36 replies to this topic

[tham]

One-third of the world's population are actually infected
with Mycobacterium tuberculosis, though it remains dormant
or latent in most nonimmunocompromised people.

TB is on the rise in many countries. In Malaysia, immigrant
workers, such as Bangladeshis, Myanmars and Indonesians,
are a major contributing factor towards this.  I was told by one
source that many local professional office executives have been
fatally infected by travelling in the same LRTs (light rail transits,
commuter trains) with these immigrants.

Drug resistant strains are being encountered with increasing frequency.

http://www.msnbc.msn...ant-tb-rise-us/

http://medicine.org/...-united-states/

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-14902186

http://www.maptb.org.../returnoftb.htm


Standard six-to-nine month drug protocol for this condition
remains the same four used for the past forty years :

Rifampicin
Isoniazid
Pyrazinamide
Ethambutol

Other rifamycin derivatives (rifabutin, rifapentine, rifalazil,
rifacinna), the third and fourth generation quinolones -
levofloxacin, moxifloxacin, gatifloxacin and the macrolides -
clarithromycin, azithromycin - form the basis of second-line drugs.

Edited by tham, 13 December 2011 - 07:29 PM.

[The Immortalist]

And it doesn't make it better that people have been scared to death by the herp derp autism vaccine scare.

[tham]

Diagnosis of pleural effusions and pleural TB.

http://www.merckmanu...L_60_02_eps.gif

http://www.merckmanu...l_effusion.html



Algorithm for the diagnosis of pleural tuberculosis.
TBPE = Tuberculous pleural effusion.

http://www.archbronc...090862tab11.gif

http://thorax.bmj.co...i8/F1.large.jpg


Note that Ziehl-Neelsen staining of the pleural fluid
and pleural tissue is quite insensitive. Culturing the
mycobacteria in pleural tissue is moderately sensitive.

The highest sensitivity is the caseating granuloma with
a central necrosis.

" Demonstration of granulomas in a biopsy specimen is
diagnostic of tuberculous pleural effusion if the following
entities are ruled out: sarcoidosis, rheumatoid arthritis,
tularemia, and fungal disease. "

http://www.archbronc...090862tab09.gif

http://www.archbronc...&ident=13090862



" A review of the pleural biopsy yield from 2893 examinations
performed between 1958 and 1985 (published in 14 papers)
showed a diagnostic rate of 75% for tuberculosis and 57%
for carcinoma. "

http://thorax.bmj.co...uppl_2/ii8.full

[tham]

A reference to mullein by Lufega in the other
thread "Right Lung Infection" prompted a check
of this antique herb on Medline.

I knew that mullein had a versatile ancient history
of use for respiratory problems, but I didn't realize
it was such a potent herb against TB.

" What's in a Name ?  Can Mullein Weed Beat TB
Where Modern Drugs Are Failing ? "

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC2952292

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=21807390

Edited by tham, 20 December 2011 - 09:38 PM.

[tham]

The antique phenothiazine drug, thioridazine, against
MDR (multidrug resistant) and XDR (extensively drug
resistant) tuberculosis.


http://www.scitopics...and_XDR_TB.html

http://jac.oxfordjou...t/47/5/505.long

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC2936563

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC2851646


" Whereas drugs that target the bacterium are predicted to
lose effectiveness due to mutation of the bacterial target,
drugs that enhance killing by macrophages that normally
do not kill mycobacteria may yield a more effective form
of infections therapy caused by multidrug resistant M. tuberculosis. "

http://iv.iiarjourna...nt/22/1/69.long

[Lufega]

Tham, if you have access to Doctors that treat TB, I wonder how receptive they would be to the use Mullein as an adjuvant to normal therapy.

