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Anxiolytic nootropic additions

anxiolytic

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#1 dreth7

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:00 AM


Background: (Long time lurker, first time poster)

I first began dabbling with nootropics back in September and have had decent results to date. My current stack consists of priacetam, cdp choline, alcar, fish oil, PS, lions mane, bacopa, and gotu kola. Intermittently I use sulbutiamine, picamilon, aniracetam, huperzine-A, and pyritinol.

Anxyolitic Concern:

I do not deem myself a nervous person by any means. However, coming up in a month are my dual admission med school interviews. They are guaranteed admission to pre-med and med school at selected universities. I have been reviewing typical med school interview questions daily and am trying to build confidence the natural way. I am looking for anything that would give me an edge over my competition. The process is very selective and my competition is by no means lacking intellectual capacity. Are there any supplements that would really help me stay calm and focused on the big days? I have heard the racetams are very anxyiolitc, but being a normally collected person I have never noticed their effects.

Thanks for the time guys!

#2 khemix

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:11 AM

I don't know if I can be of much help because I'm still looking for the golden ticket to treat anxiety myself. I tend to be very apprehensive and nervous in general however. Having said that, intermittently, GABA substances give me a clean calm. The GABA substances I use include:

Theanine - 200mg (or a cup of green tea - highly reccommended, contains the theanine)
Lemon Balm - 50-100mg
Phenibut - 250mg

One thing you should be wary of is these substances tend to make some people drowsy, and you develop tolerance to them rapidly over the course of a week. I have also heard good things about ashwagandha, but I only just recieved that and haven't tried it yet so can't comment. I would suggest you give whatever you take a try to make sure you don't get negative effects, and then start taking them a day or two before your interviews.

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#3 nupi

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:29 AM

Bacopa and Ashwaghanda are likely better options than Theanine (the others I dont know but from what I read about Phenibut, I would stay away from it at all costs) they are less sedating (still sedating though) and more overall feel good (Bacopa for one has some limited studies finding definite antidepressant properties).

#4 Raptor87

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:43 AM

Here is some interesting information on target areas.

http://www.scienceda...10906085220.htm

The key would be to have a stack that affects the various brain areas.

OT:There has been a general assumption that anxiety is a disorder due to hypersensitivity. But I have never acknowledged myself as a sensitive person (I am a anxiety sufferer) instead I have always felt emotionally undeveloped and that my emotional radar is something else rather then being emotional or sensitive.

I found this article which confirms my theory. This is highly interesting!

http://www.scienceda...11220133707.htm

#5 Raptor87

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:46 AM

Forgot to post this. The cost of anxiety!

http://www.scienceda...90623090713.htm

Edited by Brainfogged, 07 January 2012 - 05:46 AM.


#6 SATANICAT

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:09 AM

Lithium should help. On days when I take lithium, public speaking is as though I'm simply holding a conversation. Days without lithium can end up being a nervous wreck.

#7 absent minded

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:16 AM

Lithium should help. On days when I take lithium, public speaking is as though I'm simply holding a conversation. Days without lithium can end up being a nervous wreck.


What type do you take, how much do you take (the weight of the entire compound on the product label), and how do you dose it (morning? twice daily? empty or full stomach? before bed?)

#8 Thorsten3

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:54 AM

If the notroopics you currently take aren't having the required benefits for you I doubt whether there are going to be many others that might make a difference.

Some have said that methylene blue can have good effects on their anxiety/nerves. I also tried afobazole a while back and with chronic use it seemed to have benefits.

#9 dreth7

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:44 PM

What is your lithium source? I cant say I have ever delved into lithium research.

#10 Ampa-omega

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:32 PM

what do you guys think would be the best nootropic for anxiolytic awareness (or alertness) not to fall asleep but to be aware, alert and calm?

#11 Justchill

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:45 PM

what do you guys think would be the best nootropic for anxiolytic awareness (or alertness) not to fall asleep but to be aware, alert and calm?


phenibut, hands down.
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#12 summer stars

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:08 PM

I recommend phenibut as well, it really isn't something you can use daily due to very quick tolerance but for a once in a while thing, it is great. This is a little late to be looking for something, though. You should have given yourself more time to test out different supplements before the big day. I'm sure you're not planning to do this, but just in case...don't try anything brand new on the day you interview :)

Edited by summer stars, 13 January 2012 - 05:08 PM.


#13 absent minded

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:44 PM

Lithium should help. On days when I take lithium, public speaking is as though I'm simply holding a conversation. Days without lithium can end up being a nervous wreck.


I found this book from google,

A paragraph on page 471 : http://books.google....content&f=false

agrees with this anecdotal :-D

Attached Files


Edited by absent minded, 13 January 2012 - 09:47 PM.

