrition software to carefully track their protein intake to low-rdaish level using spinach, lentils and fava.

Edited by Forever21, 02 June 2011 - 02:55 PM.

[leha]

Forever21, your link there didn't work for me...

Great points about both having to tweak any diet and the amount of knowledge we all consider normal here, but that others who don't investigate this stuff are not going to buy into. The current trend in our culture is an ongoing duke-out between the fat lovers and the carb lovers, or the animal food/anti-animal food groups, and anything with more nuance than that (and especially anything that questions the sanctity of a high protein diet) is sacrilege.

Grain is what conventional nutritionists tell their clients to combine with legumes in order to get a complete protein meal, and methionine is the specific amino acid in grain that they are trying to compensate for lower levels of in legumes. But even legumes do have some methionine, so it's extremely difficult to get no methionine. The more common issue is that it seems everyone is getting too much (every adult, that is--kids need more).

I agree that a low animal protein, low/no grain diet, with eggs reserved for a rare treat or avoided entirely, is probably a healthier way to go than simple vegetarian. For those who can do the "30 bananas a day" thing, that can probably work, too (with supplements), but I personally could not stomach that kind of diet--it would make me hate fruit, which I love too much to make myself hate. And obviously, eating tons of nuts is not going to be good, either.

As for how we evolved to eat, and whether or not that is the best way to go, I think the point is that our bodies are adjusted (if not designed) to perform optimally under the conditions they've been faced with for a hundred thousand years or so, and those conditions were that plant food was mostly easily available, while animal food has been, for the most part, a kind of iffy prospect. So it seems to me that most primates in our branch, who were omnivores, were used to getting a lot of plants, punctuated with sporadic animal food pig-outs (and only sporadic availability of nuts, I suspect, as well). If you look around at today's omnivore generalists, this holds. They are always looking for protein and fat, but tend to eat a lot of plants while waiting for the big score (don't count dogs in this, because they are better hunters than we, and seem to only eat plants medicinally). So our bodies are adapted to this protein opportunism, and only recently did we figure out how to stop having to either run after animals that were faster than us or settle for the scraps of better hunters, via pastoralism/agriculture, which resulted in the sudden availability of much more protein (and especially methionine) than our bodies actually know what to do with.

Of course, this is all retrospective interpretation.

[Forever21]

opppss
http://www.methusela...read.php?p=4676

[InquilineKea]

Wow I see again - thanks for all the resources and replies!

[InquilineKea]

http://www.reddit.co...for_you/c1xdwhe

Hmm

It's sensible to try shifting one's diet to higher glycemic index ("GI") foods (after consulting with your primary care physician, this is not medical advice). Indeed, I've seen this recommended to diabetic patients before, and have slowly but intentionally moving my own diet in that direction. Much of the evidence is observational, though, which always bugs me.
People who gravitate towards high GI foods may have healthier lifestyles in other respects, so you'll see a nice correlation with good-health sans causation in an observational study. That sort of thing can be - and obvious as it is, probably has been - regressed out of a large dataset, but there may even be a causal role that's not (or, not obviously) related to the height of blood glucose spike: For instance, (and this came up during the thread on breakfast - last week I think) a meal of high-GI foods seems to leave one less-hungry for the following meal - so, on average, expect lower total calorie consumption, and all the good things that follow.

Does this person have a point?

[Saintor]

Some parts are interesting as some people showed a link between arthritis and intake of dairy products.

http://seignaletdiet...com/diet-basis/

Edited by Saintor, 26 June 2011 - 11:23 AM.