[Lufega]

This came out today out of India.  Cases of TB resistant to every drug.

http://www.wired.com...cible-tb-india/

[Luminosity]

tham, on 20 December 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Diagnosis of pleural effusions and pleural TB.

http://www.merckmanu...L_60_02_eps.gif

http://www.merckmanu...l_effusion.html



Algorithm for the diagnosis of pleural tuberculosis.
TBPE = Tuberculous pleural effusion.

http://www.archbronc...090862tab11.gif

http://thorax.bmj.co...i8/F1.large.jpg


Note that Ziehl-Neelsen staining of the pleural fluid
and pleural tissue is quite insensitive. Culturing the
mycobacteria in pleural tissue is moderately sensitive.

The highest sensitivity is the caseating granuloma with
a central necrosis.

" Demonstration of granulomas in a biopsy specimen is
diagnostic of tuberculous pleural effusion if the following
entities are ruled out: sarcoidosis, rheumatoid arthritis,
tularemia, and fungal disease. "

http://www.archbronc...090862tab09.gif

http://www.archbronc...&ident=13090862



" A review of the pleural biopsy yield from 2893 examinations
performed between 1958 and 1985 (published in 14 papers)
showed a diagnostic rate of 75% for tuberculosis and 57%
for carcinoma. "

http://thorax.bmj.co...uppl_2/ii8.full

Tham, I have no idea what most of this post means.  You might want to write it in plain English.

[rwac]

Quote

A cholesterol-rich diet accelerates bacteriologic sterilization in pulmonary tuberculosis.

Pérez-Guzmán C, Vargas MH, Quiñonez F, Bazavilvazo N, Aguilar A.

Source

Instituto Nacional de Enfermedades Respiratorias, Tlalpan 4502, CP 14080, México City, Mexico.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Hypocholesterolemia is common among tuberculous patients and is associated with mortality in miliary cases. Some in vitro studies have shown that cholesterol is necessary for the good functioning of macrophages and lymphocytes.
STUDY OBJECTIVES:

To determine whether a cholesterol-rich diet could accelerate sputum sterilization in patients with pulmonary tuberculosis.
DESIGN:

An 8-week follow-up, randomized, controlled trial carried out from March 2001 to January 2002.
SETTING:

A third-level hospital for respiratory diseases in Mexico City.
PATIENTS AND INTERVENTIONS:

Adult patients with newly diagnosed pulmonary tuberculosis were hospitalized for 8 weeks and randomly assigned to receive a cholesterol-rich diet (800 mg/d cholesterol [experimental group]) or a normal diet (250 mg/d cholesterol [control group]). All patients received the same four-drug antitubercular regimen (ie, isoniazid, rifampin, pyrazinamide, and ethambutol).
MEASUREMENTS AND RESULTS:

Every week, a quantitative sputum culture and laboratory tests were done and respiratory symptoms were recorded. Patients in the experimental group (10 patients) and the control group (11 subjects) were HIV-negative and harbored Mycobacterium tuberculosis that was fully sensitive to antitubercular drugs. Sterilization of the sputum culture was achieved faster in the experimental group, as demonstrated either by the percentage of negative culture findings in week 2 (80%; control group, 9%; p = 0.0019) or by the Gehan-Breslow test for Kaplan-Meier curves (p = 0.0037). Likewise, the bacillary population decreased faster (p = 0.0002) in the experimental group. Respiratory symptoms improved in both groups, but sputum production decreased faster in the experimental group (p < 0.05). Laboratory test results did not differ between the groups.
CONCLUSIONS:

A cholesterol-rich diet accelerated the sterilization rate of sputum cultures in pulmonary tuberculosis patients, suggesting that cholesterol should be used as a complementary measure in antitubercular treatment.
PMID: 15706008

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15706008

[tham]

Lufega, on 10 January 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Tham, if you have access to Doctors that treat TB, I wonder how receptive they would be to the use Mullein as an adjuvant to normal therapy.

Waste of time.

Firstly - virtually none would have heard of it.

Secondly - they would tell you not to mess around with
herbs or supplements you read about from the net.


I believe the attitude of allopathic doctors in Malaysia
is pretty much similar to that of the rest of the world
when it comes to suggesting alternative medicine.

