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Racism, Paul & Slavery in the South

ron paul abraham lincoln slavery racism

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8 replies to this topic

#1 JChief

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:10 PM


Slavery was what the civil war was fought over. Or at least that's what was reinforced in my schooling. Have another look at Lincoln. Paul does get it, in my opinion. Watch the video here. Comments welcome.

#2 niner

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:34 PM

Um, this seems like more of the crazy train. Are there any non-fringe historians (i.e., Mises Inst guys don't count...) that would buy this? It looks like a propaganda video, like oh, the poor South, the Union was so mean to them. I think there were some casualties on the Union side, too.

#3 JChief

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:33 AM

So good to hear from niner... niner I can always count on you to disagree. :) I read The Real Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenzo awhile back.. it's not just Mises guys. And Mises guys DO count. I'd seriously like to know why you just spewed that filth. You'll either agree or vehemently disagree. Read Lincoln's own words you turkey. Perhaps me and you would have been on opposite sides in that battle. You are wrong. These opinions are indeed in the minority. Don't let that scare you.. of course there were casualties on the North side goofball. This was about the CAUSE of the war. What it was really fought over! Quit looking for consensus and think for yourself. The propaganda is the widely held belief. You attacked Raymond Francis when he quite plainly spelled out how to prevent disease. And reverse cancer. And you thought it was the rambling of a supplement peddler. I applaud you for trying to keep your feet on the ground and not get caught up in hype. Dare to think a different way. Engage in cognitive dissonance for once.

Edited by JChief, 06 February 2012 - 08:54 AM.


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#4 JChief

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

Niner go ahead and admit it: you think Ron Paul is a nutjob. You are an enemy to the republic if so.

#5 rwac

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:41 AM

Was Lincoln racist? Possibly, but more likely he was a man, and a politician of his time. If the voters are racist, the politicians will be too.

Plus, it was pretty much the South which started the civil war, seceding because Lincoln won the presidency and confiscating federal properties ....

#6 JChief

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:54 AM

This was all Lincoln's fault! If he hadn't been elected, the South wouldn't have seceded; and the Northern capitalists would not now be in this mess.

So as President-elect Lincoln prepared to take over the presidency, he was in a world of hurt. He had the trappings of office--but not the powerbase to support him safely in office against the slings and arrows of his outrageous political-enemies. Both Seward and Chase had well-established powerbases (financial backers, newspapers, magazines, personal political-organizations, friends in Congress, etc.). Both of them badly wanted Lincoln's job. Both of them merely awaited the first opportunity to spring a political trap on him; then subject him to deadly public-ridicule; and thereafter cut him off at the knees.

Given time, Lincoln--who would, after all, occupy the presidency--could weld together a formidable powerbase of his own; but right at the beginning of his term he was perilously vulnerable. He MUST now have the support of the Northern capitalists.

Lincoln was a Whig masquerading as a Republican, because that was now the only game in town. He didn't care anything about the slavery issue; he preferred to temporize with the abolitionists. But he couldn't temporize with the Northern capitalists. He would have to drag the South back into the Union immediately, or he'd (figuratively) be shot out of the saddle and discredited very quickly; then Seward or Chase would really be running the country; and Lincoln could forget all about being reelected in 1864. That was unthinkable. But there was no way Lincoln or anyone else in the Republican party could possibly talk the Southern states back into the Union at this stage of the game; so he would have to conquer them in war.
(He assumed it would be a 90-day war, which the Union Army would win in one battle.)

If you read Lincoln's first inaugural-address with any care at all, you'll see that it was simply a declaration of war against the South. It was also filled with lies and specious reasoning. In 1861, the official government-charter for the U.S. was the U.S. Constitution. In writing it, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 (some of the most-canny politicians in the country) had pointedly omitted from it the "perpetual union" clause which had been a main feature of the unworkable Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union--the U.S.-government charter which had preceded the Constitution.

Under the Articles, no state could secede lawfully unless all states seceded simultaneously. But the Constitution--which Lincoln had just taken an oath to uphold--did not contain that clause (or any other like it); so any state could secede lawfully at any time. And the Southern states did secede lawfully. Honest Abe flat-out lied when he said that was not so in his inaugural address; and he subsequently used his blatant lie to slaughter 623,000 Americans and Confederates--primarily in order to perpetuate himself in political office.

Lincoln had said he would go to war to "preserve the Union." But in order to start the war, he would somehow have to maneuver the South into firing the first shots, because Congress did not want war and would not declare war of its own volition.

The most-likely hot-spot in which Lincoln could start his war was Charleston Harbor, where shots had already been fired in anger under the Buchanan administration. But the newly-elected governor of South Carolina, Francis Pickens, saw the danger--that Lincoln might, as an excuse, send a force of U.S. Navy warships to Charleston Harbor supposedly to bring food to Maj Anderson's Union force holed up in Fort Sumter. So Gov Pickens opened negotiations with Maj Anderson, and concluded a deal permitting Anderson to send boats safely to the market in Charleston once a week, where Anderson's men would be allowed to buy whatever victuals they wished.
(This arrangement remained in effect until a day or so before the U.S. Navy warships arrived at Charleston). Maj Anderson wrote privately to friends, saying that he hoped Lincoln would not use Fort Sumter as the excuse to start a war, by sending the U.S. Navy to resupply it.