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#14 SkepticFrank

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:15 AM

There's a pretty good thread on reddit about this - http://www.reddit.co...and_depression/

L-theanine seems like a go-to for anxiety, no withdrawals, no sedation and it can actually increase focus when taken with caffeine.

#15 SkepticFrank

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:41 AM

There are some good posts on reddit about anxiolytic nootropics - http://www.reddit.co...and_depression/ & http://www.reddit.co...y_disorder_any/

L-theanine seems to be a clear winner given it doesn't have withdrawal symptoms, it doesn't sedate and when taken with caffeine it can increase focus.

Edited by SkepticFrank, 14 January 2012 - 12:48 AM.


#16 hooter

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:56 AM

Another vote for Theanine supplements and lemon balm. Although I've read unsourced information that lemon balm can have negative side effects on sexual organs (whatever the fuck that means). If anyone has any information on that I'd appreciate it. I'd really want to continue taking it, since it has some amazing effects such as extreme antioxidant activity and radiation protection:

Recent research found a daily dose of the tea reduced oxidative stress status in radiology staff that were exposed to persistent low-dose radiation during work. After only 30 days of taking the tea daily researchers found Lemon balm tea resulted in a significant improvement in plasma levels of catalase, superoxide dismutase, and glutathione peroxidase and a marked reduction in plasma DNA damage, myeloperoxidase, and lipid peroxidation.[22]

#17 protoject

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:31 AM

Bacopa and Ashwaghanda are likely better options than Theanine (the others I dont know but from what I read about Phenibut, I would stay away from it at all costs) they are less sedating (still sedating though) and more overall feel good (Bacopa for one has some limited studies finding definite antidepressant properties).


Agreed with nupi on avoiding phenibut. has the potential to cause more problems than to help.
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#18 ZRTMWA

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:38 PM

Sorry I don't understand your question. You want a supplement that will keep you calm and focused during the interview days or for studying? Rescue Remedy products are pretty good for warding off panic, lowering my heart rate and generally keeping me calm.

#19 ScienceGuy

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:42 PM

Bacopa and Ashwaghanda are likely better options than Theanine (the others I dont know but from what I read about Phenibut, I would stay away from it at all costs) they are less sedating (still sedating though) and more overall feel good (Bacopa for one has some limited studies finding definite antidepressant properties).


Agreed with nupi on avoiding phenibut. has the potential to cause more problems than to help.


THIRDED. You want to stay well clear of all GABA receptor agonists, and that includes PHENIBUT

#20 ScienceGuy

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 06:53 PM

Background: (Long time lurker, first time poster)

I first began dabbling with nootropics back in September and have had decent results to date. My current stack consists of priacetam, cdp choline, alcar, fish oil, PS, lions mane, bacopa, and gotu kola. Intermittently I use sulbutiamine, picamilon, aniracetam, huperzine-A, and pyritinol.

Anxyolitic Concern:

I do not deem myself a nervous person by any means. However, coming up in a month are my dual admission med school interviews. They are guaranteed admission to pre-med and med school at selected universities. I have been reviewing typical med school interview questions daily and am trying to build confidence the natural way. I am looking for anything that would give me an edge over my competition. The process is very selective and my competition is by no means lacking intellectual capacity. Are there any supplements that would really help me stay calm and focused on the big days? I have heard the racetams are very anxyiolitc, but being a normally collected person I have never noticed their effects.

Thanks for the time guys!


I recommend MAGNESIUM, and specifically the MALATE form.

I also strongly advise that you AVOID any and all things where the mechanism of action is that of GABA RECEPTOR AGONISM (which induce down-regulation of the GABA receptors); this includes BENZODIAZEPINES, PHENIBUT, PICAMILON etc...

FYI - MAGNESIUM's ANXIOLYTIC effects are primarily due to is mechanism of action as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST; regarding which you might find this medical research paper to be of interest: Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety: At the interface between cognition and emotion ;)

Keep up the lurking! :laugh:

Edited by ScienceGuy, 14 January 2012 - 06:56 PM.


#21 ScienceGuy

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:01 PM

what do you guys think would be the best nootropic for anxiolytic awareness (or alertness) not to fall asleep but to be aware, alert and calm?


PIRACETAM (High enough dose) and possibly NEFIRACETAM ;)

Edited by ScienceGuy, 14 January 2012 - 07:01 PM.


#22 Ampa-omega

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:28 PM

funny that piracetam is an agonist or positive modulator on nmda receptor so it should bring potential for anxiety right?

regarding sleep
? anything thats non gaba that works? would taking gaba in few gramsitself be a bad thing?

thoughts on taurine?

#23 ScienceGuy

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:52 PM

funny that piracetam is an agonist or positive modulator on nmda receptor so it should bring potential for anxiety right?


