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Vitamin D sleep experiment

vitamin d zeo

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#1 gwern

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:12 PM


Hi everyone, I recently finished up a 40-day double-blind randomized placebo-controlled trial on whether/how Vitamin D affected my sleep (as measured by a Zeo); summary: vitamin D hurt my sleep when taken at night.

You can find the background & literature search, experiment setup, data (tabular & raw), and statistical analysis (in R) here: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#vitamin-d

I figure there are so many people here using vitamin D that someone must be taking it at or near bedtime, and they really should hear about this.
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#2 Krell

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

Interesting!

I have been taking 5000IU D3 for 5 or 6 days per week just before bed, and as I think back, it seems that my sleep events such as waking up and not being able to get back to sleep have been worse after taking D3.

So last night I did not take D3 in the evening and slept quite well. Only one data point, but I will definitely change my D3 schedule to see if this is confirmed longer term.

Thanks again!

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#3 niner

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:02 AM

Gwern, this is a really great observation. You might want to do a trial with morning D as well. I think you should publish this.

My photobiology/chronobiology hypothesis is that we normally get D from sunlight, and we are not supposed to fall asleep when the sun is still bright. The blast of D may be acting as a signal that it's daytime. I've been taking D at dinner time; I think I'll switch to breakfast.
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#4 Matt

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:00 PM

Never had a problem taking vitamin D at bedtime...
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#5 gwern

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:36 PM

Gwern, this is a really great observation. You might want to do a trial with morning D as well. I think you should publish this.


I've already started the morning trial; I'll finish in 50-70 days. Is there anywhere that publishes material like this?

Never had a problem taking vitamin D at bedtime...


How would you know? Sleep is pretty variable and taking vitamin D isn't the first explanation one jumps to after a bad night's sleep; look at how many good nights I had on vitamin D. Never the less...

Edited by gwern, 19 February 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#6 Matt

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:53 PM

I need to find some time to read all of your experiment. Interesting though ;) I do take my Vitamin D in the morning usually, however, I've taken it at night and can't recall any problems. Perhaps you're right though. :)

#7 nupi

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:20 AM

I am taking it in the morning and before sleep. Does not look like it affects sleep majorly so far (I am not so sure how much trust I give into the data that comes out of my Zeo either way)

#8 brokenportal

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:27 PM

Here is a discussion where we are working out how much D3 to put into the new Longecity supplement: http://www.longecity...amin-d3-amount/

#9 niner

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:54 PM

I am taking it in the morning and before sleep. Does not look like it affects sleep majorly so far (I am not so sure how much trust I give into the data that comes out of my Zeo either way)


There's no need to take it multiple times a day because it has such a long half life. Just take it all in the morning. I used to take it with my other lipid-solubles at dinner time, but I've moved D to the morning.

#10 hippocampus

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:21 PM

What exactly is the half-life of vitamin D (I'm asking because I read this numerous times but nobody told the exact number.)

#11 Hebbeh

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:37 PM

I am taking it in the morning and before sleep. Does not look like it affects sleep majorly so far (I am not so sure how much trust I give into the data that comes out of my Zeo either way)


There's no need to take it multiple times a day because it has such a long half life. Just take it all in the morning. I used to take it with my other lipid-solubles at dinner time, but I've moved D to the morning.


If it has a long half life, why will it matter what time of day that it is supplemented? I've seen half life numbers of 2 weeks up to 2 months quoted in research literature. Even at the lower 2 weeks, a few hours of supplementation time will have virtually no effect on blood serum levels. This just doen't make sense. I've been tested with levels as high as 136 ng/ml and I slept like a baby as usual.

#12 HaloTeK

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:57 PM

Hi everyone, I recently finished up a 40-day double-blind randomized placebo-controlled trial on whether/how Vitamin D affected my sleep (as measured by a Zeo); summary: vitamin D hurt my sleep when taken at night.

You can find the background & literature search, experiment setup, data (tabular & raw), and statistical analysis (in R) here: http://www.gwern.net/Zeo#vitamin-d

I figure there are so many people here using vitamin D that someone must be taking it at or near bedtime, and they really should hear about this.


I figure you guys are familiar with Seth Roberts blog? http://blog.sethroberts.net/

He's been blogging about timing on vitamin D supplements for months now.

The simple consensus, people seem to sleep better when taking vitamin D in the morning vs at night.

#13 gwern

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

I figure you guys are familiar with Seth Roberts blog? http://blog.sethroberts.net/

He's been blogging about timing on vitamin D supplements for months now.

The simple consensus, people seem to sleep better when taking vitamin D in the morning vs at night.


I am... Linked a number of anecdotes in the first sentence, even. The consensus may be right, but it's based on really crappy anecdotes, and assuming there's anything to it, it may just be comparing baseline sleep against sleep-damaged-by-vitamin-d-at-night. To know, you'd need sleep unaffected by vitamin D, sleep affected by vitamin D at night, and sleep affected by vitamin D at morning. Will there be 3 distinct averages, or just 2? That's why I started a vitamin D in the morning experiment a little while ago. We'll see how it goes.

#14 niner

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 05:17 AM

If it has a long half life, why will it matter what time of day that it is supplemented? I've seen half life numbers of 2 weeks up to 2 months quoted in research literature. Even at the lower 2 weeks, a few hours of supplementation time will have virtually no effect on blood serum levels. This just doen't make sense. I've been tested with levels as high as 136 ng/ml and I slept like a baby as usual.


