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Epitalon (Split from Astragalus thread)


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#61 AdamI

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:27 PM

before you get carried away you should read the whole of this paper. The crucial facts are in the tables and graphs at the end. The epitalon treated group had a lower average life span.


Interesting. Note the food consumption in table 2: The epitalon mice were little oinkers! Except for the 3 and 18 month numbers, the epitalon mice were eating close to twice as much as the controls. Same body weight and temp though. The median lifespan was lower, but looking at the survival curves, it doesn't actually look that bad. About 20% of the mice died very young, and I think that may be skewing the statistics a bit. Probably was some bad husbandry there. The survival number that reaches statistical significance is the last 10%, so that's more likely to be a real signal than the other numbers. You do raise a good point regarding the risk/reward calculation- you have a 90% chance of at best no result, if you are anything like a female SHR mouse.



Yes I reacted to this as well, for us normal mortals we get alot shorter lifespan the more calories we eat. It's a direct correlation. For exampel a human that "starve" and eat 10% less than a normal human lives 10% longer.
Soo that the mice at twice as much but didn't get that much shorter lifespan and even longer lifespan according to the studies own Results/analys in the end.
the amount given epitalon is also very little in the study, they got 5 doses of 0,000004 gram per kilo. That equals to a person of 80kg of 0,32 mg. And also they didn't get this dose every day but only 5 doses every month. That only equals to 50 doses during there lifespan.
If a human only would take 50 doses during it lifespan of 0,32mg, once every1-2 years. One would think it would even notice any difference.
Now obviously splitting 50 doses during awhole human lifespan might be a bit stupied comparison.
But still would be interesting to see if the mouses got 10 times stronger and maybe every third day a new dose...
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#62 AdamI

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:38 PM

Forgot to mention a thing, a new discovery/study on the hormone Irisin. It was done in sweden I think. Heard about it on the news this week.
They gave some rats/mice the hormone Irisin what happened was that much white fat in the body changed to brown fat. Old people have a very high amount of white fat. While young/kids have alot brown fat. Brown fat is very different though according to the report the brown fat burns fat.
Soo maybe these mouses with epitalon got more brown fat.
The report concluded that it could be an effective way of reducing weight in humans, and since the hormone already exist in our bodies it is not an foreign chemical/substance...

#63 Hebbeh

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:34 PM

I agree with Howard's and AdamI's observations. I will be giving this a go soon and see what anecdotal observations, if any, I can add.

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#64 sciwalk

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:32 PM

Yes, sorry, that is something that I had not mentioned, on this peptide you do want to eat more. I did not make a direct correlation between the peptide and the increased hunger until I have now started onto the peptide again. If I am not careful I find myself eating WAY more then usual and can eat again in a short time. I have to remind myself that I have already eatin and don't need more. The feeling will subside (can control it mentally) but it is easy to forget and start eating again. I also have not gained any weight.
I will try harder to reduce my calories but on the other hand I may want to increase my protein as I am blasting through my workouts like they are nothing. Maybe that has an additional effect on my hunger? I will go out and look for a high protein, low carb, shake today and start supplimenting with that.

Oh, and ya, I did get the peptide, started on it last week. I never was able to find DMSO but after speaking with the lab and what the peptide was stable in, I have decided to mix my peptide with Sake. Yes, that is right, Sake. The alcohol will keep the peptide stable and also increase absorbtion subligual. So I mixed 50 drops with a single vial of the peptide into a dropper and take 3 drops a day (keeping the dropper in the fridge).

I have a couple more kits of 100mg if anyone else wanted to test it out on their mice? My brother is in the middle of a move so he can't take his now.

#65 smithx

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:04 AM

Sciwalk: what lab produced it? Also, what's the cost of 100mg?

#66 AdamI

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:22 AM

Sciwalk,
Did your hunger subside after ending the peptide and then it came back when you started again?
Wondering since I was hoping the hunger or the effect of the peptide would linger on for sometime, you know making the body young soo the hunger feeling would persist a long time after ending it...

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#67 PWAIN

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:30 AM

Anyone found a reasonably priced source for this?

#68 zorba990

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 06:39 PM

Epitalon versus colon cancer
http://www.spandidos...m/ijmm/12/4/473

Direct to brain through nasal administration:
http://www.mendeley....-rat-neocortex/

this stuff is looking better and better now where can we get some?
edit: This looks reasonable http://www.synthetic...com/pricing.htm

Edited by zorba990, 21 January 2012 - 07:06 PM.