Yes, at lower dosages maybe; however, at HIGH doses PIRACETAM has been shown to POTENTIATE NMDA receptors, and in fact to increase NMDA receptor density by 20%, which would in fact yield an ANXIOLYTIC response.

Which is why I stated "HIGH ENOUGH DOSE" in brackets after the PIRACETAM in my posting ;)

Incidentally this is a primary reason WHY I take the dosage of PIRACETAM that I do, in that I am seeking to repair some of the damage to my NMDA receptors caused by my BORRELIOSIS (A.K.A. LYME DISEASE)...

#24 protoject

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 01:04 AM

Bacopa and Ashwaghanda are likely better options than Theanine (the others I dont know but from what I read about Phenibut, I would stay away from it at all costs) they are less sedating (still sedating though) and more overall feel good (Bacopa for one has some limited studies finding definite antidepressant properties).


Agreed with nupi on avoiding phenibut. has the potential to cause more problems than to help.


THIRDED. You want to stay well clear of all GABA receptor agonists, and that includes PHENIBUT



Thank you, thank you and thank you!!! I'll even <b>FOURTH</b> that notion just for clarification....

Edited by protoject, 15 January 2012 - 01:05 AM.

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#25 ScienceGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:20 AM

Bacopa and Ashwaghanda are likely better options than Theanine (the others I dont know but from what I read about Phenibut, I would stay away from it at all costs) they are less sedating (still sedating though) and more overall feel good (Bacopa for one has some limited studies finding definite antidepressant properties).


Agreed with nupi on avoiding phenibut. has the potential to cause more problems than to help.


THIRDED. You want to stay well clear of all GABA receptor agonists, and that includes PHENIBUT



Thank you, thank you and thank you!!! I'll even <b>FOURTH</b> that notion just for clarification....


You're welcome. ;)

Keep up the good work! :-D

#26 ScienceGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:50 AM

would taking gaba in few gramsitself be a bad thing?


YES.
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#27 ScienceGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:11 AM

thoughts on taurine?


TAURINE is also a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST so I would steer well clear of it.

Furthermore, TAURINE stimulates the secretion of ADDITIONAL STOMACH ACID which leads to the formation of GASTRIC AND DUODENAL ULCERS with prolonged use, which is yet another reason to steer well clear of it.

Here's some information on TAURINE'S GABA RECEPTOR ACTIVITY which you may find of interest:

J Biomed Sci. 2010 Aug 24;17 Suppl 1:S14.

Pharmacological characterization of GABAA receptors in taurine-fed mice.

L'Amoreaux WJ, Marsillo A, El Idrissi A.

Source
Department of Biology, College of Staten Island, 2800 Victory Blvd, Staten Island, NY 10314, USA. William.Lamoreaux@csi.cuny.edu

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Taurine is one of the most abundant free amino acids especially in excitable tissues, with wide physiological actions. Chronic supplementation of taurine in drinking water to mice increases brain excitability mainly through alterations in the inhibitory GABAergic system. These changes include elevated expression level of glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD) and increased levels of GABA. Additionally we reported that GABAA receptors were down regulated with chronic administration of taurine. Here, we investigated pharmacologically the functional significance of decreased / or change in subunit composition of the GABAA receptors by determining the threshold for picrotoxin-induced seizures. Picrotoxin, an antagonist of GABAA receptors that blocks the channels while in the open state, binds within the pore of the channel between the beta2 and beta3 subunits. These are the same subunits to which GABA and presumably taurine binds.

METHODS:
Two-month-old male FVB/NJ mice were subcutaneously injected with picrotoxin (5 mg kg-1) and observed for a) latency until seizures began, b) duration of seizures, and c) frequency of seizures. For taurine treatment, mice were either fed taurine in drinking water (0.05%) or injected (43 mg/kg) 15 min prior to picrotoxin injection.

RESULTS:
We found that taurine-fed mice are resistant to picrotoxin-induced seizures when compared to age-matched controls, as measured by increased latency to seizure, decreased occurrence of seizures and reduced mortality rate. In the picrotoxin-treated animals, latency and duration were significantly shorter than in taurine-treated animas. Injection of taurine 15 min before picrotoxin significantly delayed seizure onset, as did chronic administration of taurine in the diet. Further, taurine treatment significantly increased survival rates compared to the picrotoxin-treated mice.

CONCLUSIONS:
We suggest that the elevated threshold for picrotoxin-induced seizures in taurine-fed mice is due to the reduced binding sites available for picrotoxin binding due to the reduced expression of the beta subunits of the GABAA receptor. The delayed effects of picrotoxin after acute taurine injection may indicate that the two molecules are competing for the same binding site on the GABAA receptor. Thus, taurine-fed mice have a functional alteration in the GABAergic system. These include: increased GAD expression, increased GABA levels, and changes in subunit composition of the GABAA receptors. Such a finding is relevant in conditions where agonists of GABAA receptors, such as anesthetics, are administered.