Just a few weeks ago, I told my chest physician, who is
actually my former schoolmate, that resveratrol may reduce
the liver toxicity of the standard first-line TB drugs, according
to one study.


" Resve- what ?  What's that ?  You are going to kill yourself
reading and taking nonsense from the internet. "


Another perfect example is right here on this forum.
Remember what that doctor (couldn't be bothered to
remember his name - but was one of the moderators actually)
had to say when I suggested to Bill  (TheFirstImmortal)  nearly
three years ago that homeopathy had a good chance of saving him ?

" This is not the place for you to say this kind of thing ..... etc etc "


He's lucky I didn't lose my cool. The last time one moderator
behaved like that in an air defence forum which I had posted
in, I faxed a complaint to their UK management office which
ended in him being removed.

Edited by tham, 11 January 2012 - 10:14 PM.

[tham]

Lufega, on 11 January 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

This came out today out of India.  Cases of TB resistant to every drug.

http://www.wired.com...cible-tb-india/

Good find. I didn't even realise that it had already reached TDR.


http://chestjournal..../136/2/420.long

[niner]

tham, on 11 January 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

when I suggested to Bill  (TheFirstImmortal)  nearly
three years ago that homeopathy had a good chance of saving him ?

Tham, you seem like a really evidence-based person.  Is there something to homeopathy that we're all missing?   I'm sure you know what low regard it's held in by the conventional science community.  Are they throwing the baby out with the bathwater?  Is there good evidence that there's something useful there?  People often bring up the cases of solutions that are so dilute that there is only a statistical chance of finding a single molecule of the active agent.  Are you talking about something with a significant concentration?

[Lufega]

Tham,

I know exactly what you mean.  A few years ago, my friends mom, was losing her battle with multiple myeloma.  I didn't even know she had it until this point.  I mean, the lady was dying dude with only months to live.  I urged (to put it politely) the family to look at the volume of information on using curcumin to treat MM.  I showed them the blog "Margaret's Corner" and similar blogs of people getting positive results from curcumin.  I even offered to pay for everything.  Their reaction?  Nothing.  The same thing happened with my anatomy professor, a veteran surgeon.  She was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.  Again, I came out with the curcumin studies and offered to pay for everything.  Again, I was turned down.  Another case was of an 18 year old girl that my family knew.  She developed an osteosarcoma in the shoulder.  I even assisted in amputating her arm.  The survival rate from this type of cancer is low since it has a tendency to metastasize to the lung.  Indeed, this is what happened.  Again, I volunteered to help with research and supplements and again I was turned down.  She was dead less than a year later.  Dude, if I'm diagnosed with some terminal illness, I would be injecting arsenic into my veins if it even remotely helped.  But this is the lesson I learned over the years.  You can't help people that don't want to be helped.  Ignorance and fear always wins over will and perseverance.

Now, I also get involved when I am asked directly.  Even then, I now have my reservations.

[Lufega]

rwac, on 11 January 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

Quote

A cholesterol-rich diet accelerates bacteriologic sterilization in pulmonary tuberculosis.
PMID: 15706008

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15706008

Good find !  I bet vitamin A has a protective effect against this as well.  I got diet is still the best medicine.

[tham]

niner, on 11 January 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

tham, on 11 January 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

when I suggested to Bill (TheFirstImmortal) nearly
three years ago that homeopathy had a good chance of saving him ?

Tham, you seem like a really evidence-based person. Is there something to homeopathy that we're all missing? I'm sure you know what low regard it's held in by the conventional science community. Are they throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Is there good evidence that there's something useful there? People often bring up the cases of solutions that are so dilute that there is only a statistical chance of finding a single molecule of the active agent. Are you talking about something with a significant concentration?

"Held in low regard" by the "conventional scientific community".

That is their viewpoint and their bloody business, they can think what
they like. And they have very good reasons to "hold it in low regard."

