18 replies to this topic

[DR01D]

I've been on CR for a couple of years and I wonder if everyone experiences it the same way.

Most of the day I'm slightly hungry. I usually have the feeling that I could eat a little more. This is often true even after meals. I've grown used to this feeling so it's not really unpleasant. The only thing that keeps my hunger at this low level is the huge pile of raw vegetables I eat twice per day. It seems to keep my digestive system relatively full without bulking up on calories.

Despite the slight feeling of hunger my weight is stable at 150 pounds. This tells me that my brain WANTS to eat more than my body NEEDS to eat. Maybe on some level food is equivelant to sex. Our brains constantly remind us to have sex but we biologically need it at a much lower frequency.

Edited by DR01D, 24 February 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[scottknl]

I agree with your assessment. My feelings are pretty much the same after a couple months shy of 3 years CR. One additional observation is that I think the optimal nutrition part of CRON is extremely important in managing the hunger cravings. When I let the nutrition slip a bit, then I find that my hunger increases quite a bit.

Also exercise and keeping busy helps enormously. When I'm busy, then the hunger just disappears into the background and is only rekindled near feeding time.

I find that I enjoy my food much more since starting CR. Each taste and texture is more vibrant and alive. A few years ago, I used to wolf down my food without even thinking of it. Now each crumb and morsel of food has meaning to me.

[Michael]

I've been on CR for a couple of years and I wonder if everyone experiences it the same way. Most of the day I'm slightly hungry. I usually have the feeling that I could eat a little more. This is often true even after meals. I've grown used to this feeling so it's not really unpleasant.

I agree with your assessment. ... I think the optimal nutrition part of CRON is extremely important in managing the hunger cravings. ... I find that I enjoy my food much more since starting CR. Each taste and texture is more vibrant and alive.

"Yes to all." Nearly 12 y now. Actually, I had little to no hunger early on CR: the state you describe developed gradually almost a year into the process, in the winter.

This tells me that my brain WANTS to eat more than my body NEEDS to eat.

That is almost the very definition of CR, tho' I would say rather "my brain registers that my body WANTS to eat more than is necessary to support life." There is even evidence that the neurobiology of hunger is involved in the benefits of CR (most notably (1)). CR is an emergency state, to get thru' periods of famine, and we are programmed to end the emergency ASAP. Our systems are set up to make us fit hunter-gatherers with 30 y life expectancies, not to minimize the degenerative aging process and extend life and health to an 'unnatural' degree. While I certainly wouldn't tell anyone that they can't possibly be successfully implementing CR if they don't have this mild hunger lurking around, I think it's unlikely that many people are "really" on CR if they don't, and most people who do CR rigorously, do.

Maybe on some level food is equivelant to sex. Our brains constantly remind us to have sex but we biologically need it at a much lower frequency.

Your body doesn't biologically need sex at all, of course. But, similar to hunger, there are strong evolutionary reasons why natural selection favors a powerful drive to go get it, whether we "need" it or not.

Reference
1: 1: Minor RK, López M, Younts CM, Jones B, Pearson KJ, Anson RM, Diéguez C, de Cabo R. The arcuate nucleus and neuropeptide Y contribute to the antitumorigenic effect of calorie restriction. Aging Cell. 2011 Jun;10(3):483-92. doi: 10.1111/j.1474-9726.2011.00693.x. Epub 2011 Apr 5. PubMed PMID: 21385308; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC3094497.

Edited by Michael, 24 February 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Brett Black]

CR is an emergency state, to get thru' periods of famine, and we are programmed to end the emergency ASAP.

Are you saying that the lifespan-extending effect of caloric restriction is an evolved response to periods of famine? Cos that's considered speculation, not fact, as far as I know.

[Mind]

When I have experimented with short periods (several months) of CR, I have felt hungry most of the time, not severe hunger pains, just small nagging ones. A couple of things that help, eating the large quantities of high water weight vegetables, and keeping your mind occupied until the next meal.

[Dorho]

I've always wondered if the positive effect of mood lifting beverages like green tea on health might actually be partially to do with the fact that they make one crave less food. But yeah, i find green tea to help. Rooibos might be better taken in evening time instead of green tea because it isn't stimulating. I like hot water with fresh grated gigner too, i think it's serotonergic.

Of supplements, lithium orotate makes me crave less food but i don't like how it affects my personality, mental performance and even appearance (i look sick when taking it).

My unprofessional guess is that feeling shitty because of hunger all the time isn't exactly good for longevity.

[Matt]

I normally get hungry when it's close to meal times, maybe an or or two before, so it's not that much of a problem. My girlfriend claims that I eat like one of those starving monkeys however (seeming like I'm constantly starving). heh.

[Michael]

CR is an emergency state, to get thru' periods of famine, and we are programmed to end the emergency ASAP.