Before his inauguration, Lincoln sent a secret message to Gen Winfield Scott, the U.S. general-in-chief, asking him to make preparations to relieve the Union forts in the South soon after Lincoln took office. Lincoln knew all along what he was going to do.

President Jefferson Davis sent peace commissioners to Washington to negotiate a treaty with the Lincoln administration. Lincoln refused to meet with them; and he refused to permit Secretary of State Seward to meet with them.

After Lincoln assumed the presidency, his principal generals recommended the immediate evacuation of Maj Anderson's men from Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor--which was now located on foreign soil. To resupply it by force at this point would be a deliberate act-of-war against the C.S.A.

It turned out that Lincoln's postmaster general, Montgomery Blair, had a brother-in law, Gustavus V. Fox, who was a retired Navy-captain and wanted to get back into action. Fox had come up with a plan for resupplying Fort Sumter which would force the Confederates to fire the first shots--under circumstances which would make them take the blame for the war. Lincoln sent Fox down to Fort Sumter to talk with Maj Anderson about the plan; but Anderson wanted no part of it.

Lincoln had Fox pitch the plan to his Cabinet twice. The first time, the majority said that Fox's plan would start a war and were unenthusiastic about it. But the second time, the Cabinet members got Lincoln's pointed message, and capitulated.

Meanwhile, Congress got wind of the plan. Horrified, they called Gen Scott and others to testify about it; Scott and the other witnesses said they wanted no part of the move against the Confederacy in Charleston; and nor did Congress. Congress demanded from Lincoln--as was Congress's right--Fox's report on Maj Anderson's reaction to the plan. Lincoln flatly and unconstitutionally refused to hand it over to them.

Lincoln sent to Secretary Cameron (for transmittal to Secretary Welles) orders in his own handwriting (!) to make the warships Pocahantas and Pawnee and the armed-cutter Harriet Lane ready for sailing, along with the passenger ship Baltic--which would be used as a troop ship, and two ocean-going tugboats to aid the ships in traversing the tricky shallow harbor-entrance at Charleston. This naval force was to transport 500 extra Union-soldiers to reinforce Maj Anderson's approximately-86-man force at Fort Sumter--along with huge quantities of munitions, food, and other supplies.

The Confederacy would, of course, resist this invasion--in the process firing upon the U.S. flag. The unarmed tugs would, of necessity, enter the harbor first, whereupon they would likely be fired upon by the C.S.A., giving Lincoln the best-possible propaganda to feed to the Northern newspapers, which would then rally the North to his "cause."

Lincoln sent orders for the Union naval-force to time its sailing so as to enter Charleston Harbor on 11 or 12 April. Next, Lincoln sent a courier to deliver an ultimatum to Gov Pickens on 8 April, saying that Lincoln intended to resupply Fort Sumter peaceably or by force. There was no mistaking the intent of that message.

Lincoln had set the perfect trap. He had given President Davis just enough time to amass his forces and fire upon the U.S. Navy. But if Davis acquiesced instead, Lincoln need merely begin sending expeditionary forces to recapture all of the former Union-forts in the South now occupied by Confederate forces; sooner or later Davis would have to fight; and the more forts he allowed Lincoln to recapture in the interim, the weaker would be the military position of the C.S.A. As a practical matter, Davis was left with no choice.

Accordingly, the C.S.A., when informed that the U.S. Navy was en route, demanded that Maj Anderson surrender the fort forthwith. Anderson refused; Beauregard's artillery bombarded Fort Sumter into junk (miraculously without loss of life during the bombardment); and Anderson then surrendered with honor intact. The U.S. Navy arrived during the bombardment--but because elements of the force had been delayed for various reasons, did not join in the fight. The Navy was allowed to transport Anderson's men back to the U.S.

Thereafter Lincoln wrote to Fox, pronouncing the mission a great success. Lincoln ended his letter by saying, "You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result."

Folks, that ought to be plain enough for anybody to understand.

#7 JChief

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:50 AM

I'm still pissed at you niner for asking me for recipes from that cookbook and I typed them up by hand and you didn't even thank me or give me an up vote or anything. So yeah I'm a little bitter towards you.

#8 niner

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:12 AM

I'm still pissed at you niner for asking me for recipes from that cookbook and I typed them up by hand and you didn't even thank me or give me an up vote or anything. So yeah I'm a little bitter towards you.


Sorry JChief. People here do things to help the community, and that was a help. Thanks for that, even if it's belated.

#9 JChief

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:44 PM

I'm still pissed at you niner for asking me for recipes from that cookbook and I typed them up by hand and you didn't even thank me or give me an up vote or anything. So yeah I'm a little bitter towards you.


Sorry JChief. People here do things to help the community, and that was a help. Thanks for that, even if it's belated.


I accept your apology and I hope you'll accept mine in return for the unbridled accusasions.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ron paul, abraham lincoln, slavery, racism

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