Years ago, the Malaysian Medical Association tried to suppress homeopathy,
just as the AMA tried to when it was first introduced over there in the early
19th century. They haven't made much progress so far.

As one of my friends mentioned, it was only natural that they did this - to
protect their own "rice bowl", or livelihood. In plain English, they saw
homeopathy as a threat to their profession and naturally tried to do
everything in their power to eradicate it.

Homeopathy is most popular amongst the Malays here, followed by
the Indians and Chinese. The majority of the homeopathic doctors
here are Malays.

And if you think that the concept of dilution to infinitesimal potencies is
ridiculous and totally the scientific reverse of what we have been taught,
try potentizing Sulfur to 5CM, add just one drop to a glass of water, drink
that for a few days and see what happens.


    CM = 1/100,000

   5CM = 1/100,000 to the power of 5


Surely nothing more than distilled water, right ?


This "shorty" sitting behind me in the office is a troublemaker
and your typical "brown nose", causing me endless problems
at times.

Years ago, I decided to get even. I went to my homeopathic doctor,
asked him to potentize Sulfur to 5CM. He grudgingly did it for me
after asking me the reason for such a high potency, fearing for the
worst.

I took the bottle of "distilled water" back to the office, and added
just ONE DROP to the shorty's mug of water when he was out
for lunch.


Over the next few days, shorty started coughing, which developed
into a hacking one by two weeks. He was coughing so horrifyingly
and loudly that I feared that I may well have brought out TB or
whooping cough in him !

The homeopathic term for this is "proving". If you potentize something
- whether a herb, mineral, element or drug - high enough, or even give
a low potency remedy often enough, it will bring out the same ailment
which that remedy was supposed to treat , possibly some deepseated
disease which had been dormant in the patient.

Shorty went seeking treatment from doctor to doctor, to no avail.

Luckily for him, the coughing subsided over the next few months.

[niner]

Tham, I think the problem that the scientific community has with homeopathy is that there's a lack of evidence of efficacy.  What is the definition of "potentizing"?  What do you mean by "sulfur"?  Elemental sulfur is essentially insoluble in water, so I'm not sure how one would proceed with that experiment.  Is there any solid evidence that homeopathy works and can be reproduced?  I'm not even looking for a theoretical explanation, because I presume that if it's doing something useful, the mechanism is at present not understood.  That's ok though, since you don't need a MOA for a medicine to be useful.  If you did in fact poison your coworker, you probably shouldn't admit it online.  In some countries you could be arrested for that.

[tham]

Don't worry, there's no law by which you can incriminate a
person of trying to "poison" another with a homeopathic remedy,
which itself it not recognized medically to have any therapeutic
or chemical effect anyway, by virtue of its infinitesimal dilution
(supposed to be "distilled water").

My intention was just to cause him some discomfort. In fact,
he should have me to thank for, as I had very likely brought out
or detoxified him of some serious lung condition like cancer,
before it was able to manifest in later life.

The fact that it caused him to cough so badly indicated that
he already had some deepseated lung condition which had
not yet manifested at that time, i.e. it was insidious.


Sulfur as in the element sulfur. Potentize is dilution or titration.
The homeopathic principle is as you dilute a substance, it becomes
more potent with each successive dilution.

http://www.thebee.se...CE/Potprobl.htm

http://www.homeopath...nting-the-exact

http://www.remedia.a...opathy/jmp.html

http://www.isbellmed...entization.html


I believe that homeopathic doctor used a radionics machine to
make the sulfur potency for me at that time. Seems they have
more sophisticated radionics machines now.

http://www.se-5.com/ther.html


The principles of homeophatic potentization has been compared
to that of quantum physics at times.


When I phoned another homeopathic doctor about the remedy
for TB, he would say that, offhand, without seeing the patient,
to start with three doses of Tuberculinum 200C.