PMID: 20804588

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Medical News T. 2010 Jan 18

Scientists Close In On Taurine's Activity In The Brain

Dr. Minerva Yue, Dr. Angelo Keramidas, Dr. Peter A. Goldstein, Dr. Dev Chandra, Dr. Gregg E. Homanics

Source: U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH)

Taurine is one of the most plentiful amino acids in the human brain, but neuroscientists are still puzzled by just how brain cells put it to use. Now, a team of researchers at Weill Cornell Medical College in New York City has uncovered a prime site of activity for the molecule, bringing them closer to solving that mystery.

"We have discovered that taurine is a strong activator of what are known as GABA receptors in a regulatory area of the brain called the thalamus," says study senior author Dr. Neil L. Harrison, professor of pharmacology and pharmacology in anesthesiology at Weill Cornell Medical College. "We had discovered these receptors two years ago and showed that they interact with a neurotransmitter called gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) -- the brain's key inhibitory transmitter -- that is also involved in brain development. It seems that taurine shares these receptors."

The finding is a surprise and opens the door to a better understanding of taurine's impact on the brain, the researchers report in this month's issue of the Journal of Neuroscience.

And while the amino acid is made naturally by the body, it's also a much-touted ingredient in so-called "energy drinks" such as Red Bull. "Its inclusion in these supplements is a little puzzling, because our research would suggest that instead of being a pick-me-up, the taurine actually would have more of a sedative effect on the brain," Dr. Harrison says.

Still, the prime focus of the new study was simply to find a site for the neurological activity of taurine; such a site has been missing despite many years of study.

"Scientists have long questioned whether taurine might act on an as-yet-undiscovered receptor of its own," notes lead researcher Dr. Fan Jia, postdoctoral scientist in the Department of Anesthesiology. "But after some recent work in our lab, we ended up zeroing in on this population of GABA receptors in the thalamus."

The thalamus, located deep in the brain's center, is involved in what neuroscientists call "behavioral state control," helping to regulate transitions between sleep and wakefulness, for example. "It's like a railway junction, controlling information traffic between the brainstem, the senses and the executive functions in the cortex," Dr. Harrison explains. "When you're sleeping, the thalamus is discharging slowly and isolates the cortex from sensory input. But when you're awake, the thalamus allows information from the sensory system to activate the cortex."

Investigating further, the researchers exposed thin slices of thalamic tissue from the brains of mice to concentrations of taurine that were similar to what might be found in the human brain.

"We found that taurine is extraordinarily active on this population of GABA receptors in the thalamus," Dr. Harrison says. "It came as a bit of a surprise that the same receptor was used by both taurine and GABA. Nevertheless, finding taurine's receptor has been like discovering the 'missing link' in taurine biology."

Of course, the question of what taurine actually does in the brain remains unanswered for now. "Unraveling that mystery is the prime goal of that research, and that's where we're headed next." Dr. Harrison says.

There's already one leading theory: "GABA is important for forging new cell-to-cell connections within the developing brain, and because taurine shares a receptor with GABA, it, too, may play a role in neurological development," the researcher speculates.

And what about the energy-drink connection? "Remarkably little is known about the effects of energy drinks on the brain. We can't even be sure how much of the taurine in the drink actually reaches the brain!" Dr. Harrison says. "Assuming that some of it does get absorbed, the taurine -- which, if anything, seems to have a sedating effect on the brain -- may actually play a role in the 'crash' people often report after drinking these highly caffeinated beverages. People have speculated that the post-Red Bull low was simply a caffeine rebound effect, but it might also be due to the taurine content."
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#28 nupi

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:50 AM

That might explain why I seem to like Taurine. It does not feel like a strong GABAergic but some effect seems to be there...

#29 ScienceGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

Anxyolitic Concern:

..I am looking for anything that would give me an edge over my competition. The process is very selective and my competition is by no means lacking intellectual capacity. Are there any supplements that would really help me stay calm and focused on the big days? I have heard the racetams are very anxyiolitc, but being a normally collected person I have never noticed their effects.

Thanks for the time guys!


I can also highly recommend the following (in no particular order):

1) GARUM ARMORICUM EXTRACT

2) PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE

3) GEROVITAL H3 (via IM INJECTION is best, as opposed to per orally)

All of these are substantiated EFFECTIVE and SAFE Nootropic Anxiolytics; and you can adminster all of them concurrently if you so wish. ;)
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#30 SATANICAT

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:07 PM

Sorry for the late reply. I usually only take 5mg or Lithium Aspartate or Orotate they seem to have the same effect.





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