34 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

I'm going to write a brief log of my Pramiracetam experience (which just arrived this afternoon). Okay, okay it arrived yesterday, but I was gone out of town

Currect Stack:

Short term effects:
New: Pramiracetam 250mg 2x a day
Piracetam 800mg 3x a day
ALCAR: 500mg 3x a day
Sulbitiamine: 300mg once in the morning
Picamilion: 100mg 2x a day
Many cups of strong green tea (and occasionally espresso). I like the calm energy of green
tea, but sometimes can't resist the taste of espresso.

Long term brain health:
Nutritional yeast: 20g 2x a day (for the uridine)
Omega 3's: 2g of EPA/DHA 2x a day (from 6g of fish oil)
Lithium: 5mg at night
Bacopa: 300mg of Bacopin 20% extract at night.
PS: 100mg at night only
Methylene Blue: half a drop of kordon's a day (I do get some immediate effects from this as well)
Note: I had to stop taking CDP-choline because it was giving me wicked headaches.

General health:
Pom40p: 300mg 2x a day
Pine Bark: 250mg 2x a day
2000 iu vitamin D3
100ucg of vitamin K2 mk7
Multivitamin
250mg of mag citrate

Edited by health_nutty, 07 November 2011 - 03:44 AM.

[health_nutty]

I will in more detail tomorrow. First initial experience: I tried to hold pramiracetam under my tongue and it BURNED my mouth. Sometimes I try to get a little sublingual absorption before swallowing. Besides the experience has been very positive. I feel a bit calmer, and more focused and motivated to do what needs to be done (very possibly placebo effect, but hey I'll take it). The other thing I noticed is my typing is more accurate and I'm misspelling far fewer words.

I'm actually quite sensitive to Piracetam (especially since I first began). If I just try to take more tha 800mg of Piracetam in a given dose, I get a headache and my focus is worse. I was curious to see what Pramiracetam would do on top of my already "ideal" for me dose of piracetam. I have to say I am quite pleased with my first dose. I haven't got a good chance to really test it because it is sunday and I'm really not required to do anything intensive (the best time to try something new in your noot stack).

Monday morning, here I come!

[canz]

I just started pramiracetam also. I'm only at 300mg once per day. I'm only on pramiracetam so that I can distinguish the effects from the others.

[JChief]

Thanks for the reports please continue to update both of you!

[canz]

I've been on it for three days now. First two days I dosed 300mg, today I dosed 300mg in the morning, 300mg in the afternoon. All it has done for me so far is make me stare off in space. I am mentally dull and slow. Today I took 300mg of A-GPC with my second dose hoping that it would clear it up, and it didn't. From what I've been told there is an immediate response to pramiracetam in most users for the positive. I have not experienced that. I will maintain the 300mg dose once per day until I'm out and then I probably won't buy this again. It is more expensive than the others anyway.

I took oxiracetam at 800mg x2 per day for a month and I loved that stuff. The only problem is that I started feeling some anxiety coming on towards month mark, and I'm prone to anxiety anyway...not a good feeling. I will only use that every now and then. The bottom line is that so far I'm not impressed with Prami.

[spider]

I've been on it for three days now. First two days I dosed 300mg, today I dosed 300mg in the morning, 300mg in the afternoon. All it has done for me so far is make me stare off in space. I am mentally dull and slow. Today I took 300mg of A-GPC with my second dose hoping that it would clear it up, and it didn't. From what I've been told there is an immediate response to pramiracetam in most users for the positive. I have not experienced that. I will maintain the 300mg dose once per day until I'm out and then I probably won't buy this again. It is more expensive than the others anyway.

It sounds to me that 300mg per serving is to much for your biochemical system. Pramiracetam is strong stuff, you should start out at 100mg per serving, 2 or 3 servings per day.

[canz]

I've been on it for three days now. First two days I dosed 300mg, today I dosed 300mg in the morning, 300mg in the afternoon. All it has done for me so far is make me stare off in space. I am mentally dull and slow. Today I took 300mg of A-GPC with my second dose hoping that it would clear it up, and it didn't. From what I've been told there is an immediate response to pramiracetam in most users for the positive. I have not experienced that. I will maintain the 300mg dose once per day until I'm out and then I probably won't buy this again. It is more expensive than the others anyway.

It sounds to me that 300mg per serving is to much for your biochemical system. Pramiracetam is strong stuff, you should start out at 100mg per serving, 2 or 3 servings per day.

You may be right. Unfortunately I have pharmaceutical grade tabs that are shaped like a triangle (with rounded edges). It will be hard to break, but I'll try to break one in half.