I was concerned about the risk of "proving" the disease out
with such a moderately high potency, but he explained that
would not be possible with just three doses.

http://www.herbs2000...uberculinum.htm

Edited by tham, 13 January 2012 - 09:55 PM.

[tham]

Luminosity, on 11 January 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

tham, on 20 December 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Diagnosis of pleural effusions and pleural TB.

http://www.merckmanu...L_60_02_eps.gif

http://www.merckmanu...l_effusion.html



Algorithm for the diagnosis of pleural tuberculosis.
TBPE = Tuberculous pleural effusion.

http://www.archbronc...090862tab11.gif

http://thorax.bmj.co...i8/F1.large.jpg


Note that Ziehl-Neelsen staining of the pleural fluid
and pleural tissue is quite insensitive. Culturing the
mycobacteria in pleural tissue is moderately sensitive.

The highest sensitivity is the caseating granuloma with
a central necrosis.

" Demonstration of granulomas in a biopsy specimen is
diagnostic of tuberculous pleural effusion if the following
entities are ruled out: sarcoidosis, rheumatoid arthritis,
tularemia, and fungal disease. "

http://www.archbronc...090862tab09.gif

http://www.archbronc...&ident=13090862



" A review of the pleural biopsy yield from 2893 examinations
performed between 1958 and 1985 (published in 14 papers)
showed a diagnostic rate of 75% for tuberculosis and 57%
for carcinoma. "

http://thorax.bmj.co...uppl_2/ii8.full

Tham, I have no idea what most of this post means. You might want to write it in plain English.

The lung's pleura is described here.

http://en.wikipedia..../Pleural_cavity


Pleural TB is where the bacterium has invaded the pleura, but not
necessarily reached the lung yet. The second of my chest physicians
explained that it is the stage between primary (latent) and post-primary TB.

It is a comparatively milder form of TB.

Pleural TB may give rise to pleural effusion, a buildup of fluid in the pleural cavity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001150/

http://my.clevelandc...s_overview.aspx


The diagnosis of pleural TB, or any form of TB for that matter,
is not a straightforward matter, Mycobacteria are quite elusive.

Thus the algorithm or flowchart given above.

Many times, staining for the bacteria in the pleural fluid or pleural tissue
(taken from a biopsy) using techniques like the Ziehl-Neelsen stain which
turns them red, may not reveal them.

Culturing them from the pleural tissue has a better chance of revealing
them, but not always, as it is not easy to culture TB bacteria.

The best method and most reliable method of diagnosing pleural TB
is the biopsy itself. The tissue usually shows granulomas, which are
simply inflamed tissue caused macrophages and lymphocytes which have
migrated there in an attempt to wall off the invaders.

These granulomas tend to have necrosis, that is, a destruction of cells,
in the center. This is a hallmark of pleural TB. In addition, the granulomas
may be caseating, that is, they have a cheesy appearance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC517572/

These granulomas have been shown in Ark's thread, scroll up.


The TB bacteria can lie dormant in these macrophages, which have
engulfed, but not killed them (just as they do the same to HIV). I believe
this is what happens in latent TB (1/3 of the population), whereby the
bacteria can activate in people whose immune system is down, as in AIDS.

http://www.plospatho...al.ppat.1000204

http://www.nejm.org/...NEJMcibr0902539


Such granulomas can also be formed in other infections like sarcoidosis,
histoplasmosis, tularemia and conditions like rheumatoid arthritis.

However, the chest physician told me that only TB can cause such
necrotic granulomas WITH pleural effusion.

Thus if your biopsy reveals these granulomas in the pleural tissue,
and you have a pleural effusion at the same time, it's TB for sure.

Edited by tham, 18 January 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[tham]

" The Granuloma in Tuberculosis — Friend or Foe ? "

http://www.nejm.org/...NEJMcibr0902539

[Luminosity]

Thanks.  That was half-way understandable.  Do you think the public health doctors in Washington State would be capable of diagnosing and treating Ark?