Good question. It might have something to do with its equilibration between different compartments. Maybe some organ is uniquely susceptible to rapidly rising concentrations, like popping a pill or being in the sun. It certainly makes mechanistic sense that there could be a chronobiological connection, since in the natural state, we would get a bolus of D from the mid-day sun. Considering that and the sleep experiments and the anecdotes, and the fact that there's no cost or downside to taking it in the morning instead of night, I see no reason not to do it. I'd still like to know if it's a real effect or not, but at this point I'd have to err on the side of it being real, if perhaps small.

#15 Lufega

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

I started using it in the AM instead of PM a few days ago, since I figured it should mimic sunlight exposure. I did noticed that it seemed to boost my morning pick me up supps. That said, I have been problems with staying up late but I never made the Vit D. connection.

#16 gwern

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

My followup: http://www.gwern.net...d-at-morn-helps

Improves morning mood.

#17 Logic

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:21 PM

As Vit D is normally produced by sunlight its a daytime vitamin... natrurally..! :cool:

#18 GerberDominik

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:01 AM

You can find just a small amount of food items elements that include organic vitamin D. A number of nutritional sources of vitamin D are generally meat lean meats, meaty section of the fish, egg yolks, fish oil and also dairy products. For that reason, non-meat eaters are in higher risk to get vitamin D insufficiency resulting from reduced nutritional ingestion of vitamin D in food. Nursing babies could get this concern since vitamin D amounts in mother's milk is extremely reduced.



Get in touch with poisonous ingredients, damaging chemical compounds, unwanted effects of particular drugs could also bring about this sort of problem which the amount of vitamin D is less than the regular amount. Bodily situations for instance tone of the dermis or even volume of human body fat can also be to blame for low level vitamin D. Darkish complexion may also be the reason of minimal vitamin D amounts within the physique.

#19 dear mrclock

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:35 PM

why would people be taking vitamin d at bedtime ? thats strange and kind of stupid
someone asked about bioavailibity of vitamin d, from medical books i have read, it seems vitamin d is stored in the liver for few months more or less depending on environmental conditions, stress, disease etc. why would people be taking large doses of vitamin d if you are healthy ?

gwern, i was wondering to ask about your site, do you do only experiments related to sleep ? you should probably review more supplements out there that are related or even non-related to sleep.
also, gwern which vitamin d supplement do you use ? a lot of crappy brands out there, most of them are either not as absorbable or effective. in my experience, any vitamin d in capsule form as powder is just garbage. it has to be softgel with actual oil for absorption. it seems the one you take works for you, so unless you have a reason not sharing the brand, please do tell.

#20 hav

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:23 AM

Must be a learned response from my youth when I lived down the shore, went to work on the boardwalk from 6 pm till midnight, then went out, and spent much of the next day on the beach, snoozing between rides to catch up on my sleep. In my old age I don't get as much surfing in. But I get drowsy a while after taking D3. For me it works better around dinnertime. If I take it in the morning, I invariably end up wanting to take a midday nap.

Howard

#21 dear mrclock

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:52 AM

hav, maybe its combination of things you take it with or the form type of supplement you use that has some faults. this "drowsy" feeling from it, cannot be that noticible unless you have some bad reaction to something else either in combo, quality or too large doses and sensitive response

#22 hav

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

For me, its more likely long term conditioning. Years of snoozing while sunbathing. Experiencing tiredness following long exposures. All that. I don't do that much any more so taking D3 is my closest substitute. I don't really take a very strong dose. 1,000 IU in an oil softgel (Now brand) once a day. And I sleep like a log.

Fwiw, my wife takes the same softgels 2x a day and does not seem to experience any sleep effect whether she takes it with breakfast or dinner which is typically around 7 pm for us. She has a pill-taking aversion, btw, so prefers to take 1 at breakfast and the other at dinner to minimize the number at any one time.

Howard

#23 niner

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:57 AM

Fwiw, my wife takes the same softgels 2x a day and does not seem to experience any sleep effect whether she takes it with breakfast or dinner which is typically around 7 pm for us. She has a pill-taking aversion, btw, so prefers to take 1 at breakfast and the other at dinner to minimize the number at any one time.


Your wife could use 2000 IU softgels instead, then she'd only have to take one. Or she could just skip the evening dose. Depends what she really needs to hit the level she wants. 1000/d would be plenty for me, but people differ.

#24 hav

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

Here's an update. Right after my last post my wife and I doubled our dosages by switching to the 2000 IU softgels and decided to try taking them all at once in the am instead of splitting them into am and pm doses. The change seemed to increase my dream activity during the night. To avoid the midday sleepiness I previously experienced, I've been taking my am stack around 6 am then going back to sleep for about a half hour and I noticed very little dream activity during that snooze period. Makes me wonder it the observed effect on sleep actually relates to an impact on rem activity. Seems consistent with my recollection of sunbathing... I don't think I ever recall experiencing vivid dreaming while doing that either.

Also, I just got bloodwork done the other day. My total D25 OH was reported at 37 ng/ml. The reported indicated a reference range of 30-100. Are my levels sufficient?

Howard

#25 knightly

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 09:34 PM

+REP

 

Great post and test , thank you !!!1!


holy jesus !!!!

 

your website..... DUDE.

 

 

DUDE.

 

NICE ,,,.... N I C E !!!



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#26 oneshot2shots

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 10:04 PM

Have been sleeping well the last week, wondering why it was as my sleep has always been very variable. I'm pretty sure its the 2000iu I take in the morning, I wasn't actually aware that D3 affected sleep at all.







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