#69 Googoltarian

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

This looks reasonable http://www.synthetic...com/pricing.htm

They are probably using robots to make those peptides, and this method is not cost-effective for larger amounts, but is excellent for quick preparation of simple peptides. If there is a published method for preparation in solution (not on resin), thats the way to go in my opinion.

Also check Epitalon page on wikigenes for interesting read. Other nice peptides -> Cortagen, Livagen, and Vilon.

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#70 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:29 PM

Got it today... now it's off to the lab..

It looks quite coarse.

A
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#71 niner

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:51 PM

Got it today... now it's off to the lab..

It looks quite coarse.


Cool. This coarseness, do you think it's a sign of impurity, or is it just an artifact of crystallization or some such thing? It might be worth shooting a few mics through the HPLC...

#72 Hebbeh

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:12 PM

Been using 3mg the last 3 nites before bed dissolved in vodka (since it's a Russian drug!) Sublingually. Definitely doing something. Had more appetite the last 2 days and have to watch my food intake. Didn't sleep well last nite...woke frequently with very vivid and realistic dreams which is unusual and as such will cut back to 2mg tonight. Libido also seems higher in the morning.

#73 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:01 PM

Got it today... now it's off to the lab..

It looks quite coarse.


Cool. This coarseness, do you think it's a sign of impurity, or is it just an artifact of crystallization or some such thing? It might be worth shooting a few mics through the HPLC...



The package came with this... I assume it's pure at the moment.

hmmmmmm.... just curious, do you have an HPLC handy niner?

A

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Edited by Anthony_Loera, 24 January 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#74 AdamI

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:34 PM

Been using 3mg the last 3 nites before bed dissolved in vodka (since it's a Russian drug!) Sublingually. Definitely doing something. Had more appetite the last 2 days and have to watch my food intake. Didn't sleep well last nite...woke frequently with very vivid and realistic dreams which is unusual and as such will cut back to 2mg tonight. Libido also seems higher in the morning.


Sounds good Hebbeh, had the same reaction, had problem sleeping also some apetite increase. Also had the same reaction when I took TA-65 soo for me it's a sign it works, that is extending the telomeres

#75 niner

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 01:07 AM

just curious, do you have an HPLC handy niner?


No, it's been a while since I had access to one.

#76 AdamI

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:28 PM

Hi,
I was wondering about Resveratrol and hope someone knows about it and is kind enought to answer. Even though its the wrong forum... But I have read that Resveratrol helps Glucose to transfer through the cell. What does this mean, I know some study say that Resveratrol might induce or inhibit telomerase. Is there a chance that it also promote the substances that promote telomerase production to easier pass through what ever it has to pass through...

#77 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:19 PM

Hi folk, it seems that epithalone does not increase span of life as it is shown here http://no-aging.ru/supplements-animals
It did not increase life of rats and mice. "
Group 1 female LIO rats were maintained on a 12h dark:light cycle (LD); Group 2, were maintained on illumination mimicking that at Petrozavodsk State University (NL); and Group 3 were maintained on constant light (LL) (n=40 to 55/group). Half of each of the 3 groups received Epithalon or vehicle. Epithalone had no effect on mean LS. Epithalone reduced the max LS of LD rats but increased the max LS of NL and LL rats relative to LD rats. No information regarding food intake or bw was given.
Evaluation: Epithalone may increase the max LS of photoperiod stressed rats, although a CR effect cannot be excluded because neither food intake nor bw were reported." And this research was made by one of the inventors of epithalone Khavinson VK.
So it is worth spending much money on the drug that does not increase life span?

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#78 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:21 PM

Male LIO rats were maintained on 3 different dark:light regimen (see Study information and evaluation of (Vinogradova et al. 2007), above. Half of each group received Epithalon. The peptide had no significant effect on mean or max LS. No information regarding food intake or bw were presented.
Evaluation: Epithalone does not increase the LS of control or photoperiod stressed male rats. These results appear at odds with those cited immediately above.

#79 Hebbeh

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

Epitalon seems to have many interesting effects and for me, it isn't about how long I may live but more about the quality of life as I age...or as they say, aging gracefully. I've seen many live into their 90's but have no quality of life. What good is living to 100 just to spend the last 20 years bedridden on oxygen? I've seen it happen and that isn't for me....I'd rather just die than linger for years with no mobility and no quality of life. And no matter what, longevity will never be and can never be guaranteed. So for me, the more important aspect is not absolute longevity but being as active and able to enjoy as much as possible whatever life I may have. With that said, my goals are to be able to stay as active at 80 or 90 as at 60. (after all, 75 is the new 65). So that is my hope for Epitalon. I've been experimenting for a week now and it is obviously too soon to see what it may do long term, but I can say that I have been pleased at least initially.
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#80 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 09:30 PM