[tham]

Luminosity, on 19 January 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Thanks. That was half-way understandable. Do you think the public health doctors in Washington State would be capable of diagnosing and treating Ark?

Why not ?  You don't need a glossy high-tech hospital
like that "Multicare Center" he went to.

My first chest physician, in his small clinic located in
a shophouse, but with over 30 years experience, said
that pleural effusion almost always means one of two things :

1. TB
2. Lung cancer

A third would be pneumonia, but then such a morbid patient
would have been ambulanced to a hospital and not coming
to his clinic.


This was why I asked for his ESR.

" All patients of pleural tuberculosis presented in this
medicine unit had fever and cough associated with
chest pain dysnoea (42.4%), haemoptysis (9.1%),
weight loss (84.4%), anorexia (90.9%). "

" ... 60.7% patients were below 30. Mean Erythrocyte
Sedimentation Rate (ESR) was 97.04 mm in 1st hour
and 57.6% cases had ESR more than 100.

" 63.6% had Mantoux Test (MT) positive (>10 mm).
(i..e. 36.4 % were negative - so why can his doctors
undertand that his test was so ? Like I said, this is
an unreliable test to use on its own to diagnose TB.) "

" Of the total patient treated with anti TB drug, 53.5% had
no pleural effusion, other had minimum effusion. Only 6.06%
require subsequent steroid addition and other measures.
Pleural biopsy is the investigations of choice for pleural tuberculosis
especially in resource poor countries. Pleural tuberculosis can be
treated with a standard anti-TB regime successfully without steroid. "


http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=20395911



In a prospective study of 118 patients with pleural effusion,
tuberculosis (TB) was diagnosed in 112.

" .... or by the presence of caseating granulomas in histological sections.

The highest diagnostic yield was obtained by histology (85%) .... "

" We conclude that conventional facilities of a referral hospital are
sufficient to diagnose tuberculous pleuritis as well as disseminated
tuberculosis irrespective of HIV infection. However, for regions with
overstretched health services and high prevalences of tuberculous
pleurisy in patients with pleural effusion we suggest a simplified
diagnostic approach based on exclusion of other causes of pleural
effusion by simple means and use of these diagnostic markers. "


http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=7855915

[Luminosity]

The TB control unit in his country said that they referred people to public health clinics for a skin test.  That appears to be their only diagnostic resource.  

What you wrote was only about 20% understandable.  I have a genius I.Q. and am a native English speaker.  It would help if you would word your writings in plain English, if possible.  

If I understand you correctly, over 30% of people thought to have TB have a negative skin test?  But apparently the public health authorities in Washington State are the last to know about this.  

If you run across the name of a doctor in the Washington State area who knows a lot about TB or similar lung diseases, let us know.  Maybe the person has published a paper, or spoken at a conference or something like that.

[niner]

Luminosity, on 21 January 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

What you wrote was only about 20% understandable.  I have a genius I.Q. and am a native English speaker.

And I'm the Queen of England.  If you're really a "genius", you could probably figure out how to look in a medical dictionary for the terms you don't understand, or maybe the inscrutable Wikipedia.

[tham]

I am from Malaysia, so won't know about any experienced American
chest doctors.

As I have pointed out at least twice, the tuberculin, or Mantoux, test
is of limited value and CANNOT be used a sole diagnostic tool for TB.

It is nothing more than a simple skin test costing maybe $10-20 in the US,
and about M$40 here.


Read again the links I had given before on it.

1. Poor specificity (many false positives)
2. Poor sensitivity (many false negatives)


The abovementioned chest physician says it is USELESS and he has
never relied on it in his 30-year practice of diagnosing and treating TB.

However, used as part of a proper diagnostic procedure - x-rays, pleural
biopsy, blood tests and overall clinical sypmtoms, it can be a useful guide.


Dr Yung is one of the most experienced chest physicians in Malaysia,
coming from one of the pioneer TB hospitals here, Lady Templer.