Are you saying that the lifespan-extending effect of caloric restriction is an evolved response to periods of famine? Cos that's considered speculation, not fact, as far as I know.

Ah -- sorry, I should be careful about that. To be clear, I wasn't saying that, and altho' every popular-press article on CR one reads repeats it and I used to believe it myself, it is just an hypothesis and it's not one I actually accept anymore. I simply meant that the state of an organism that is actually in a CRed state is one that ipso facto motivates it to get fed again, and that it's unlikely that many people will fail to register this fact subjectively.

My unprofessional guess is that feeling shitty because of hunger all the time isn't exactly good for longevity.

If you look back at what we've written, neither DRO1D, nor Scott, nor myself (nor anyone doing serious CR that I know of) "feels shitty because of hunger all the time." Rather, there is a general sense of mild dissatisfaction with one's state of feeding, a consciousness that one would really prefer to have eaten (or be eating) more, occasionally punctuated by stronger hunger pangs, especially shortly before anticipated meals. You do get used to it over time, and it's in my view greatly outweighed by the crispness of consciousness, stable moods, and superior health that you enjoy, but you never really feel full again -- even if, volumetrically, you're stuffed.

I normally get hungry when it's close to meal times, maybe an or or two before, so it's not that much of a problem. My girlfriend claims that I eat like one of those starving monkeys however (seeming like I'm constantly starving). heh.

Hey, Matt: I just heard 2 d ago you got yerself a lady -- and a hottie at that ! Congrats!

[Dorho]

My unprofessional guess is that feeling shitty because of hunger all the time isn't exactly good for longevity.

If you look back at what we've written, neither DRO1D, nor Scott, nor myself (nor anyone doing serious CR that I know of) "feels shitty because of hunger all the time." Rather, there is a general sense of mild dissatisfaction with one's state of feeding, a consciousness that one would really prefer to have eaten (or be eating) more, occasionally punctuated by stronger hunger pangs, especially shortly before anticipated meals. You do get used to it over time, and it's in my view greatly outweighed by the crispness of consciousness, stable moods, and superior health that you enjoy, but you never really feel full again -- even if, volumetrically, you're stuffed.

Sorry, i didn't intend to give the impression that i thought you are feeling shitty all the time. I should have elaborated that i was feeling shitty all the time at one point when i was doing CR. Then it transformed into this kind of weird mix of peacefulness and smooth energy without feeling so hungry that it would have bothered me.

EDIT: oh i actually did feel hungry, but mainly when the time to sleep was approaching. I just tried to forget that hunger by brushing and flossing my teeth and doing other kind of stuff. Then it was time for blackout because of sleeping pill. I guess the combination of the pill and my pacing of eating during the day made it possible to go to sleep hungry and not being hungry during other times of day.

Edited by Dorho, 25 February 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[DR01D]

There is even evidence that the neurobiology of hunger is involved in the benefits of CR

You're absolutely correct Michael. Ghrelin, the hormone that makes us feel hungry is a potent anti-inflammatory that protects the nervous system. It probably protects us from cancer as well.

Japan - National Institute of Neuroscience: Ghrelin: Friend or Foe for Neuroinflammation?

More recently, however, the immunosuppressive effects of ghrelin have been reported. Anti-inflammatory functions of ghrelin were first reported against T cells and macrophages in vitro (Dixit et al., 2004). And then, the immunosuppressive activity of ghrelin in vivo was shown in several animal models including bowel disease (Gonzalez-Rey et al., 2006), arthritis (Chorny et al., 2008; Granado et al., 2005) and sepsis and endotoxemia (Chorny et al., 2008; Li et al., 2004; Wu et al., 2007). In these reports, the anti-inflammatory effect of ghrelin is focused on the suppression of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1, IL-6, and TNF-alpha. Li et al. demonstrated that ghrelin attenuated TNF-alpha-induced nuclear translocation of NF-κB, indicating that blockade for activation of the transcription factor NF-κB could be a potential mechanism whereby ghrelin modulates inflammatory responses (Li et al., 2004).

In consistent with these observations, we recently demonstrated that exogenous administration of ghrelin suppressed experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE), an animal model of multiple sclerosis (Theil et al., 2009).

BTW the abstract you posted was very interesting.
The arcuate nucleus and neuropeptide Y contribute to the antitumorigenic effect of calorie restriction

If I understand it correctly the cancer benefit didn't come directly from calorie restriction per se, but the hunger associated with calorie restriction. Fascinating.

Ya know if you believe that Thomas Malthus was on the right track it does make sense that hunger, all by itself would offer health benefits.

The central theme of Malthus' work was that population growth would always overpower food supply growth, creating perpetual states of hunger, disease, and struggle.

Mother Nature assumes we'll be hungry just like it assumes we'll breath air and drink water. Maybe genes evolved that made hunger good for us.