That's interesting! Keep us informed about the results! Of course, all of us want to be active and lively till the end. I just wanted to say that if you are limited in the sense of budget you may think about other cheaper options to increase quality of life. For example, methylene blue is very cheap and lasts for months if not years. And the fact is that you may spend those money on no less effective but really life-improving substances like green-tea extract, noopept and bacopa moneira, DMAE and phosphatidyl choline. Also have you tried to take nicotinic acid? It's super cheap but yet powerful. I suffered from cold hands and feeling of cold all the time until I started to take it. And now everything changed - I feel warmth in body, I became more active and lively definitely. And all these cheap means also help you to stay lively. The fact that epitalon restores telomerase but does not increase life looks suspicious and strange to me. If it does good to the body the body should last longer, shouldn't it? Anyway if it really does miracles for elder people, it should worth spending funds on it.

#81 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 09:33 PM

Also, have anyone heard about group of life-extending peptides called cytamins produced in Russia in Saint-Petersburg. They are specifically developed to restore different body systems. They are extracted from brains of animals. Has anyone tried and got any positive results?
http://cytamins.ru/production.html It's in Russian but I think you may try to translate via google.

#82 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 09:37 PM

By the way Khavinson is one of the guys who developed cytamins. Other scientists were Yakovlev, Morozov and Malinin. It seems it is the same crew which developed Epithalone.

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#83 Hebbeh

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:07 PM

Yes, I tried methylene blue repeatedly at all dosing schemes but it didn't agree with me...always made me feel worse at every dose I tried. For mental well being, uridine has been exceptional for me....there are a couple active threads in nootropics forum. I have a laundry list of other supplements...resveratrol near the top. The most impressive effect of Epitalon so far after a week has been the boost in libido. I'm 54 so that has been enjoyable! It's very apparent in the morning! There have been other noticeable effects also. Increased appetite and exceptional work outs at the gym this week but we will see how it goes long term. Another effect that has been interesting is very vivid dreams....but not sure if that is such a good thing as not all dreams are necessarily good dreams. I'll update as time goes on.

#84 Nootr

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:19 PM

Would like to try it too! Looks exciting.
Among cytamins I tried only Timusamin. This hormone is present in bodies of teenagers and then the body stops to produce it. It restores immune system. I took the double dose during eight days and it did miracle - I looked 5 years younger. But the funny thing is that in two weeks after that I got influenza - probably the dose was too much and the recommended dose should not be exceeded.
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#85 Hebbeh

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:06 PM

That sounds interesting...would definitely be interested. Yeah, I feel I've been pushing the dose on Epitalon. Experimenting between 1.5 and 3mg sublingual before bed. Mostly 3mg but 3 mg definitely jacks up the dreams...but the libido too. I think I'm going to find the sweet spot around 2-2.5mg.

#86 AdamI

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:12 PM

Also, have anyone heard about group of life-extending peptides called cytamins produced in Russia in Saint-Petersburg. They are specifically developed to restore different body systems. They are extracted from brains of animals. Has anyone tried and got any positive results?
http://cytamins.ru/production.html It's in Russian but I think you may try to translate via google.


Easiest way to translate the page is to go to http://translate.goo...translate_tools and apply the english button as an icon in your web browser, then you can just hit the english button and it translate the language to english.

#87 AdamI

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:21 PM

Yes, I tried methylene blue repeatedly at all dosing schemes but it didn't agree with me...always made me feel worse at every dose I tried. For mental well being, uridine has been exceptional for me....there are a couple active threads in nootropics forum. I have a laundry list of other supplements...resveratrol near the top. The most impressive effect of Epitalon so far after a week has been the boost in libido. I'm 54 so that has been enjoyable! It's very apparent in the morning! There have been other noticeable effects also. Increased appetite and exceptional work outs at the gym this week but we will see how it goes long term. Another effect that has been interesting is very vivid dreams....but not sure if that is such a good thing as not all dreams are necessarily good dreams. I'll update as time goes on.


If anyone wnat better Libido you might want to try http://supplementspo...nbanner_picture
Seems to be very popular some new product Supplementspot have taken in, they are pumping with info on it anyway. As far as I have experienced they have a good reputation.
Text from page:
"We absolutely guarantee that if you take our capsules, 2 daily, for 60 days, that you will experience prostate health. A full 97% of the men who order Maximum Prostate reorder again and again, and they tell their friends and doctors."