[manic_racetam]

For me pramiracetam took about 3 days to start working. I eventually found 150-200mgs twice a day to be ideal for a daily stack. It's a strange racetam to say the least, I wasn't expecting the effect it causes.

It gave me a laser focus on single tasks. I had an obsession to finish projects through to completion but it was almost an autistic form of concentration. I would get so absorbed in a task that my surroundings would literally disappear. One time I was working on something and didn't realize that everyone in the office was leaving until the lights went off.

In my experience it's not an ideal substance for multi-tasking or having any sort of social interaction. But if used with a very deliberate and focused intention I think it could prove a powerful tool for completing long/large projects. It does give you motivation but I'd say it's more in the form of an obsessive desire to finish something.

Side Note:
The highest I went in single dose was 750mgs and mixed it with ~50mgs noopept. Must have been the noopept but I felt very social and it put me in a playful mood.

[JChief]

Yet another report of an emphasis on concentration. And another indication of the "emotionless" type feeling. I'm thinkin Pramiracetam sounds perfect for the graveyard shift. As soon as I see how noopept works in combination with piracetam over the next couple weeks I am going to give pram a try just to test some of my theories. One interesting benefit reported only for pramiracetam, is its ability to increase goal directed and purposive behavior (R.J. Branconnier et al (1983) "The therapeutic efficacy of Pramiracetam in Alzheimer's disease- preliminary observations" Psychopharmacol Bull 19, 726-30)

Also, elsewhere I read "Steroid Hormones enhance the function of Pramiracetam. Availability of steroid hormones is essential for Pramiracetam to be effective. Patients with low levels of steroid hormones or their precursors cannot derive therapeutic benefits from Pramiracetam. The needed steroid hormones include the following: aldosterone, corticosterone, dihydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), estrogens, pregnanediol, progesterone, and testosterone."

Has anyone else heard of that? I wonder if taking my tongkat ali supplement (which increases testosterone levels) has anything to do with the benefits I notice from nootropics? Who knows.

Edited by JChief, 07 November 2011 - 10:04 PM.

[JChief]

I've been on it for three days now. First two days I dosed 300mg, today I dosed 300mg in the morning, 300mg in the afternoon. All it has done for me so far is make me stare off in space. I am mentally dull and slow. Today I took 300mg of A-GPC with my second dose hoping that it would clear it up, and it didn't. From what I've been told there is an immediate response to pramiracetam in most users for the positive. I have not experienced that. I will maintain the 300mg dose once per day until I'm out and then I probably won't buy this again. It is more expensive than the others anyway.

It sounds to me that 300mg per serving is to much for your biochemical system. Pramiracetam is strong stuff, you should start out at 100mg per serving, 2 or 3 servings per day.

You may be right. Unfortunately I have pharmaceutical grade tabs that are shaped like a triangle (with rounded edges). It will be hard to break, but I'll try to break one in half.

One study showed significant intelligence and memory enhancement in Alzheimer’s patients with just 150 mg. of pramiracetam daily, whilst the equivilant piracetam dose would have been 2400 mg. to 4800 mg. This indicates that when compared mg. to mg. pramiracetam could be up to 15-times more potent than piracetam. (Poschel, BPH, Marriott JG, Gluckman MI, (1983) “Pharmacology underlying the cognition activating properties of pramiracetam.” Psycopharmacology Bulletin, Vol. 19, No. 4, pp 708-16.)

Edited by JChief, 07 November 2011 - 10:11 PM.

[canz]

I was able to chop one of my tabs in half this morning. Of course I will give it a couple of days to note effects. One thing that I have noticed since I've been on it a few days ago is that I'm extremely irritable. This didn't start happening until I got on prami...I'm usually calm and collected even in my high stress job. I'm giving it a few more days then probably calling it quits. Irritability and the quickness to snap at people is a no go in my line of work.

[Justchill]

250-300mg pram is too much.
If you take 250 pram + 800 pira + 500 ALCAR... man that is just too much I think.
Pram for me = supersuperconcentration + visual enhancement (sharper vision, brighter colors), I take it when I play sports (tabletennis), it gives me faster reaction + better focus and motivation to win the match.
I think it's not a daily supp.
Have you tried L-tyrosine?

[health_nutty]

I was able to chop one of my tabs in half this morning. Of course I will give it a couple of days to note effects. One thing that I have noticed since I've been on it a few days ago is that I'm extremely irritable. This didn't start happening until I got on prami...I'm usually calm and collected even in my high stress job. I'm giving it a few more days then probably calling it quits. Irritability and the quickness to snap at people is a no go in my line of work.