After leaving Lady Templer, he did not practise in any private hospital,
but just ran a simple clinic in a housing estate in Kuala Lumpur till today.

https://www.nsr.org....ialistAppID=352


" Return of an Old Scourge "

http://www.maptb.org.../NST010707.html

[tham]

His lyme may explain the false negative result.

IV. Efficacy: False Negatives

9. Comorbid systemic infection


http://www.fpnoteboo...brclnSknTst.htm

[tham]

" Of 111 patients with pleural effusion, malignancy was the
commonest cause of pleural effusion (34.2 percent), followed
by tuberculosis (22.5 percent) and parapneumonic effusions
(18.9 percent). There were only two patients (1.8 percent)
with undetermined cause despite extensive investigations. "

" In tuberculous pleural effusion, pleural fluid staining for
acid-fast bacilli was negative in all cases but mycobacterial
culture was positive in 24 percent of cases while pleural
biopsy gave a better yield of 68.8 percent. "

" A combination of these investigations yielded the diagnosis
in 92 percent of patients with tuberculous effusion. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16810434


" Pleural biopsy was a more sensitive method of diagnosis
with granulomatous inflammation seen in 97% of cases. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1745850

Edited by tham, 21 January 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[tham]

Pleural TB (classified as extrapulmonary) is actually relatively rare
compared to pulmonary TB - about 4 per cent of new TB cases.

It tends to occur more often in older people, those above 65.

http://chestjournal....131/4/1125.long


However, Ark said he was in Fiji, a still endemic TB country.


Tuberculosis Pleurisy

" This usually develops soon after initial infection. A granuloma located at
the edge of the lung ruptures into the pleural space, the space between
the lungs and the chest wall. Usually, a couple of tablespoons of fluid can
be found in the pleural space. Once the bacteria invade the space, the
amount of fluid increases dramatically and compresses the lung, causing
shortness of breath (dyspnea) and sharp chest pain that worsens with a
deep breath (pleurisy). A chest x-ray shows significant amounts of fluid.
Mild- or low-grade fever commonly is present. Tuberculosis pleurisy
generally resolves without treatment; however, two-thirds of patients
with tuberculosis pleurisy develop active pulmonary TB within 5 years. "

http://www.healthcom...pes.shtml#pleur


Langhans giant cells are also usually present in the granulomas.

http://en.wikipedia....hans_giant_cell

[Luminosity]

Anything worth saying is can be said in plain English.  I wish you would.

[tham]

How "plain" is plain English ?

Goodness, I thought the explanations, extracts and links were
plain, easy and clear-cut enough to be understood by almost all,
particularly the more scientifically-inclined minds who take
part in this forum ?

The wording and contents of the last post don't even require
a scientific mind to understand.

And I have already explained what a granuloma is twice - the first time
in Ark's thread, and another here.

If I had to repeat every one of my posts again in "plain" kindergarten
English, I won't have time to make some supplement orders, which
I am supposed to have done weeks ago.

Incidentally, Healthspan in the UK is having its annual halfprice sale.
Lots of bargains.

I recommend artichoke extract to protect your liver. Ark should
take this since many of the TB drugs including rifampicin, isoniazid
and particularly pyrazinamide, will screw up his liver.

I am about to finish mine, so will probably be ordering another box.

http://www.healthspa...-p219-c118.aspx



Their "50 Plus" multi obviously can't compare with the formulas
taken by the life extensionists here, but nevertheless is good
value for money for a one-a-day basic.

I've tried a bottle a few years ago, so may order a couple more
for my brother and brother-in-law. Note that it is not on sale though.

They had packed it in very good airtight plastic containers then,
but now have it in strips.

http://www.healthspa...-p341-c157.aspx


Their selenium (yeast) is also a good buy, even if not on sale.

http://www.healthspa...8-c3193496.aspx

Edited by tham, 23 January 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[Luminosity]

There's a lot of territory between kindergarten and a medical degree.  That wasn't necessary.  But you are getting clearer.