#88 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:50 PM

"We absolutely guarantee that if you take our capsules, 2 daily, for 60 days, that you will experience prostate health"

Seriously... what does that mean?

A
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#89 sciwalk

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:58 AM

Hmmm, that is the second time that someone has qouted that study which was actually geared around testing more for cancer then for telomere activity. Those were very low amounts which they found do inhibit cancer but also you will note they, same group, have done plenty of other studies at higher levels of Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly that had positive reaction on telomerase and on logevity of mice. That being said, at this point in time there is no gaurantees but the peptide, compared to most other activators, is not that expensive and I think it is going to be coming down even farther, soon, so I don't get that comment about high cost.

I have had additional things happening that I, sorry, just have not had time to get back here and report about. We are just wrapping up this insanely long holiday (Chinese New Year) and with the kids out of school, its a bit hectic. Any way, for over 4 years now, the right side of my left big toe, from tip to the base of the large knuckle, has been completely numb from damage caused by gout. In addition, my index finger of my right hand, on the exterior, also has been numb for the past 2 years because I have a bad habit of using that finger like a shoe horn and have damaged the nerves in the finger. All of the feeling is back in my toe and I am getting feeling back in my finger now. It feels like when your have had frost bite and then starts to thaw with periods of time that it has near full feeling without any pain. I am really excited about this, could it be that my nerves are repairing?? That would be fantastic and hold a lot of promise for a lot of people I know. I also had some extensive damage in my face due to herpes. At one point it caused the left side of my lower jaw and some of the left side of my upper lip to go numb for over 6 months. Although the feeling came back, from that time on I have had a droop on the left side of my face, similar but not quite as drastic as having had a stroke. I beleive that it is rasing up. I am going to have to take some very careful pictures and repeated measurments to gauge this closely but to me it is quite obvious. I was not expecting that so I did not take any pictures specifically for that condition prior to taking the peptide but I will go through other pictures I have of myself and hope I can find some that can show this droop clearly and use as comparison.
I have gotten use to the dreams, just seems normal now and definately not bothering my sleep.
Now to the gross, sorry again, but, my bowl movements have increased. I used to be lucky if I had 2 a day, usually only 1. Now, without fail, it is up to 4 or 5 a day. Please forgive the discussion but I think it is important to note. The quailty is also very good. I had thought this might be due to the inceased hunger but I have been careful over the past couple of weeks to not give in to that and have kept a quality diet, kept my portions and meals down to what is right for my daily routine and yet bowl movments stay up.
I had thought earlier that my eye sight might be improving. Well, that is only half true. My left eye has improved for far sight and my right eye has improved for near sight but opposing directions on both eyes have worsened. This is not a drastic difference but enough for my optomologist to pick up and according to him is not unusual. It is almost a way for my eyes to compensate for some loss and the one seeing well far and the other seeing near helps me to see OK for both distances. So I think, for now, i can say that was a false positive.
Gray hair, this has definately decreased. I used to have gray hair from my temples (side burns) all the way to the back of my ears. I now only have some around the temples. Is this normal, can gray hair decrease on its own sometimes in nature? I will do some more research on this.
I think I have decrease now in the wrinkles around my eyes, my wife says it is the same, LOL!! Maybe she is right, more time and pictures will tell.
Speaking of my wife, she has started on this latest trial along with me. Every since our first child she has had extreme bouts of Premenstrual Syndrome. I am not talking about some mood swings, crying, cramps and such, I am talking about full on, drastic emotional swings from thinking that the world is her oyster one minute to seriously considering suicide the next. Once it starts it builds on itself until it gets the point, quite often, that I have to just hold her to keep her from breaking things or hurting her self. Her emotions have been incredibly level and her mood fantastic up until the day before yesterday. She had forgotten to take the peptide for 2 days and yesterday her cycle started. She had a pretty big blow out but it did not last too long. I made sure that she started back on her peptide that night and reminded her that up until that time she has been incredibly level headed and happy. She did not believe me and asked our kids who told her, "Please don't stop taking your drops". That was a very strong feeling. I know that one of the things that the peptide has been shown in studies to do is to reinvigorate the reproductive system but, again, I was not expecting this kind of result. When we go off I will have to see what happens and then again when we start back up again. This I am very very interested in following up, it has had a very profound effect on our family.
Once we are done with this current 100mg we will take a month off and start again.
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#90 AdamI

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:10 AM

"We absolutely guarantee that if you take our capsules, 2 daily, for 60 days, that you will experience prostate health"

Seriously... what does that mean?

A


I'm guessing they can't write more directly what it does. Have to be documentet otherwise right?




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