Piracetam used to give me irritability BIG TIME. I started from microdoses then worked my way up. It could be something I added to my stack made me tolerate it better, but now 800mg 3x a day is no problem. Pramiracetam never has given me that trouble.

[health_nutty]

Yesterday was my first day of work with Pram. The day was pretty productive. My motiviation was good (especially for a monday). I hope this performance continues and tolerance does not develop because I'm really liking my stack. The other thing I've noticed is recall of very long term memories is easier to access. I sat in bed last night recalling experiences from my childhood. Normally my memory is not especially good. I'm actually hoping the noots will improve my memory. My analytical skills and problem solving a very good, but my memory is probably average.

[health_nutty]

Another productive day today. No sign of headache or overstimulation fatigue (like I would get if I just took more piracetam).

[JChief]

So what are the biggest benefits you are noticing thus far? Is it just memory? Concentration?

[Baten]

Personally I notice pramiracetam from 800mg. When I take it daily, eventually I need to take ~2500mg to notice consistent effects.
I used as high as 2500mg as the max since I read of some coach on here using this much daily.

[Baten]

Effects are improved logic, improved brain state: clear thoughts. Spongy brain, you rarely forget something, most things *stick* around.
It's very expensive though :( if prami was as cheap as piracetam, that would be awesome.
Also, when I just start prami I have improved motivation for a few days, this is especially noticeable when I combine this with exercise during the day (fitness/running).

[health_nutty]

So what are the biggest benefits you are noticing thus far? Is it just memory? Concentration?

Improved clarity of thought, concentration, and memory. Much more pronounced than the effects I get from Piracetam. And note: Piracetam has better effects for me than aniracetam.

[JChief]

So what are the biggest benefits you are noticing thus far? Is it just memory? Concentration?

Improved clarity of thought, concentration, and memory. Much more pronounced than the effects I get from Piracetam. And note: Piracetam has better effects for me than aniracetam.

So would you venture to guess what the emotional dulling effect could be that people talk about? Perhaps those individuals are taking too much? Also, is there anything you noticed about piracetam that is unique compared to pramiracetam? But I too get better overall effects with piracetam over aniracetam. Piracetam makes me feel a bit more cool, calm and collected while mentally energetic. Not strong at all; subtle. It's an anxiolytic just as ani is. I just don't get that uplifted feeling with aniracetam. Not that I don't find aniracetam useful. Ani seems to work better for alertness and a great go to if you are staying up late to study and need to focus. More effective than a Red Bull that's for sure

[health_nutty]

So would you venture to guess what the emotional dulling effect could be that people talk about? Perhaps those individuals are taking too much? Also, is there anything you noticed about piracetam that is unique compared to pramiracetam? But I too get better overall effects with piracetam over aniracetam. Piracetam makes me feel a bit more cool, calm and collected while mentally energetic. Not strong at all; subtle. It's an anxiolytic just as ani is. I just don't get that uplifted feeling with aniracetam. Not that I don't find aniracetam useful. Ani seems to work better for alertness and a great go to if you are staying up late to study and need to focus. More effective than a Red Bull that's for sure

Hmm, not sure about the emotional dulling. Piracetam is very sublte (and I'm still taking it). I can't say that it has anything unique except it is very cost effective (and has much better research behind it). Keep in mind this could all be placebo, however I didn't feel these effects with Ani, I and I had high hopes because it supposedly has unique effects that Piracetam doesn't.

You should give Pram a try. It seems really expensive, but 150mg 2x a day is good sized dose 250mg 2x like I'm doing might be overkill. At 300mg-500mg a day 25g lasts a couple of months.

[JChief]

I am going to after I finish my Noopept + Piracetam trial. I can't say enough good things about Noopept. It's like the effect never goes away. My mind is seemingly always sharp as a tack. I'm also not as compulsive (but just as obsessive lol). I am more productive on it (even when shitfaced drunk! sorta kidding). And when I wake up I have no problem getting out of bed ready to rock n roll as opposed to continuing to lie there like a slug wishing morning hadn't arrived so soon The bulk powder I would get costs $120 but I just did the math and the bulk order of 100grams from CH would be over 6 months worth @ ~500mg/day. It's bearable at that point. But it'll have to wait until I trial stacking pira with noopept.

Edited by JChief, 09 November 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[health_nutty]

The really noticable effects have all but gone away. The effects the first day were amost too stong and left me feeling (in hindsight) a bit manic. Now things have settled down and I still feel a boost but it is harder to discern. I don't get the irritability with Pram that I get with too much piracetam. I think this is a keeper, but at very low doses (150mg 2x a day). I tried 500mg just for kicks, but it seemed the same to me.