Edited by DR01D, 26 February 2012 - 04:20 AM.

[DR01D]

One additional observation is that I think the optimal nutrition part of CRON is extremely important in managing the hunger cravings. When I let the nutrition slip a bit, then I find that my hunger increases quite a bit.

Funny you should say that. The other day I cut just 10 almonds out of my lunch and I was twice as hungry until dinner. I wonder if my body needed something in the almonds.

[scottknl]

One additional observation is that I think the optimal nutrition part of CRON is extremely important in managing the hunger cravings. When I let the nutrition slip a bit, then I find that my hunger increases quite a bit.

Funny you should say that. The other day I cut just 10 almonds out of my lunch and I was twice as hungry until dinner. I wonder if my body needed something in the almonds.

Cronometer tells all. Punch it in and let us know what was lacking!!

Cheerful and only a little bit hungry in Redmond,
KS

[Brafarality]

When I have experimented with short periods (several months) of CR, I have felt hungry most of the time, not severe hunger pains, just small nagging ones. A couple of things that help, eating the large quantities of high water weight vegetables, and keeping your mind occupied until the next meal.

Guardian? Moderator? Secretary? Excellent list of titles! While attempting to fulfill responsibilities for each position, it is important to not get too drunk with power. Kidding! Nothing youve done suggests that.
But, onto what I was going to say: I think bursts of CR are the way to go, as it seems you have done.
I think over a prolonged lifespan, CR will probably result in a long, painful decline, while possibly extending absolute lifespan.
However, sort of like longer-term fasting, intermittent bursts of CR probably have great beneficial effect.

A bunch of life extensionists are interested in the German guy who survived 2 months in his car without food and water seeing his suspended animation as some form of good thing:
Unless we are talking in spans of a few months, suspended animation on a higher complex being like a human is so harmful that I would not be surprised if this person has health problems for the rest of his life as a result of his experience.
We are too complex to be frozen in any uniform way. The differences in salinity and density within our persons over the distance of a single centimeter, never mind a whole body, is very significant so that when we are slowed arbitrarily, the unevenness of the slowing and reanimating is invariably destructive.

So, CR it up for a few months here and there. IMHO, this is best.

[TM5000]

YES!

But I am usually hungry even when I am not restricting my intake.

My brain equates survival to overeating, and I have fought this for most of my life.

[Matt]

Hey, Matt: I just heard 2 d ago you got yerself a lady -- and a hottie at that ! Congrats!

Yup I have.. Thanks! And yes she is! xD She hates aging as much as me, and totally supports SENS / anti aging too. Perfect! :D

Edited by Matt, 27 February 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[Mynona]

I am not very hungry. But I can eat 1950 kcal to stay at BMI 16. This lets me keep reasonable amounts of fat and protein (higher than any CR diet plan I've seen so far). I eat a little more carbohydrates than LCHF allows, and try to look at paleodiet for inspiration for food/ingredients. One could say my diet is a CR combination of LCHF, paleodiet and GI. But almost non grains, just slightly more than LCHF (and with low GI and often buck wheat, millet or sour dough bread with whole seeds [sorry for bad Enligsh]).

I do not freeze, do not lack in sex drive, aren't tired, don't have starvation feelings, no dizziness. I feel better than for many years, in all ways! I used to have anorexia for many years, and that felt very different, also at the BMI I have now. Then I freezed all the time, was dizzy, tired, angry, lost menstruation, lost sex drive totally. But the diet plan sure is different when eating CR, looking for health and long life, or eating anorexic, just wanting to constantly loose weight.

[DR01D]

Then I freezed all the time

That's perfectly understandable since you live in Sweden.
My grandfather is from Sweden. BRRRrrrrrrr!

I live in Arizona and own a landscaping company so I work outside. If it's below 60 degrees Fahrenheit (15 degrees Celsius) I wear long underwear. If it gets down to 40 degrees Fahrenheit I wear 2 sets of long underwear. I don't blame most of that on CR, my body is just used to warm weather. But CR may have made me a little more sensitive to cold weather.

Edited by DR01D, 23 March 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Mynona]

Most people here in Sweden, seems to freeze more than I do. i don't really know why, but I think it may be due to me beeing too lazy to warm the house up :D Most people have 22-24 degrees Celsius inside, but we have down to 14-15, 17-18 when all are home and maybe starts a fire. My body is used to handle cold maybe.

But, anorexic diet (not proper CR at all, since I had anorexia and did not think CRON then) made me freeze anyway.

Maybe me having a cold home, is a factor that let's me eat more than other CR diet people at my height, weight, age, sex and so on.

[Mind]

I live in Wisconsin, when I was doing CR during the cold season, I was cold often. It wouldn't be a BIG problem except that I like doing outdoor stuff. I had to dress with more clothes and make sure to stay active. The health benefits of CR probably outweigh the negatives of discomfort due to cold.