[chrono]

Nice reports, health_nutty (and everyone else). My success with piracetam has become someone intermittent, so I'll probably try either this or oxiracetam as a replacement sometime soon.

@health_nutty: have you tried this without piracetam, at all?

[canz]

Once I started taking 150mg twice per day the irritability and brain fog went away. However, I never noticed any of the "spongy" effects, verbal fluency or really anything significant for that matter. I stopped taking it. Went back to oxiracetam which definitely works for me. Oxi started to cause me a little anxiety after a month, so I decided to take piracetam with it to help with that (since pira is supposedly anxiolytic).

Chrono, I think you'd like oxiracetam. The effects hit me right away. I am able to close out all distractions and focus 100% on whatever task I'm doing.

[JChief]

Nice reports, health_nutty (and everyone else). My success with piracetam has become someone intermittent, so I'll probably try either this or oxiracetam as a replacement sometime soon.

@health_nutty: have you tried this without piracetam, at all?

Chrono, did you try to supplement with L-Glutamine at any point to attempt to bring back that piracetam "magic"? Just curious

[chrono]

Chrono, did you try to supplement with L-Glutamine at any point to attempt to bring back that piracetam "magic"? Just curious

I haven't, as I'm not convinced it's a great idea in the long term. I'd be willing to try it for the sake of experimentation, but I don't have any glutamine. Maybe I'll see if I can pick up a cheap product somewhere.

To clarify, it still works just great a lot of the time. But sometimes it doesn't, and I get that brain fog/pinched cortex feeling a lot more easily, especially on my second dose of the day. Tried several choline precursors without luck, so I'm a bit at a loss. I just figure I might as well try something that has a chance of working better anyway, though due to the price it may end up being oxiracetam instead. But I'm fascinated by pram, it seems to have effects for many that sort of like "piracetam's big brother." Doesn't seem like health_nutty is that impressed with it, unfortunately. My question about combining with piracetam was part curiosity, but also suggesting that the effect of combining racetams might not always be additive...

[Geovicsha]

Judging by this thread, have I been taking too much? I would fill up my gelatine cap, resulting in approximately 600mg; I'd have twice per day. I've taken a week and a half off due to a noticed tolerance. I took 600mg today and the affects seem to have returned. See my thread I just posted.

Perhaps I should continue a break from it and when I return, have about 100-200mg or so?

Good to see that there's a fair few others on the Pramobile!

[JChief]

Chrono, did you try to supplement with L-Glutamine at any point to attempt to bring back that piracetam "magic"? Just curious

I haven't, as I'm not convinced it's a great idea in the long term. I'd be willing to try it for the sake of experimentation, but I don't have any glutamine. Maybe I'll see if I can pick up a cheap product somewhere.

To clarify, it still works just great a lot of the time. But sometimes it doesn't, and I get that brain fog/pinched cortex feeling a lot more easily, especially on my second dose of the day. Tried several choline precursors without luck, so I'm a bit at a loss. I just figure I might as well try something that has a chance of working better anyway, though due to the price it may end up being oxiracetam instead. But I'm fascinated by pram, it seems to have effects for many that sort of like "piracetam's big brother." Doesn't seem like health_nutty is that impressed with it, unfortunately. My question about combining with piracetam was part curiosity, but also suggesting that the effect of combining racetams might not always be additive...

Which brings me to another point. Combining is NOT always the best. A couple days ago I had taken 750mg of aniracetam after taking 2g of piracetam 2 hours prior and I had, for the first time, the worst bout of irritability that I've ever experienced. I almost left work for the day since I had zero patience and was worried I'd not be myself. It subsided after a couple hours. Lesson learned. Combining racetams should be done so with caution. I'm convinced that in spite of the anxiolytic effects of the racetam family too much can cause the reverse it would appear. Be careful everyone. I will experiment with prami and oxi soon enough. I have my theories about both. And, as always, I will certainly share my experiences as I go.

[JChief]

Judging by this thread, have I been taking too much? I would fill up my gelatine cap, resulting in approximately 600mg; I'd have twice per day. I've taken a week and a half off due to a noticed tolerance. I took 600mg today and the affects seem to have returned. See my thread I just posted.

Perhaps I should continue a break from it and when I return, have about 100-200mg or so?

Good to see that there's a fair few others on the Pramobile!

Yeah the official dosage was to be 600mg per day (300mg twice per day). It has been clinically shown to have helpful effects at 150mg for less fortunate folks with AD. So yes indeed you may have taken too much. At the right dose racetams can behave one way but too much and, even though you probably won't die, it's enough to make one call it quits without having had a chance to benefit from them.

Edited by JChief, 17 November 2011 - 02:03 PM.